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I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 1:44:21 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

LOL I love something I read on the Butchmann's website years ago.
Paraphrased
A Master is not always right, but the slave does not submit to the Master's rightness, they submit to the Master.
Obedince is not contingent on the Master being right.




I pulled this out of another thread so as not to hijack.

Suppose a Master told His slave to rob a bank, spread a disease, kill someone, etc. I realized this is extreme but it leaves room for a great gray area of discussion. Where does one draw the line at following a direct order from her Master / Dominant?

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 1:48:00 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Should we assume there is no give and take in a lifestyle relationship? 
Unless someone is an absolute doormat there is still give and take.  Communication, and if
there is communication we do not blindly obey.
By blindly obeying someone I don't believe that is submission at all.
I know my dom as well as many others believe the same way.  They want a submissive with a mind
who can challenge them when needed to make them better people overall.
Yet you obey when needed as well.  Just because one asks a question does not mean they are not obeying.

Maybe it should read, Where is the line drawn between doormat and submissive?

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 1:49:03 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

Where does one draw the line at following a direct order from her Master / Dominant?

I don't draw the line. I rely on the trust that I placed in Master for him to draw the line for me.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 1:51:54 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I don't.

If I would do something, I'd do it whether someone told me to do it or not.

If I wouldn't do something, I wouldn't do it whether someone told me not to or not.

That's why making the choice to be with someone who will match with eachothers accepted limits is so important.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 12/5/2006 1:52:07 PM >

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 1:52:57 PM   
drawntothedark


Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Maybe it should read, Where is the line drawn between doormat and submissive?


I think a doormat is someone who is pretty much ready to trade.....her mind, body. soul, morals, exsistance for anyone who will show her affections, or a place by their side. I do not consider these people submissives. I feel they need therapy not a Dom.




(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 2:06:39 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		LA took the words right out of my mouth. As a thinking individual, i would not do something just because I was told to if it goes against absolutely everything I believe in. If my Domiant/Master left me or kicked me out because of it then I am obviously better off anyway.

_____________________________

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Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 2:11:18 PM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		For me this is a question that is pretty clear to me.
I would not have a Dom who wanted to rob people, spread disease, or kill someone.
It would be time to walk away if a Dom I served seriously thought I'd do these things as it would show me he must not have been who I thought he was at all to start with.
No- I would not obey as it's not consensual to the parties you affect by these gestures on your Dom's behalf.

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 2:13:44 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

LOL I love something I read on the Butchmann's website years ago.
Paraphrased
A Master is not always right, but the slave does not submit to the Master's rightness, they submit to the Master.
Obedince is not contingent on the Master being right.




I pulled this out of another thread so as not to hijack.

Suppose a Master told His slave to rob a bank, spread a disease, kill someone, etc. I realized this is extreme but it leaves room for a great gray area of discussion. Where does one draw the line at following a direct order from her Master / Dominant?


IMO, one should draw the line when what they are ordered to do violates their moral and ethical code.  You (the collective you) are not released from responsibility, or more importantly conscience, simply because you were ordered to do something. 
As has been stated in this thread, submission is not blind.  It is a conscious act to submit to the will of another. 

< Message edited by yourMissTress -- 12/5/2006 2:14:18 PM >

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 2:17:50 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Well the line should have been found before the relationship got very deep.
(ie you find out the moral fiber of a person before you commit not after)

Legally speaking the order would make you both criminals. You for acting on it and them for conspiracy to commit.

But that is not the rightness I or the writter was discussing.

Just so folks know my possition the question is one that has been discussed before.
Does moral responiityever cross over completely?

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 2:23:56 PM   
TopinPa


Posts: 111
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		I wouldn't be with a woman that would rob a bank just because I told her to do it...
I prefer a girl that makes sound choices; like submitting to me

(in reply to akisha)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 2:27:42 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:

Well the line should have been found before the relationship got very deep.
(ie you find out the moral fiber of a person before you commit not after)


Exactly...

_____________________________

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to TopinPa)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 3:29:24 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		There are many things that I will do just because my dominant tells me to. Things that affect other people, particularly negatively, I will not do. I gave him my consent for him to work his will upon me. They didn't.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to slavejali)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 3:55:19 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

LOL I love something I read on the Butchmann's website years ago.
Paraphrased
A Master is not always right, but the slave does not submit to the Master's rightness, they submit to the Master.
Obedince is not contingent on the Master being right.




I pulled this out of another thread so as not to hijack.

Suppose a Master told His slave to rob a bank, spread a disease, kill someone, etc. I realized this is extreme but it leaves room for a great gray area of discussion. Where does one draw the line at following a direct order from her Master / Dominant?


I have been told a story about something like these scenarios by one of my gurus. The ensuing discussion lead me to my opinion. In my opinion, the line comes into play when doing such activity would reduce your "fitness" for service. You can't properly serve from jail, maimed, psychologically damaged or dead. In my world, a slave always has one choice: to obey or not. There are consequences to doing both.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 5:01:03 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		My line was drawn when i choose to submit to Sir.  Had He been one that would not put my welfare first over a command He would not be in my life now.  Fortunately i am as safe with Him as i can or would ever be with anyone else.

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 5:15:24 PM   
catfood


Posts: 52
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: new jersey
Status: offline 		jeez, trying not to rant.  three words: safe, SANE, and consentual.

(in reply to diamonddreamlove)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 6:19:46 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

LOL I love something I read on the Butchmann's website years ago.
Paraphrased
A Master is not always right, but the slave does not submit to the Master's rightness, they submit to the Master.
Obedince is not contingent on the Master being right.




I pulled this out of another thread so as not to hijack.

Suppose a Master told His slave to rob a bank, spread a disease, kill someone, etc. I realized this is extreme but it leaves room for a great gray area of discussion. Where does one draw the line at following a direct order from her Master / Dominant?


I don't know...maybe it's just me but, anything that potentially puts me in a position to have provided for me free lifetime housing, paid for by the state, surrounded by lots of really over excercised men who look at me seductively and too often seem to think my name is "Nancy"...those are things my Domme shouldn't ask me to do for her.

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 6:29:46 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Well the line should have been found before the relationship got very deep.
(ie you find out the moral fiber of a person before you commit not after)




In an ideal world yes, but this is not always true, unfortunately

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 6:52:04 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		My line was drawn when I developed my morality.  Choosing wisely makes sense.  But what happens when what was sense, changes over time?  My line is always going to fall back on what I deem is appropriate.  I alone, should be responsible for my actions.  There is no excuse in, "but he told me to do it!"
Kyst


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to diamonddreamlove)
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 7:03:25 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

Suppose a Master told His slave to rob a bank, spread a disease, kill someone, etc. I realized this is extreme but it leaves room for a great gray area of discussion. Where does one draw the line at following a direct order from her Master / Dominant?


Another "when did you stop beating your wife?" type question (no offense meant, but seriously its all predicated on when the beating began... or in your question when the insanity begins).

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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RE: I Walk the Line ... but where is it?? - 12/5/2006 7:44:10 PM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I don't.

If I would do something, I'd do it whether someone told me to do it or not.

If I wouldn't do something, I wouldn't do it whether someone told me not to or not.

That's why making the choice to be with someone who will match with eachothers accepted limits is so important.

Yep, I pretty much agree with what LA said here

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 20
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