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RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 1:02:53 PM   
dcnovice


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The only times I recall ever noticing what other passengers were wearing have been when studs showed up in insufficiently tight shirts.

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(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 1:17:21 PM   
InfoMan


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/20/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

This is absolutely crazy because, why would United solution be to kill this program, rather than to stop discriminating against Women wearing Form Fitting clothings as something as unacceptable? They aren't freaking Taliban.

As for free shit a company gives you. Every company got their own employee benefits is at their discretion. But when they choose to give it. Give it sincerely! And don't treat staff like cattle class or something, lower than regular paying passengers!

It's like if I work in a restaurant, and then I get maybe a free dinner in the restaurant i work in for like my birthday as a perk as an employee. Should they treat me lower than dirt of a regular customer, just because the meal was free?

What bullshit is this philosophy?

Why should they be grateful about the free tickets? It's part of their employee package!


Because this isn't a required service to provide.
It is not a Right or something that was ever earned by the employees or retirees of the company or even a promise or apart of any package that you're given when you join the company. They are given all the dues that they are owed already through the company. Pay, vacation, retirement, options, plans, etc. This Pass System is just simply a kind gesture.

Which means every ticket that they provide free or at a discount is a Complete Loss for the company.

This is a gift that the company provides to it's employees specifically as thanks to those that work for them. Not a right or anything earned. And if this gift becomes a problem, they are not obliged to continue to provide it.

For instance - in your example - Many food service companies actually provide free or discounted meals to their employees. However, even then, there are conditions to this meal. Such as you can only have a discount if you're in street clothes, or if you're in uniform you cannot consume the meal in the common area where guests can see you. While realistically these things are not really problems - it goes to the Image that the company, and it is their right to set these conditions because in effect - that is payment for getting the meal for free.


After reading through this more - This is only a problem because a Bystander got outraged for something that is NOT their business. there is no sexism going on here, no oppression, no nothing. Some one who was ignorant to the facts got mad because they are ignorant... not some injustice against woman kind.

< Message edited by InfoMan -- 3/27/2017 1:19:33 PM >

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 6:51:04 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan
Because this isn't a required service to provide.
It is not a Right or something that was ever earned by the employees or retirees of the company or even a promise or apart of any package that you're given when you join the company. They are given all the dues that they are owed already through the company. Pay, vacation, retirement, options, plans, etc. This Pass System is just simply a kind gesture.

It is a right, because when you join a company, you would be sold that it comes with these benefits. So that's what you bought into when you choose a company. All these perks are part of it as your entitlement as an employee. It may not be BY LAW entitlements, but as an employee of this specific company, these are the extras that make them the more attractive company to join. Part of their promise to you.

quote:

Which means every ticket that they provide free or at a discount is a Complete Loss for the company.

Again I disagree this is a loss. Let me tell you how these "free" or "heavily subsidized" tickets work. Basically, you cannot book in advance. You choose which day you want to fly. And then you go stand by on that day. ONLY if they had available empty unsold seats right up till 1 hour before the flight goes off, they allow you to hitch a ride on the plane. If they were full, you gotta go home and try the next day again.

I got business class on that day because economy is full. They will give you whatever seats are available. And Business was empty.

So ZERO losses. They aren't giving free seats that could have been revenue. They aren't that stupid!

quote:

And if this gift becomes a problem, they are not obliged to continue to provide it.

End of the day, every company have their unique selling point and if they want to get rid of their unique selling point. There has to be a balance. If you want to attract the best employees, you got to have better benefits than your competitors too. Or you lose all your best people to your competition. Perhaps I live in a different universe from you where, employers are desperate for workers. And usually employees call the shots, not the employers. Many companies close down here because they couldn't get staff. That's why 2/3 of our population are foreigners, because there are more jobs than people.

quote:

After reading through this more - This is only a problem because a Bystander got outraged for something that is NOT their business. there is no sexism going on here, no oppression, no nothing. Some one who was ignorant to the facts got mad because they are ignorant... not some injustice against woman kind.

The rules for the free ticket is absolutely sexist! They made up sexist rules for people who wants free ticket. THAT is the problem!

(in reply to InfoMan)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:11:07 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		Sorry Greta, I totally disagree.

Employees are given these perks if, and only if, they follow all the rules to get it.
The very second you break those terms - you aren't entitled to that perk.
So.... it is NOT a 'right' - it is a perk with strings.
Point being, it is something the company can withdraw at any time for any reason and you wouldn't have the right to complain about it or take it to a tribunal.

And it's NOT zero losses either!!
Extra weight requires extra fuel to fly you.
Your luggage also has to be paid for - from the time you book in, to the baggage handlers loading and unloading that extra baggage, to the vehicles carrying it from one place to the next.
There's also the cabin crew who have one extra person to cater for and deal with. Every time they spend precious seconds with you, they are neglecting a full fare-paying passenger.
Time is money!!!
And who is paying for the extra fuel and all the extra work involved in your "free" flight???
The company have to pay for it. It is also built into the fare structure so every fucking paying passenger is paying towards your "free" flight!!
So NO, it is not a zero loss thing.


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(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:12:42 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

It is a right, because when you join a company, you would be sold that it comes with these benefits.

The airline could terminate the policy at any time, so it is not a right. It is a benefit, provided at the whim of the airline.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:17:18 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
The airline could terminate the policy at any time, so it is not a right. It is a benefit, provided at the whim of the airline.


That's like a restaurant telling you if you dine with them, you get a discount and then refusing to give you your discount when you get there.

Most companies with integrity will not do that.

United Airlines has this policy for a damn long time. And they don't enforce this rule on my end, but we were also not inform of the rule. This is the first I heard of it!

So I believe it is not strictly enforced in every UA of the world. Or there would have been more outrage even way earlier already with social media these days. And the fact that this is the first the news media caught of it, tells me it was some nazi over zealous staff not using common sense. That just leave 10 yr old girls alone! Use common sense! A kid in leggings is not untidy looking. Especially travelling with a dad who is in shorts!

They are basically saying that IF an employee's kid travelled in leggings, that is ruining the image of the company? WTF? Since when does a 10 yr old in leggings show a bad image of the kid?

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 3/27/2017 7:31:56 PM >

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:24:15 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Sorry Greta, I totally disagree.

Employees are given these perks if, and only if, they follow all the rules to get it.
The very second you break those terms - you aren't entitled to that perk.
So.... it is NOT a 'right' - it is a perk with strings.
Point being, it is something the company can withdraw at any time for any reason and you wouldn't have the right to complain about it or take it to a tribunal.

And it's NOT zero losses either!!
Extra weight requires extra fuel to fly you.
Your luggage also has to be paid for - from the time you book in, to the baggage handlers loading and unloading that extra baggage, to the vehicles carrying it from one place to the next.
There's also the cabin crew who have one extra person to cater for and deal with. Every time they spend precious seconds with you, they are neglecting a full fare-paying passenger.
Time is money!!!
And who is paying for the extra fuel and all the extra work involved in your "free" flight???
The company have to pay for it. It is also built into the fare structure so every fucking paying passenger is paying towards your "free" flight!!
So NO, it is not a zero loss thing.



In this case, it's not the employee complaining but THEIR PAYING CUSTOMER complaining about their "abusive treatment" of a young girl, shaming her for wearing leggings.

Their PAYING CUSTOMER do not like the way UA are treating their employees!

So to me, UA fucked up in this big time! Being rigid and not able to exercise flexibility.

Which is often exercised especially with dress code, as long as the person looks presentable.

UA always already have one of the worst reputation for being one of the worst serviced airline. The best service I experience from them was from my free ticket, because they knew i was my relative's relative. But when I take their flight as a full priced paying passenger, their service always sucked.

This will probably just add on to their demise.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 3/27/2017 7:26:34 PM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:24:50 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
The airline could terminate the policy at any time, so it is not a right. It is a benefit, provided at the whim of the airline.


That's like a restaurant telling you if you dine with them, you get a discount and then refusing to give you your discount when you get there.

Not a good analagy Greta.

It's more like a restaurant offering a discount if you turn up with a tie.
You then eat your meal in jeans and T-shirt expecting the discount only to be told "no tie, no discount".

The employeee knows the conditions.
Break those conditions - no perk.
It really is that simple.

You really are very naive in many situations.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
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(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:30:35 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

Without disputing the legality of United's policy, it does not, at least in this instance, appear to have achieved the goal of creating a good image for the airline.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:35:02 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
The airline could terminate the policy at any time, so it is not a right. It is a benefit, provided at the whim of the airline.


That's like a restaurant telling you if you dine with them, you get a discount and then refusing to give you your discount when you get there.

Most companies with integrity will not do that.

United Airlines has this policy for a damn long time. And they don't enforce this rule on my end, but we were also not inform of the rule. This is the first I heard of it!

So I believe it is not strictly enforced in every UA of the world. And the fact that this is the first the news media caught of it, tells me it was some nazi over zealous staff not using common sense. That just leave 10 yr old girls alone! Use common sense! A kid in leggings is not untidy looking. Especially travelling with a dad who is in shorts!

They are basically saying that IF an employee's kid travelled in leggings, that is ruining the image of the company? WTF? Since when does a 10 yr old in leggings show a bad image of the kid?



Except that this was no discount.

It was a FREE flight benefit.

It does not matter whether you like it, or even if the two girls had a problem with it, they were using an employee benefit which the EMPLOYER can set the rules for use.

If the employee does not like it, then the EMPLOYEE has the right to change fucking jobs.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:36:59 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

That's like a restaurant telling you if you dine with them, you get a discount and then refusing to give you your discount when you get there.

No, it's not even remotely like that.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:37:16 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
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ORIGINAL: Greta75
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

In amerika free food for employees is a rare thing.


I find this very strange, because the idea of these days with Tech Companies offering unlimited all day free food for their employees in Singapore was an idea inspired by what's being done in the US!!! So how is it a rare thing?

Lets try it again dumbass...
No one gives a phoque what they do in that third world shithole called singapore.
We are not talking about tech companies. My reference was to restaurants that do not provide free meals to their employees. Yes it used to be customary 60 years ago but not today.

Even when I work in hotels and convention centres in Australia I got free food.

No one gives a phoque what they do in oz, we are talking about amerika.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:37:47 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Except that this was no discount.

It was a FREE flight benefit.

It does not matter whether you like it, or even if the two girls had a problem with it, they were using an employee benefit which the EMPLOYER can set the rules for use.

If the employee does not like it, then the EMPLOYEE has the right to change fucking jobs.


The beauty of social media these days is WHEN THEIR PAYING CUSTOMERS DO NOT LIKE IT, they get to flood UA's Twitter Account telling them exactly how they feel about this ridiculous rule in their employee benefits. Which could maybe motivate UA to CHANGE this ridiculous clause. This clause is sexist. Paying customers are letting UA know that they don't approve of their sexist policies for their staff.

What UA want to do with this Faux Pas is up to them. But as I said, they don't got a good reputation as a great airline to fly with, to start with. They don't watch it, they will fall.





(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:40:50 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Without disputing the legality of United's policy, it does not, at least in this instance, appear to have achieved the goal of creating a good image for the airline.

I quite agree!!

I think the rule is ridiculous and sexist.
But... it is their rule, like it or loathe it.
You want a free ride??
Then follow the rules.... Simples!!

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“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:41:03 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Greta75


Freedomdwarf, you are not following.

No dumbass it is you who is not following.

The US guys are saying that United cannot offer free flights as an employee benefit because they would be tax for it.

Pay attention dumbass...you are the only one who has said that and no one else.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

So I ask them how tech companies offer free food then? Or even Hotels? Wouldn't they be tax for it as well?


No one cares about tech companies. Why is that? Because we are not talking about tech companies.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:44:41 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		Greta, it is quite likely that those kicking up a fuss about it probably didn't have the full story before they created a big scene over it.

And it doesn't matter a jot whether they are paying customers or not.
Rules is rules and that's the end of it.


And no, I doubt UA will fail because of this.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:47:21 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

FR
I havent readd the previous posts
Targetting children of employees and deny travel is pathetic, its ugly and taking things to the extreme
We are talking about children, wether male or female, air travel is stressful enough on children to do a jobsworth problem
over ten year olds for what they are wearing.

The free flight thing is an agreement between the company and the employee. The employee gets free flights if they meet certain requirements. If they choose not to meet those requirements then they do not get the free flights. If they are paying customers then the rules for paying customers apply. For example the airlines will not allow you to board the aircraft if you are carrying a firearm. That is one of the conditions of being allowed to fly on their aircraft.
The employee knew of the restrictions when they requested the free ticket that they chose not to honor their end of the bargain is on them and not the airline. This has nothing to do with whether you or I agree with the regulation. It is only about the employee not abiding by the rules that they agreed to when they requested the free ticket.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:54:19 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Greta75


Maybe we got different definitions of "rights".

To me, when it's what the company tells you they are gonna give you as an employee of a company. It is a right to receive it.


You have half of it right. The company says "we will give you this if you do that". The company did what they said they would do but the employee did not do what they promised. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:57:13 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Greta75


The beauty of social media these days is WHEN THEIR PAYING CUSTOMERS DO NOT LIKE IT, they get to flood UA's Twitter Account telling them exactly how they feel about this ridiculous rule in their employee benefits. Which could maybe motivate UA to CHANGE this ridiculous clause. This clause is sexist. Paying customers are letting UA know that they don't approve of their sexist policies for their staff.

What UA want to do with this Faux Pas is up to them. But as I said, they don't got a good reputation as a great airline to fly with, to start with. They don't watch it, they will fall.


U.a started the year at about $60 a share. As of the closing bell today it was over $68. It's pe is 10.
The rules apply to both sexes. You lied about the short shorts of the father.
Stop making shit up.
If you don't like u.a. don't fly u.a.
It is pretty two faced for you to badmouth the airline that allows you to fly for free.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: United Airlines Saga - 3/27/2017 7:57:20 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		SO what do you think of the employee that had such a hard on for enforcing the rules on children.
Thats the part I wanna know, what made that person such a jerk to pick on a ten year old for chrissake.
she kick him in the crotch?




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(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 60
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