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Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 2:07:47 AM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Pet peeve time. I detest when I honestly communicate about some failing of mine & am met with the other not offering up their own vulnerability, but rather using the moment to talk about how they don't have that particular failing. For me, anymore, it's something of an instant communication killer. I am, of course, discussing this within the framework of attempting to build some kind of relationship more than 'friend', of trying to establish trust & so on & so forth . . . . . .


Example:

I say: Oh, I can be so shallow sometimes.

The other responds: Oh, I'm never shallow, I don't care about superficial stuff, blah blah blah . . . ..


This is one of my little 'litmus tests' of honesty. To some degree it's not really what I think of as honesty or intimacy if it's just about showing off how wonderful one is, it's really only getting somewhere if there is disclosure of one's less-than-pretty stuff . . . . . .

It's true, they could be perfect, but since I'm so far from perfection there's not much place for perfect people in my life . . . . .

*heavy sigh* &, yeah, I have noticed that there are some 'domly' types who equate 'dommitude' as requiring projecting a rather unrelentingly 'perfect' front . . . . . More something I've encountered in real life rather than online, now that I've given it some thought -- tho' I wanna specify, again, that I'm talking about more in-depth interactions rather than the multitudes of spammers, scammers, & wham-bam-thank-you-ma'amers & their one-line contributions to the field of communication . . . . . . So, is this perfectionist thing a symptom of 'domination toxicity', so to speak?

Anybody know what I mean?

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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 2:11:57 AM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		*hugs*

Asshats, all of them.


Guess what? I overreact, I yell, I spill things, I trip on my own damn feet and always forget to replace the toilet paper.

But I'm good enough for Him, and He's good enough for me.

Perfect people are perfectly boring.


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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 2:17:03 AM   
Whenready


Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		Speaking as The Perfect Dom... (stop laughing at the back there, Jones....)

Those of you who think you are perfect are annoying to those of us who are...

Seriously, though, none of us are, but to admit to a failing is not always easy... suppose she laughs at me rather than with Me? If I admit I spilled the coffee and burnt the toast does that diminish My Authority? Dangerous thing, pride.

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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 2:22:08 AM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Nope, not a clue *ahem*

Is it time to bring out the "I used to be conceited, but now I'm perfect" bumper stickers yet?

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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 2:55:13 AM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Well, that's part of the point of the whole 'starting it out by admitting my own oopses', is to create a space for vulnerability . . . . . & I'm patient, so I usually give people at least several opportunities to start opening up, but after awhile . . . . . . *shrugs*

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

Speaking as The Perfect Dom... (stop laughing at the back there, Jones....)

Those of you who think you are perfect are annoying to those of us who are...

Seriously, though, none of us are, but to admit to a failing is not always easy... suppose she laughs at me rather than with Me? If I admit I spilled the coffee and burnt the toast does that diminish My Authority? Dangerous thing, pride.


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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 3:05:07 AM   
Whenready


Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		I suspect that Doms may be more willing to admit to imperfections further down the line than subs. I have no evidence other than anecdotal to back up this suspicion.

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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 3:14:40 AM   
subtlebutterfly


Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline 		That's only 'cause subs are meant to be perfect, and some ARE perfect.. I mean look at me for example...the epitome of perfection itself

.....I don't agree with subs having hard time admitting their imperfections...


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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 3:17:29 AM   
MsFlutter


Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline 		LOL.. I think Sunny summed it up well with 'asshats, all of them'. I'm sure I am not acquainted with any perfect people but, then again, my memory sux. This thread dovetails in an interesting fashion with 'What are your flaws'  from March.  

Flaws can create kinship - or at least a tolerance. I can't decide which is of greater value to another human: having flaws or being willing to admit them.




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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 3:19:49 AM   
Zechriel


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Good morning,
Yes I have that happen alot. I will say something that is going on in my life...kinda vague, never any real details cause I hate burdening others with my problems...and they will most likely go "Oh, I KNOW," or "I had that same thing/situation/thought!" Then quite honestly the next thing through my mind is "Yeah, RIGHT!" or "What a kiss butt." Anyone who offers up something like you said, immediately rasies my red flag on their honesty and sincerety. I have more respect for them if they just nod or pull a sympathetic face or something else.
But seriously, why would you want to offer someone a weakeness or flaw in you? Why risk that chance of them seeing you as weak or vulnerable? That opens up a wide possibillity of manipulation. Maybe I am more closed off that most people, meaning I do not put  my beliefs or emotions or thoughts "out there" for people, but to take that chance of someone using that knowledge the wrong way...::Shakes head::: Only Daddy sees me like that because he is my soft spot in this world. One person who knows the real me is enough for this lifetime. Good luck.
Love,
Zechriel


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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 3:38:07 AM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Amongst many other reasons, the universe has been having a lengthy conversation with me on the theme of 'my vulnerability is my strength', which I found implausible on first contemplation, but as time has passed I've found that there is tremendous paradoxical power in admitting to my less-than-pretties in a controlled manner . . . . .

Admitting vulnerability is a tremendous tool for connecting with others. I came to this from the other end, spent years trying to 'play perfect' cuz I thought it was what I was supposed to be doing. It actually made me more vulnerable, largely cuz, as a non-perfect being, it was a very dishonest space for me to inhabit . . .. . . But I also have extensive experience with how off-putting people find me when I'm in more of a 'remote goddess who knows everything' kinda mode . . . . .

& let me yet again specify: I'm not talking casual interactions, I'm specifically talking about the attempt to go deeper, to establish relationship beyond 'friendship' . . . . .

& as such, if I can't let down my barriers with someone I want to have a deeper relationship with, well, then what? When do people get vulnerable? Never? Wait 'til after the moving in together / wedding / collaring / whatever?

(Handy tip for those wanting to experiment: start light & easy, admitting those smaller foibles & weaknesses & work up from there . . . . . & starting with admitting them to self is the obvious first step . . . . . . )

&, I'm not perfect, so why would I wanna play perfect? What do I gain by leading someone into thinking I'm never weak when I have plenty of weak moments in my life . . .. . .

As I said in my OP, it doesn't really strike me as honesty if it's only honesty about how wonderful someone is . . . . . But my experience is that plenty of people do think that's how it works . . . . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zechriel

But seriously, why would you want to offer someone a weakeness or flaw in you? Why risk that chance of them seeing you as weak or vulnerable?


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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 3:39:00 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Well, that's part of the point of the whole 'starting it out by admitting my own oopses', is to create a space for vulnerability . . . . . & I'm patient, so I usually give people at least several opportunities to start opening up, but after awhile . . . . . . *shrugs*



Maybe if you ask more directly, you'd get a different response.  In other words, when you say "Sometimes I can be so shallow", the other person may interpret the subject matter to be shallowness, rather than the mutual admission of short comings, therefore their response might be, "oh, that's not something I am". 

How about...My worst fault is blah blah blah.....How about you? is there anything about yourself that you'd like to change?   This might elicit the information and type of response you're looking for.  

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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 3:43:24 AM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Thanks for the thought, marie2.

I've tried out many modes for introducing this subject. In my experience, more direct enquiries tend to be perceived more as attacks, no matter how carefully I word myself . . . . I've gone to indirection & framing it as talking about me because it's much less likely to be received as an attack . . . . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

Maybe if you ask more directly, you'd get a different response.  In other words, when you say "Sometimes I can be so shallow", the other person may interpret the subject matter to be shallowness, rather than the mutual admission of short comings, therefore their response might be, "oh, that's not something I am". 

How about...My worst fault is blah blah blah.....How about you? is there anything about yourself that you'd like to change?   This might elicit the information and type of response you're looking for.  


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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 4:01:35 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Pet peeve time. I detest when I honestly communicate about some failing of mine & am met with the other not offering up their own vulnerability, but rather using the moment to talk about how they don't have that particular failing. For me, anymore, it's something of an instant communication killer. I am, of course, discussing this within the framework of attempting to build some kind of relationship more than 'friend', of trying to establish trust & so on & so forth . . . . . .


Example:

I say: Oh, I can be so shallow sometimes.

The other responds: Oh, I'm never shallow, I don't care about superficial stuff, blah blah blah . . . ..


This is one of my little 'litmus tests' of honesty. To some degree it's not really what I think of as honesty or intimacy if it's just about showing off how wonderful one is, it's really only getting somewhere if there is disclosure of one's less-than-pretty stuff . . . . . .

It's true, they could be perfect, but since I'm so far from perfection there's not much place for perfect people in my life . . . . .

*heavy sigh* &, yeah, I have noticed that there are some 'domly' types who equate 'dommitude' as requiring projecting a rather unrelentingly 'perfect' front . . . . . More something I've encountered in real life rather than online, now that I've given it some thought -- tho' I wanna specify, again, that I'm talking about more in-depth interactions rather than the multitudes of spammers, scammers, & wham-bam-thank-you-ma'amers & their one-line contributions to the field of communication . . . . . . So, is this perfectionist thing a symptom of 'domination toxicity', so to speak?

Anybody know what I mean?

As a male from Mars, my pet peeve is trying to decipher what it is you women are calling "honest communication" at times like this....
 
Your example:
"I say: Oh, I can be so shallow sometimes.

The other responds: Oh, I'm never shallow, I don't care about superficial stuff, blah blah blah . . . .."
 
If I'm understanding you correctly, said dom *failed* your "litmus test" because he (reasonably) thought your topic of "communication" was of you ocasionally being shallow when, in fact, he was supposed to recognise that you were conducting a veiled fishing expedition? 
 
And it's his *honesty* that's on the line as a consequence?  No, wait, it's that he's impossibly perfect???  Or would that be imperfect?  Which brings us to "domitude"???  I'd personally confess to the latter if someone tried to skip me through hoops like this...!
 
On Mars, we only speak English....  If I'm talking to someone who only speaks Spanish, then it's their fault for not understanding me.  Does this conclusion at least equate to the gist of your "pet peeve" re "communication"?
 
Focus.

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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 4:10:50 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Yeah, I guess admitting faults isn't something that most people want to do in the "getting to know you stage". And sometimes people aren't honest with themselves about stuff like that anyway.  I think just spending time talking and getting to know a person reveals a lot if you read between the lines.

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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 4:18:14 AM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Hmmm, well, it's either give a short quick & fairly generic example, with all those pitfalls, or it's spend several pages delineating some very specific example with all those pitfalls . . . . .

As to why not ask directly? I do ask directly, but, as I said to marie2 above, direct questions, in my experience, are far more likely to be perceived as attacks, whereas if I stick to framing discussions around talking about myself & my experience, it's far less likely to be perceived as an attack . . .. . .

& especially, in my experience, asking people a direct 'what flaws do you have?' kinda question, however nicely couched it might be, is far & away more likely to produce a defensive reaction in the other . . . . .. . . Even if I do preface it with admitting my own foibles . .. . . .

Surprisingly, I guess, plenty of people do respond to my admission of vulnerability with an, 'oh, yeah, I know what you mean, I can be so flawed too' kinda thing . . . . .

Oh. & typically I only 'spring' my little 'trap' on those who've gone on & on about how honest they are, so I'm checking to see how far that honesty goes . . . . . . As I'll point out on & on in this thread, this is not some kinda initial contact issue, this is something that invariably comes up in moving into a deeper level of relationship . . . . . . . &, again in my experience, it tends to be more of an issue with some people who blather on & on about the importance of 'honesty' . . . . . . I've even 'sprung' my little trap after having laid out this whole idea, in the same conversation, & had that same, 'nope, I'm perfect' kinda reply . . . . .

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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 4:18:25 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		But I am perfect, perfectly imperfect.

On the flip side of this I cannot tell you how many people I've met that wanted me to BE perfect. That felt my admitting of imperfections was very uncool. They felt like I was putting myself down in admitting, and *gasp* making fun of them. Personally, I see it as a reflection of the other person, their insecurities.

I am totally cool with being gloriously imperfect. Wouldn't have it any other way. I cannot imagine how hidiously intollerable I would be, if I really was perfect. Cringing at the very idea.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 4:38:39 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

&, again in my experience, it tends to be more of an issue with some people who blather on & on about the importance of 'honesty' . . . . . .


Based upon my own experiences,  I haven't met a person yet who blathered on and on about honesty who actually turned out to be honest.

Discussing the importance of honesty in a conversation is one thing, but when people go on and on, constantly mentioning how honest they are, and how important honesty is,  it's an overcompensation for what they actually lack.  It has become the perfect filter for me.  If someone makes it a point to talk about how honest they are.....I'm gone.   Hey, thanks for the clue, buddy.  See ya later.

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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 5:10:57 AM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		lol

Absolutely agree with you, marie2, except -- I blather on & on about being honest, hell this whole thread could be accurately seen as me showing off how honest I am . .. . . But at the same time I really do understand your point, below . .. . . lol . . . . It's one of those conundrum kindsa things . . . . . . & I do trigger my own bullshit detectors when I go on & on & on about honesty . . . . . lol

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

Based upon my own experiences,  I haven't met a person yet who blathered on and on about honesty who actually turned out to be honest.

Discussing the importance of honesty in a conversation is one thing, but when people go on and on, constantly mentioning how honest they are, and how important honesty is,  it's an overcompensation for what they actually lack.  It has become the perfect filter for me.  If someone makes it a point to talk about how honest they are.....I'm gone.   Hey, thanks for the clue, buddy.  See ya later.


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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 5:22:25 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Many moons ago my sister asked me "Why is it that when you screw up Mom and Dad just laugh and tease you about it and when me or (My other sister) screws up they quit speaking to us?" My first thought was because I had made screwing up such an art form!! So I asked my mom. She said it was because when I screw up it's out there for the world to see!!! Kind of screaming "Look what I did, what a dumbass!!" And when they screwed up they tried to hide it, like my parents were too stupid to know what happened. I never thought of it that way, but it made sense, no one likes being treated like they are stupid, right?

And I wish I had a nickel for every time Scooter as asked me about something I was supposed to do and my response was "Crap... I'll do it in the morning!! I forgot!!" (old age sucks.. you know? lol)

So even today when I screw up or do something really far from perfect I'm the first to admit it and I'll laugh just as hard at it as anyone else. But we put up with someone that wouldn't (couldn't?) admit to shortcomings no matter what, busted cold but still couldn't admit to any wrong doing. Something was lost, that person was the one that was supposed to have put it away the response was always the same... I gave it to you and I haven't seen it since. Well, there was the occasional "You son stole it" thing. We would eventually find the item, right where she most likely put it, and again, it would be "I didn't put it there". So yeah, for us, now... that's a major bit of baggage. Anyone that cannot admit to their shortcomings in an open and honest way... just not welcome in our lives.

Jewel

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RE: Honestly? I'm Perfect. - 5/18/2009 8:35:53 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Kia,

Since you and I run in something of the same circles, I know you a bit, however, this is a side of yours I haven't seen before.  A few observations

As most here know, I AM honest to a fault.  I agree that by being open and vulnerable, you can gain great strength.  It does have a couple of downsides.  Most people have no clue how to take someone who is actually open and honest, ESPECIALLY if they aren't.

It limits who you can "be" with because most WANT that veneer of appearce rather than deal with the reality of another actual imperfect person.  However, find the person who loves the real you and you have found someone worth getting to know.

That said, "testing" people sucks.  If I found out someone was testing me, I would "fail" them or at least make it clear that isn't a game I play.  Testing isn't honest, you are in essense lying to them about what you are talking about.

Oh, and if you keep running into people who are not honest with themselves, you might want to look at your role in that process.

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