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Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 8:32:00 AM   
Mercnbeth


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There has been a couple of threads skirting this issue. Coincidently, on the other side of CM we've been exchanging information with a couple we hope to meet soon where the the reference to 'sensual sadism' was discussed. I'm coming from the perspective that from the time I first look into the eyes of a partner, though the bondage, flogging, caning, whatever; I am having sexual intercourse with them. My enjoyment of any sensation generating aspect of WIITWD is sexual. Not every scene or play session includes penetration or concludes an orgasm, but it sure includes sex. One of the things I enjoy most about having beth as a compatible partner able to live with me within a 24/7 Master/slave dynamic is that it is 24/7 sex, or at least 24/7 foreplay.

We've turned down plenty of opportunities to 'play' with people because we both feel this way. I think many see and agree that there is a great amount of intimacy to submit to someone. I have the same feeling when it comes to dominating. I can't, and don't, respond by picking up my toy bag when someone comes to me after observing a play session with beth at a club and says; "please do that to me." I tell them it's not possible. At least not that night, not right now; lets talk and get to know each other a bit and then decide if you want to be in a position for me to be able to do 'that' to you. No, there doesn't have to be 'love', but there has to be some connection, some sense of knowledge of who the other person is, and a sensual attraction. I've been with many different people of various ages, and sizes; what they had in common was I knew them, and they knew me, enough to understand and want to share sensual and sexual intimacy along with sensation. It took a bit of time but it was worth it.

I can't pigeon hole WIITWD as strictly a sensation. I consider it mental intercourse, mental intimacy; sometimes reaching emotions never approached in goal oriented sex play. Sometimes people don't realize this when they first become involved and its a scary process for both sides of the flogger. I've seen more tears driven by the emotions experienced than I have with the pain experienced. It is not always easy to predict, but relatively easy to observe especially with someone you know well. When I observe it with beth, I whisper in her ear; "go deeper...". I love seeing her exposed like that to me. That is our scene orgasm; one no club rule or 'Dungeon Master can inhibit. When considering a casual scene, I would think people would be more concerned about the potential of having those feelings exposed than they would any body part.

My feeling is that a non-intimate, sensation oriented scene would be as hollow as a similarly casual sex act. Casual sex, and casual scenes fulfill a basic need, biological and physical, however; at least at this stage of my life, I'd pass the opportunity to have either.

Is this a "one true way"? (beth says it is!) Well, its MY true way. I'm curious if it is anyone else's? For that matter, does anyone else feel the same?
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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 8:41:23 AM   
xxblushesxx


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I *do* feel the same way, in that that is how it is for us.
However, I'm sure there are many who feel that play is just play; and that is fine for them.
We just would not be compatible.

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 8:44:33 AM   
ownedgirlie


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For my Master and I, it's about expression of who we are, and the connection.  It means little to nothing if there isn't a connection involved.  Neither of us are interested in empty sensations.

I wonder, though, if you and beth embark on even casual play with others, are you not still experiencing a connection with each other, by doing this together?

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 8:46:47 AM   
Leatherist


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I figured this out a long time ago-when I did casual play to break the ice with the community-and subs kept wanting to follow me home after.
 
 It's not something I do with anyone I would not want to foster a deeper connection with these days. It's unreasonable to expect people, especially women-not to get emotionally connected when you do things like this with them.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 6/5/2008 8:47:24 AM >


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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 9:01:52 AM   
xxblushesxx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

 It's unreasonable to expect people, especially women-not to get emotionally connected when you do things like this with them.

 Wait...is this like women like to do dishes and have babies, and men like to grill and drink beer?


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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 9:33:04 AM   
mistoferin


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He he....I just referenced this very subject on another thread and was called on it. I was told that sometimes bottoming (and I assume or topping) is purely for stress relief. I don't buy it. If it was about stress relief one could punch a heavy bag and get the desired result. But we aren't punching heavy bags. We are doing what we do on people...usually bound people who are naked to at least some degree. We do what we do on asses, breasts, cocks and pussies. We get sexually stimulated by doing what we do. If there was absolutely no sexual component to this we would not need another human being.....we could do it on a wall, run a few miles, drive a car at reckless speeds, meditate....or a gagillion other things. I have been a part of or a witness to literally thousands of scenes in my life...and I have never yet seen one that was not sexual on some level...one that did not have any human connection. I certainly have never been part of one. So yes, I say that it is sexual. I am sure that others will disagree....but I aint buying it. 

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 9:38:04 AM   
KatyLied


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quote:

It's unreasonable to expect people, especially women-not to get emotionally connected when you do things like this with them.


wow


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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 9:40:58 AM   
CruelDesires


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Some people don't have another person who they have that "connection" with so they play with others until they find someone to connect with on a deeper level. In the meantime.. it might just be a shallow experiance but it is all that they have. The sad part is, I believe that there are some who will never attain that deeper connection.

CD

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 10:44:01 AM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

It's unreasonable to expect people, especially women-not to get emotionally connected when you do things like this with them.


wow



Uh huh, I actually DARED say such a sexist and "un pc" thing-from personal experience-go figure. Men are such pigs.

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 11:04:45 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
I wonder, though, if you and beth embark on even casual play with others, are you not still experiencing a connection with each other, by doing this together?


owned,
You hit upon the exact follow up question that usually comes up when this issue is discussed. "Okay - how do you 'play' with others? Is 'casual play' and 'sensual play' exclusive of each other? Absolutely not! However it may not be obvious.

Directly to your question, yes in deed there is a 'connection' between us regardless of who else is involved. We each get great pleasure seeing the other experience pleasure. We LOVE participating in the other's 'fun'. We LOVE the idea of participating or facilitating the other's fantasies. The 'connection' is so deep that the idea of jealousy, if others are involved isn't a consideration.

Sometimes it is a matter of preference. For instance, I personally have no interest or desire for hot wax play. beth was curious about it. An opportunity arose for her to experience it at the hands of a very experienced, and very 'sensual' for that matter, dominant couple. The 'intercourse' that ensued between the four of us was marvelous; different colors, dripped from varying heights using beth as a 'canvas' produced interesting visual and tactile results. Much better than anything I could do alone. There was a four way 'connection' occurring, but none stronger than the fundamental connection between beth and I even though I had very little 'hands on' involvement.

Sometimes the others who are involved are much more casual but are required more as a 'prop' than sensual intimacy. The 'connection' is that I know them, and trust them enough with my most valuable possession, my slave. Little, if any, mental/emotional connection is required or involved. It is much more difficult to express well and, at the same time, concisely in written words; easier using an example. Put it this way, one person, even an Italian, can't fulfill the fantasy of experiencing a something akin to a 'gang bang'. Again, very casual, and sensation driven for the men; the sensual would come into play with that 'connection' between us that you mentioned. At its extreme, consider the fantasy of having your head locked into the receiving end of a 'glory hole'. What comes through the hole are sensation props; what occurs in the Master and slave's head, the 'connection', is the sensual.

'Connection' represents the confidence and trust shared by the people in the relationship. Thanks for making sure that was included for consideration.

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 1:05:39 PM   
softness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

a 24/7 Master/slave dynamic is that it is 24/7 sex, or at least 24/7 foreplay.

Is this a "one true way"? (beth says it is!) Well, its MY true way. I'm curious if it is anyone else's? For that matter, does anyone else feel the same?


Bingo!

For me - its called the "24/7ness" .... the feeling of *always* being right there - of that energy building and building all the time,

I adored last week because that energy was there *the whole time* it was there when we drove to the supermarket, it was there in a restaurant, it was there in Ikea, and as I ate from the floor at His feet, and when He beat me, and when He made me cry, and when He made me scream with joy.

It felt for me (I can't comment for Him) .. that everything I was doing was building into and contributing to that energy - and no the result wasn't always an orgasm for either of us, but its was a satisfaction, it was a climax of sorts#

We were talking a few weeks ago about how play would blend into our everyday life - and it essentially came down to what Merc said about 24/7 foreplay. Its all about building into that energy - which isn't always sexual but that *IS* satisfying.

I have been back less than a week - and already some of the sensual and sexual memories are starting to fade (god bless jounrals) .. I can't recall the instensity of the orgasms I had last wednesday - but I can remember the buzz of energy from finding myself at His feet .. finally ... and looking up to see Him contented and peaceful.

I can already see that even just a short experience of the 24/7ness between Sir and I .. has ruined me for casual play, just like kinky sex ruined me for vanilla sex, and just like a good mind fucking ruined me for any other kind of fucking. I feel about casual sex now as very much another type of sport- -I am starting to think the more I am exposed to the 24/7ness, to the constant flow of emotional energy, of intimacy, or devotion and power - the more casual play is just going to be another sport.

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 2:21:38 PM   
LadyPact


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Merc, you've hit on something that has been weighing heavily on My mind of late.  It is this exact topic that has been troubling Me on so many levels.

I am in full agreement with you regarding connection.  Just as there is a difference in a sexual encounter where there is intimacy between the two and where there is not, I believe it is the same for wiitwd.  I'm sure there are some who will see the issue differently, but I have always been the type of person to see sex itself in the same view.  Sex with My husband, who I love and cherish, is ultimately better than any type of sex than I have had with anyone where those elements did not exist.  Yes, at the time (it's been a while), the act did fulfill a need, per se, on a physical level, but not on the same emotional, mental, or spiritual levels as it does where the true intimacy exists.

Currently, I have to translate this analogy to My BDSM practices.  The play  I have with My sub is far superior than the casual play that I might experience where the connection isn't as deeply established.  As with the scenario I painted in relation to sex above, I base this on the fact that the connection and intimacy is present, where with others, it doesn't have the same type of strength.    I am connected to the other people that I play with on a casual level, but it isn't in the same way.  While the experiences are still good, and fill the same type of need, they aren't on the same level.

With My sub's departure looming in just the next few weeks,  I've had to look at this.  I've had to wonder on how well I will adjust to not having that connection, that intimacy during My play, or if I will be comfortable with playing at all for a while.  It is not that I want to take a 'break' from either the lifestyle, or from playing.  My husband (though in Korea) and I have discussed this at great lengths.  It's his firm belief that I should continue to keep active in playing.  I'm just not sure how that is going to fit in the coming months.

This is probably quite a bit of personal reflection, perhaps too much for some, for a general message board.  Still, I'm in the position of wondering for Myself when that physical need for play will overcome My need for true connection.    Will it satisfy the need, or will it only emphatically reinforce that the same type of intimacy that I have with My current boy no longer exists?  This is a hard question that I am asking Myself.

I doubt this rambling has added much to the discussion at hand, but I am glad the topic was posted.


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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 3:08:33 PM   
Mercnbeth


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Lady Pact,
In case you notice your 'who's viewing me' banner red - it was me. I wanted to see where you were located and unfortunately we can't get together for casual coffee!

You weren't rambling. Your thoughts fit perfectly into the discussion. I alluded earlier how the 'connection', referenced by owned girlie, was damn near impossible to describe with the written word. You know it is different, sometimes unique, but how it is such requires more poetry than I'm capable.

I think your concern regarding adjusting to the departure of your sub is well placed. I don't believe you can or should try to 'get over it' or 'forget it'. Instead, I'd suggest you focus on the fun.

Try not to compare present 'connection' with past. Play if the spirit moves you. Searching for my connection, I found I enjoyed the social aspects of clubs and munches. I played, under the terms of 'connecting' on some level and had a GREAT time. I was seeking, but held no preconception of where any initial 'connection' would lead, no matter how 'perfect' the partner seemed.

It worked out - as I'm sure it will for you.

And you know what - taking some time for "personal reflection" is a good thing. See it as fortunate and see the connection you had with your sub as a fortunate experience. After all, as you say, you have a reference point that many do not.

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 3:29:35 PM   
LadyPact


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The above is all entirely true.  From experience, I know this to be the case.  I appreciate your words on the subject.

So as to not hijack the thread entirely, I sent a mail.


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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 4:04:58 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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I've got a new friend who says she does not play casually.  But the second time she saw this one guy, he duct taped her down, slapped her face and had her spacing pretty hard- they are rarely apart for more than a day ever since.  Most people would say the second time you meet someone having only barely interacted with them before could no way be more than casual.

But I think we know that's not necessarily true. 

I think it's YOUR true way, but that's not the same as THE true way.

But this is also why I get so frustrated about the no sex rules in so many places just because it's an "icky kink" to so many.  We're allowed to have so many forms of intercourse...but not that?

To me it's all a form of intercourse, interplay, interaction, connection- that's why the specific activity rarely matters to me.  It's all about who we are, where we want to go together. 

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 5:27:36 PM   
pinksugarsub


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Very interesting Op, Merc.  i admit i am not sure i completely understand all of it, but i think i got most of what You said.
 
If You asked 'does play have to involve sex', then i'd have to answer, for me, it does.  i just don't see the point of building up to a connection like the one that occurs -- to me -- in play if there isn't  going to be a sexual element, including almost always an orgasm for both P/pl.
 
Maybe i'm just different than You...or want sex more....or my feelings in play aren't what You are used to seeing.  Who knows?
 
Doesn't really matter so long as W/we both get what W/we want from D/s.  i can see how happy You are with beth, and i know Yr one of the fortunate O/ones.
 
pinksugarsub

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 6:02:32 PM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

My feeling is that a non-intimate, sensation oriented scene would be as hollow as a similarly casual sex act. Casual sex, and casual scenes fulfill a basic need, biological and physical, however; at least at this stage of my life, I'd pass the opportunity to have either.


True for you and I but plenty of people would be as sick of what we do as we would be of the above.

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 7:55:53 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Directly to your question, yes in deed there is a 'connection' between us regardless of who else is involved. We each get great pleasure seeing the other experience pleasure. We LOVE participating in the other's 'fun'. We LOVE the idea of participating or facilitating the other's fantasies. The 'connection' is so deep that the idea of jealousy, if others are involved isn't a consideration.

Yes!  This is exactly what I was thinking.  That no matter what is going on with the other party involved, you and beth are still connected, still in tune, and are enjoying participating, even if that means just "being there", in the other's experience.  The connection remains, in fact it can be strengthened, when watching your partner. 

I remember a particular experience which involved a "casual party", and I was so zoned in on my Master, as though there was this channel of energy zooming between us, even though he and I were not the ones touching.  It was an experience we reflected on later, and one we mutually shared.

quote:


Sometimes it is a matter of preference. For instance, I personally have no interest or desire for hot wax play. beth was curious about it. An opportunity arose for her to experience it at the hands of a very experienced, and very 'sensual' for that matter, dominant couple. The 'intercourse' that ensued between the four of us was marvelous; different colors, dripped from varying heights using beth as a 'canvas' produced interesting visual and tactile results. Much better than anything I could do alone. There was a four way 'connection' occurring, but none stronger than the fundamental connection between beth and I even though I had very little 'hands on' involvement.

Exactly.  Even though it was someone else dripping the delicious colors on her, there was a shared energy between you (you & beth) that couldn't be matched.  I get it.  It's icing on the cake that a four way connection occurred. 

quote:


Sometimes the others who are involved are much more casual but are required more as a 'prop' than sensual intimacy. The 'connection' is that I know them, and trust them enough with my most valuable possession, my slave. Little, if any, mental/emotional connection is required or involved. It is much more difficult to express well and, at the same time, concisely in written words; easier using an example. Put it this way, one person, even an Italian, can't fulfill the fantasy of experiencing a something akin to a 'gang bang'. Again, very casual, and sensation driven for the men; the sensual would come into play with that 'connection' between us that you mentioned. At its extreme, consider the fantasy of having your head locked into the receiving end of a 'glory hole'. What comes through the hole are sensation props; what occurs in the Master and slave's head, the 'connection', is the sensual.

Once again, I get it.  In fact this is exactly what I was referring to, that no matter what is occurring "outside" of you both, the intensity of what you are feeling together, for each other, with each other, can be amazing.  What she does, she does for you, no matter who is physically subjecting to what you have decided for her.  And you both know this, and the connection shared as a result can be amazing, yes?

quote:


'Connection' represents the confidence and trust shared by the people in the relationship. Thanks for making sure that was included for consideration.


Thanks for replying!  I actually think "connection" represents more than trust and confidence, depending on who is doing the connecting.  To me, "connection" is shared energy - like you said, it's difficult to explain.  It's an internal, emotional, maybe even spiritual sharing.  At the risk of sounding weirder than I already am, I see connection as your spirits touching each other, and sharing something precious.

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 9:57:20 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


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Mercnbeth,
What you posted is truely beautiful, pure and while it actually might not be a one wayism for everybody.  In my opinion it's the Best wayism to experience, live and breath.  Back a month ago, I made a post, trying to put something into words.  It was nothing but memories, mental snap shots in time that live inside of me. 

Perhaps songs like "My Immortal" in Evanescence begin to capture the it.

The connection, somehting a little deeper then perhaps love even.  I just know regardless of love or not, the connection. 

Thank you very much for sharing what you did.   Ironic that your post came at just the right time for me personally to read.

I've been wreatling around a bit lately, sorting a few things out.  Dare I say, Beths one wayism is exactly what I'm after.  Regardless of anything else.  Regardless of labels, orientations, love or without love.   All of those crazy things. 

I am haunted in a good way, old memories...  I've been trying to figure out stupid crap lately.  Such as what do I want another Dom Couple relationship or a Master/slave relationship.  What kind of lifestyle relationship.  

What's been fucking with me a lot, are those old memories and the connections.  The connection Amanda and I had, the crazy things we did.  It was not about us a Dom couple..  It was all about that Connection.  I'm starting to tear up a little here right now.

Thank you guys very much.  Tell beth... I agree with it being a Great and beautiful One wayism. 

I needed to read the things you said.  Thank you... very much.   

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RE: Sensation not sex or sensual? - 6/5/2008 10:09:27 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


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Couple of quick thoughts...   the connection and 24/7 living.... it's something far worth the whole experience....  to have both..... 

It's been awhile since, I found myself just sitting with tearing running down my own face...  happening right now at the moment.....   It's like a soft rain....  gentle tears flowing....

Well last time it happened was the season finale of "House", that was tear jerker.  But that was over something on TV.    Not from something deep and to the core of things like this is for me.....

Again, thank you...    In all the postings I've read on here in the last couple of years, nothing has made me tear up like this......  this is a first....

yeah, yeah, yeah....  perhaps I'm being too open here, but screw it!   


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