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Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 5:23:01 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		We usually only get one side of a story and even that is generally very limited as to what the "whole" picture looks like. Sometimes it's pretty clear cut and I can understand how people come to the conclusions they do...have even gone there myself on occasion. I don't want to limit this thread by saying that it is specifically about one or two posts because it's not....I have seen many, many such examples here on CollarMe. But just so everyone has a current reference I will use the threads on the "Ask A Master" board today.

One thread about a guy who lost his job and both his submissives and is having a hard time moving forward. Numerous people automatically jumped toward blaming the submissives for leaving. The OP never said why they left or what led up to that. People just assumed they were shallow women who left because the OP lost his job. They were long term relationships (2 and 7 years I believe). There could be one of a million reasons why they left. Maybe this was the 20th job he lost. Maybe there were lots of other issues and this one was just the last straw.

Another post on the same board by a submissive who states she is brand new, just found a dominant (has only had two sessions so far) and is finding that she needs more vanilla conversation than he has been interested in so far. So from that information it was determined that he is a user who is taking advantage of her. Huh????

As I said, it's not about those threads specifically,  I actually see it pretty often on here. They often end in cries of "You should leave him". I would certainly hope that people would put more thought into ending a relationship and not do so simply because someone on an internet message board told them to. I can also see where in some cases it probably is the best advice. Why do we tend to go there so quickly though with so little information?

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 5:37:55 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		It boggles me too, the quick reaction of 'omg leave that bastard/bitch before they deeeeestroy you and all you love. Go go go fast!' I get exhausted with it to be honest, and I just don't get it. Some posters say it over and over no matter the situation, I can't figure out how they discern that it is such an urgent situation that simply cannot be salvaged. Ironic I think, because many of the same espouse communication as the only way to go, yet then turn around in a different thread and say it can never work.

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 5:51:34 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Maybe because a lot of people read into things what they want to read and then react off that.

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 5:52:23 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Two things that is very common in people in general....

They are Judgmental... and they are Liars!

In the On Line world... these characteristics of people seem to be taken to new heights

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 5:56:46 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

They are Judgmental... and they are Liars!


I can't help but chuckle because this is one of those statements that corroborates itself.

Its like saying "there's two kinds of people in this world: those who believe there are two kinds of people and those who don't."

Sorry for the hijack.  But those things fascinate me.

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 5:57:06 AM   
lauren0221


Posts: 681
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline 		Human beings tend to filter what they hear or read through their own experience.

I know I have read threads that have struck chords in me, and had very non-objective reactions to them.

We can never know the whole story from a one-sided post. People are going to respond based on their interpretation of what they read.

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 5:59:35 AM   
KnightofMists


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl
I can't help but chuckle because this is one of those statements that corroborates itself.



yeah... but am I being judgemental or am I lying!......or maybe something else.

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 6:01:42 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I'm going for something else *grinz*
But my lips are sealed.

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 6:14:47 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I have a similar problem when dealing with my sons school.  It seems that the first kid to get to an adult and tell his side of the story is the one that is judged more turthful and by the time they get to the second kids story (if they ever do) they've already tried and convicted him.  Sucks when you are the mom of a kid that doesn't like running to an adult and tattleing.

The adults in that scenario, and often times on message boards (not just this one) tend to forget is that when someone is relaying a narrative they more often then not cast themselves in the heroic, matyr, or victim role.  Very rarely will someone admit their moments of fault in the encounter.  Part of this, I believe is because we are hard wired to be egocentric and to see the world through self-entitled eyes.  Part of it is that we may know on a deeper level that we are accoutable but if we can justify it away, put a spin on the story that leaves the hero of the story less culpable then we minimize our own responsibilities for our action

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 6:14:52 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I get told all the time that I'm being too harsh, too judgemental and making too many leaps of intuition.

But I don't really see the harm in it, at this point I know I'm usually pretty darn accurate and just as often get put down for considering too many other perspectives.

There is a way to make good judgements and take those things into account- but when you put something out into the world, you lose control over how it will be responded to.  In fact some of the responses you get which are completely off the wall can help you gain perspective on the whole situation.

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 6:19:39 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I get told all the time that I'm being too harsh, too judgemental and making too many leaps of intuition.


I've never seen you give Chicken Little type responses.

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 6:20:39 AM   
Taboo4Two


Posts: 170
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: NH, TX
Status: offline 		Opinions are great and advice can be a useful tool for making smart, informed decsions. As you said though, for anyone to think that they are going to get the magic bullet solution here is folly on their part.

I've always liked the adage "there is the story of one side, the story of the other side and the truth of the middle."

Domino

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 6:20:58 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Really?  I've made probably a dozen or so of those.  It's true.  The great thing is that half the time someone tells me I'm being a big bad meanie, they come back later and thank me for it.  So I figure it's working out well enough.

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 6:42:56 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		I don't know, but it would appear that some people see other people as dispensible and relationships pretty much in the same way they see jobs. There seems to be a line of thinking that a considerable number of people adopt where you either have to meet all the criteria in a relationship or get out. Dating appears to have become almost the same as a recruitment process, a series of interviews with candidates for a position as the other half of a relationship. I don't get this way of thinking.

A relationship is not a job. But again you see the same abdication of responsibility. Some people are more interesting in knowing how they should feel than in examining themselves, the relationship, and dealing with what they actually feel. Rather than talk to the person they share a relationship with they would much rather come onto the Message Boards and get a general consensus from other people as to how they should feel and what they should do in the relationship. I sometimes wonder if these people would, in the absence of the Internet and these Message Boards, put their questions down on paper, attach a clipboard and pen and go out on the streets to ask other people. It seems to amount to the same thing. "Honey I don't love you any more, and my decision is based on a survey I've been conducting over the past few weeks in which 78% of all respondents said that I should leave you."

How would we feel if we walked into a relationship counsellor and we got the response "Ditch him" or "get rid of her"? Would this be a successful relationship counsellor? Only here on these boards we don't have the benefit of having both partners in front of our faces. We get a posting which only gives us a part of the whole relationship, and it's also only one side of the story. What's the other side? What has been tried? It's very easy to jump to conclusions, form an opinion, apportion the blame and make a judgment, but is it the right one? Why does there always have to be someone at fault? Why is apportioning the blame and finding fault the be all and end all? What happened to understanding, asking questions, finding out more information? Whatever happened to finding the solution to the problem and moving on without focussing who's at fault?

Deceiving others in relationships is one thing, but you can oh so easily deceive yourself in a relationship, and what is more when you do deceive yourself it can be so hard to see it. Often not always the other person can see it until it's too late. You often work it out when it's too late, after having made several mistakes. Reality checks are a good thing.

When it comes to postings people tend to make judgments based on their own experiences or from their own perspectives. It can be hard to see something from someone else's perspective.

This is why it's always better to judge the action, the deed, and not the person behind it.

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 7:00:10 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		would you want both parties involved within the problem posting together before giving your opinion/resolution to said problem?  better pop the corn as both go toe to toe during a rough "he said she said vs she said he said" fight.

ahhhhhhhh - only in a perfect world however you have to realize 9 times out of 10 it'll always be a one-sided story in a thread. for example, mine 2nd chances/begging - you only heard my version on the thread - not his. now do you want to hear his side?  i'm absolutely certain a "good" majority of you would like to.

assumptions, presumptions, and casting blame will continue as long as one side is posted and not both because it's human nature to do so.

< Message edited by sambamanslilgirl -- 5/9/2008 7:08:29 AM >

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 7:00:28 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Some of the time when folks seem to assume I am making asumptions in a responce to a post... they are quite far from the truth.

We only get one side to most 'storys' and most of the people are ones We will never meet, nor even see posts from... little point making judgements on those people then is there..... Drawing conclusions about the scenario presented is different. It is like a case study, some haven't enough info to draw a conclusion from, others... if the situation is as presented then there are conclusions to be made... that isn't judging the people, mearly responding the the question as presented, which is all We can really do here else We'd never respond to anything.


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And it must follow, as the night the day,
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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 7:02:33 AM   
abcbsex


Posts: 478
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline 		I've gotten that reaction before in a body piercing community by saying that my husband didn't like nose piercings so I was looking for something else to do. I mean, these people were to the point where they were saying that he'd be limiting me for the rest of my life, that he was only bringing me down, etc. I just had to say, "Back the fuck up guys!"

Sometimes the internet just makes people mean. jumpy motherfuckers!

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 7:35:57 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		There are a few trains of thought that I have with this.  The first is that we tend to do what we have trained ourselves to do on message boards.  We give opinions and advice to the questions that have been asked.  As I said on one of the threads you referenced, erin, it is impossible to understand an entire relationship within the content of a couple of written paragraphs.  It is this very fact that leads us to assumptions, because there is no alternative.  We can have no way to do better than that.  Not unless we live the life that anyone who brings a question here lives.

As people, we come to our conclusions in various ways.  One of those is personal experience, directly related to our own feelings should we find a similarity in a story or question.  For example. it stands to reason that someone who has been hurt by a partner who has cheated on them, might be one of those who speak loudest when someone brings an issue of being cheated on.  Their own past experience, tied with that emotion, will color an opinion.  Judgment and moral compass are other ways, as when asked a question, we internalize the situation, and reply with what it is that we would do.  There are other ways as well, but I think the above applies to your question.

I tend to think that, when we as a general populace of a discussion board are asked a question or for advice, we answer emotionally, because we have no fact to base our opinions on.  It might not be possible to use logic in many instances, because we have no hard core evidence of which to base a decision.  It is the best we have to offer, other than to skip the question entirely.  Wouldn't make much left for a discussion, or for replies in seeking answers, would it?




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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 7:39:27 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		This is a 2  post.  If I am honest with the op's then I piss off both the op and the mod. So I  think it is best to just give a generic answer to everything. Most of the posters don't take any advice given to them anyway.

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RE: Making assumptions and casting blame - 5/9/2008 8:01:43 AM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline 		I have often wondered about this Erin. My feeling is that a lot of people honestly want to help others even if their help is ill-informed, kind of like the knight in shining armour complex.  So when a person gives a vague explanation about their dilemma...which of course is their subjective view, people rush to 'fix' the problem for the person.  It's a nice feeling to think you have sorted out someone elses life, being able to cut through the crap and say leave them or they were bastards etc.  I must admit to being a cynic so when I read those posts more often than not my first thought is ....what haven't they told us about their part in the problem?

It would be wonderful if people's problems were that easy to solve but I kind of like the fact that our lives are so much more complex and to use a narrative therapy term which is quite apt here...our lives are multi-storeyed/storied.  It keeps me in a job.

< Message edited by wandersalone -- 5/9/2008 8:02:42 AM >

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