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Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 4:44:03 AM

RedViolets

Posts: 5
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline

I know of a sub who, from my understanding, is collared to a Master. They are having some problems and she has turned to another Dominant for help. It is my understanding also that she has contacted numerous Dominants about this situation. One Dominant has assumed the role as her Mentor to the point of where I believe he is controlling her sexuality. Not through physical sex but via other means, like forbidding her to use her sex toys. To my knowledge the Master is not aware that his sub has gone to another and ask him to mentor her. My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?". This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

***Edited as I mispelled "another" the first time around.

< Message edited by RedViolets -- 4/28/2007 5:34:02 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 4:51:15 AM

kemicca

Posts: 4
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline

In any kind of relationship, even vanilla, it shows a tremendous lack of respect to go behind your partners back and initiate another intimate relationship.

The guage I usually use: Is this something I would be comfortable letting my partner know about? If the answer is no, than for me it is unethical. I would not want to be in a relationship where I did not feel I could be completely honest with my partner.

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 2

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 4:56:27 AM

NakedGirlScout

Posts: 370
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Toronto
Status: offline

That's sort of crazy, how clueless can her Master be to not notice that she's talking to lots of other men, or one in particular, and that her behavior has changed to the point that she's obeying somebody else? She may have initiated this, but I think they're BOTH wrong.

(in reply to kemicca)

Post #: 3

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 5:10:09 AM

WilliamWizer

Posts: 223
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

I know of a sub who, from my understanding, is collared to a Master. They are having some problems and she has turned to another Dominant for help. It is my understanding also that she has contacted numerous Dominants about this situation. One Dominant has assumed the role as her Mentor to the point of where I believe he is controlling her sexuality. Not through physical sex but via other means, like forbidding her to use her sex toys. To my knowledge the Master is not aware that his sub has gone to another and ask him to mentor her. My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?". This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

a Dom mentoring another Master's sub can be ethical, right and useful (the slave learns how to better serve her master). doing so without the Master's consent no (unless, of course, we are speaking about an abusive master or things like that.)

_____________________________

There's only two rules for a sub:
- she can do anything her Master didn't forbid her.
- she only needs to do what her Master told her to do.

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 4

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 5:28:49 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets
My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?".

In the context you refer to.....of course it's not.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 5

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 5:32:06 AM

RedViolets

Posts: 5
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WilliamWizer

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

I know of a sub who, from my understanding, is collared to a Master. They are having some problems and she has turned to another Dominant for help. It is my understanding also that she has contacted numerous Dominants about this situation. One Dominant has assumed the role as her Mentor to the point of where I believe he is controlling her sexuality. Not through physical sex but via other means, like forbidding her to use her sex toys. To my knowledge the Master is not aware that his sub has gone to another and ask him to mentor her. My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?". This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

a Dom mentoring another Master's sub can be ethical, right and useful (the slave learns how to better serve her master). doing so without the Master's consent no (unless, of course, we are speaking about an abusive master or things like that.)

It is my understanding from the Mentor that the sub feels as if her Master is mistreating her. It is my understanding that he is training her to be a pain slut. He states in his profile that he is sadistic as well as polyamory, which is another thing the sub objects to. What I do not understand if why she became his sub if she was not into the pain and poly. I truly believe the Mentor only wants to help her but I think she is being devious and cannot be trusted. The Mentor told me that she made a date with another man and he instructed her that she should not go out on a date without informing her Master. If she has no problem dating other men outside her M/s relationship with her Master, then how can she object to him being poly? Since I have not talked to her personally (although the Mentor has asked me to speak with her and I intend to do so) I only have his views, meaning the Mentor, on the matter. I only know what she has told him. And of course, I have not spoken to her Master at all. That is not my place to do so.

(in reply to WilliamWizer)

Post #: 6

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 5:37:39 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

She is doing what she is doing without informed consent. In my opinion, informed consent is the very basis that this lifestyle develops from. If we don't have at least that we might as well just chuck all the rest of it. What she is doing speaks volumes, not only of her character but also of the "helpful Mentor". Any Dominant with an ounce of integrity would not play a part in her deception....in my not so humble opinion.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 4/28/2007 5:38:14 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 7

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 5:43:53 AM

WilliamWizer

Posts: 223
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

quote:

ORIGINAL: WilliamWizer

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

I know of a sub who, from my understanding, is collared to a Master. They are having some problems and she has turned to another Dominant for help. It is my understanding also that she has contacted numerous Dominants about this situation. One Dominant has assumed the role as her Mentor to the point of where I believe he is controlling her sexuality. Not through physical sex but via other means, like forbidding her to use her sex toys. To my knowledge the Master is not aware that his sub has gone to another and ask him to mentor her. My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?". This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

a Dom mentoring another Master's sub can be ethical, right and useful (the slave learns how to better serve her master). doing so without the Master's consent no (unless, of course, we are speaking about an abusive master or things like that.)

It is my understanding from the Mentor that the sub feels as if her Master is mistreating her. It is my understanding that he is training her to be a pain slut. He states in his profile that he is sadistic as well as polyamory, which is another thing the sub objects to. What I do not understand if why she became his sub if she was not into the pain and poly. I truly believe the Mentor only wants to help her but I think she is being devious and cannot be trusted. The Mentor told me that she made a date with another man and he instructed her that she should not go out on a date without informing her Master. If she has no problem dating other men outside her M/s relationship with her Master, then how can she object to him being poly? Since I have not talked to her personally (although the Mentor has asked me to speak with her and I intend to do so) I only have his views, meaning the Mentor, on the matter. I only know what she has told him. And of course, I have not spoken to her Master at all. That is not my place to do so.

thank you for explainig it.
I too don't understand why she became his sub or why she hasn't break a relationship where she doesn't feel happy. I think that it will be wise to speak to her and try to see what is happeing but there's one thing that rises suspicions.
she made a date with another man without her master's consent and after being instructed by her mentor to not go into that date without informing him. I have not spoken to any of them so I shouldn't judge but from what you explain I wouldn't trust her easily.

_____________________________

There's only two rules for a sub:
- she can do anything her Master didn't forbid her.
- she only needs to do what her Master told her to do.

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 8

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 5:58:05 AM

Guru

Posts: 3
Joined: 5/10/2006
Status: offline

IMO a mentor may guide, not command unless the master has expressly allowed it for training or other purposes. I do not believe that to be the case here. A respectful mentor will inform the master and ask what is allowed or not allowed. That on the part of the mentor in an of itself is wrong. The fact that the sub is doing so behind the masters back is even worse and the desire of her to set up a meeting with yet another person clearly means she is not committed, not ready and not strong enough for the relationship she is in. She should be released from her master and I do not think she is ready for this kind of relationship as attractive as the idea may seem to her.

(in reply to WilliamWizer)

Post #: 9

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 6:13:24 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

I know of a sub who, from my understanding, is collared to a Master. They are having some problems and she has turned to another Dominant for help. It is my understanding also that she has contacted numerous Dominants about this situation. One Dominant has assumed the role as her Mentor to the point of where I believe he is controlling her sexuality. Not through physical sex but via other means, like forbidding her to use her sex toys. To my knowledge the Master is not aware that his sub has gone to another and ask him to mentor her. My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?". This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

***Edited as I mispelled "another" the first time around.

she is on a one way trip to dismissal! I can't speak for everyone, just for Myself but I view this situation as a betrayal of her Master by the sub. Behind his back, against the dynamic that has been agreed to........ UNLESS she is simply a playpartner and not His responcibility in times they are not together.

A sub or slave of Mine that did such would be out the door so fast their head would spin once I found out.

To make it clear, if the second Dom is aware of the situation.... then he is no Dom at all and has NO respect for the dynamic. In My experience, those who have no respect for anothers dynamic have no respect for any dynamic even if it is supposedly with themself.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 10

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 6:33:54 AM

RedViolets

Posts: 5
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline

Thank you all for your responses so far. Most of you are expressing the same concerns I have about the situation but then I could be biased as I am sure you have all gathered this Mentor and I are close. To be honest, he is my Mentor also. I truly believe he wants nothing more than to Mentor her and help with her with her situation but I feel she is being devious and using this Mentor.

I have voiced my concerns to him. I have told him I feel it is devious on her part to contact other Dominants and involve them in her problems with her Master. My Mentor is not the only Dominant she has contacted. It is my understanding she has contacted others seeking their help also. I told my Mentor that I felt she should either contact another submissive for advice or turn to the message boards as this is what I would do. If I had a problem with my Mentor, I would never go to another Dominant for advice. I would seek out a submissive or ask for advice on the boards. Which is exactly what I am doing. Seeking advice and insight into this situation.

My Mentor has informed me that since this troubles me he will step aside and not mentor her afterall. But we had a heart to heart talk yesterday, face to face, and I truly believe he desires to help her. But I think his overwhelming desire to help her is clouding his perspective on the situation. He has not said so in so many words but I think he feels I am being jealous and insecure as I was his only student/protege until this other sub came along. And he could be right which is why I am coming to the boards for unbiased opinions. While I do understand that is is possible and most likely probable for a Mentor to have more than one student/protege at a time, I feel it is too soon for him to take on another student, esp one that already has a Master. As in any relationship, vanilla or otherwise, Dominant/sub, Master/slave or Mentor/student, the relationship should be solid before adding another. My relationship with my Mentor is only 5 weeks old and while we have bonded, I do not think it is as solid as it could be. Yesterday was the first time we met in person at my request. We have always communicated via the Internet and had not even conversed over the phone until yesteday.

Again as you can see this situation troubles me and I do appreciate all the insight and opinions. This is CollarMe at it best.

(in reply to Guru)

Post #: 11

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 6:35:18 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Anyone can do anything they want as long as it's open and sincerely ok with everyone.

THIS particular case is cheating- so it's not ok. If the master knew and gave the ok on it, then it would be fine.

It sounds like a very common case of playing the field- she's got her "safety dom" and then she goes around getting lots of other doms interested for the other things she wants.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 12

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 7:06:31 AM

NakedGirlScout

Posts: 370
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Toronto
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

He has not said so in so many words but I think he feels I am being jealous and insecure as I was his only student/protege until this other sub came along. And he could be right which is why I am coming to the boards for unbiased opinions. While I do understand that is is possible and most likely probable for a Mentor to have more than one student/protege at a time, I feel it is too soon for him to take on another student, esp one that already has a Master. As in any relationship, vanilla or otherwise, Dominant/sub, Master/slave or Mentor/student, the relationship should be solid before adding another.

Whoa hold on... topic change.

In my experience, a mentoring relationship does not run on the same dynamics as an ownership relationship. I am getting a feeling... just a feeling from your words here... that you've become closer to this man and see him as more than a mentor, even if you explicitly state that he's your mentor.

There's just a little something in the undercurrent here, something about your admission that you may be feeling jealous of this mentor taking on mentoring another submissive, and then your attempt to protect him from his own mentorship of another woman on whatever grounds; how can he mentor anybody if he isn't able to make excellent decisions, such as whom to mentor and under what conditions?

I'm not trying to be scolding here, but I suspect that there is more to this than you've said so far, and that your feelings for this mentor have crossed the line of what the stated relationship was. I do not think it's a good idea for you to take the matter of speaking to this other lady into your own hands; that's the mentor's job, you know. If I were in your place, I'd be spending the energy instead on exploring my own feelings and motives for the feelings this new situation has raised in you.

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 13

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 7:13:18 AM

Elorin

Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets
My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?".

The answer to the question is, as it many times is in BDSM, it depends on the people and situation involved.

I have mentored many submissives. Some of them have belonged to other dominants. There are occasions when a submissive asked for my guidance and advice without discussing it with their dom/me first. However, all that I provided was my opinion. I shared how I felt about a situation and that was it. In other circumstances the dominant knew the sub was coming to me for advice, mentoring, training. I think that all of those situations are ethical.

I would think that it is unethical for a mentor to attempt to control or train another Master's submissive without that Master's consent. I would not try to show a sub fire play, violet wand play, or fist a sub without having spoken directly to the owner to know what is ok and what is not. I do not find it unethical to share my opinion with a submissive and give them guidance "well, if you are worried about that, you should talk to him about it. maybe having a journal would help you" if they are owned by someone else. But I would not do things like say "Go talk to your Master tomorrow" or "You will write in a journal every day." as the right of control and command belongs to the other Master.

I would say, from the situation you described, that the submissive is behaving in an unethical manner, and the Mentor has done things that I would find questionable also.

~E

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 14

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 7:15:41 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

Whatever your feelings, the key point is that her Master doesn't know. That means whatever your friend maybe wanting to do if he acts then he acts against that other dynamic and has no respect for it. If he has concerns, he can voice those concerns then leave the girl to make her own mind up, that is fine but taking her on, becoming her Mentor without the knowledge of the other Dom..... he would be party to betrayal, cheating... sex or no sex, we are dealing with the D/s dynamic here.

Unless the girl is just a playpartner and it is upto her what she does when away from her Dom (In which case there would be no problem), if she is supposed to be answerable to the Dom at all times, then your friend needs to take a long hard look at his own respect for the dynamic and his own ethics.... also his own 'adgenda' in this case.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to NakedGirlScout)

Post #: 15

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 7:22:39 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?"

Sure it is; as long as all parties are aware of what is happening.

However, what really get's me in this little scenario is that the so called mentor has no ethics what-so-ever about discussing this girls relationship with you.

Oh well, to each their own.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 16

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 7:25:50 AM

NControlofU

Posts: 204
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

There's nothing unethical about mentoring or even using another Master's sub, so long as the Master of the sub has given permission. Without his knowledge and permission, it is wrong, disrespectful and dishonorable for the sub and the other dominant to do anything together, even to communicate with each other. This sub is, in my opinion, "shopping" for another Master while still belonging to her current Master. This is nothing more than an illicit affair and it is absolute grounds for her Master to uncollar her and dismiss her immediately.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets
My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?". This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

***Edited as I mispelled "another" the first time around.

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 17

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 7:46:05 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

RedVoilets, if this is done without the sub's masters knowledge or consent, and the mentor is aware the master is in the dark about everything, then he's not being the kind of mentor i would want anything to do with. He is assuming to know better then the girl's master what to do for the girl. If i were him my first advice to the girl would be - ask for release because if he is a sadist and into poly and you aren't you made a mistake in choosing him as your master. At least it would get her thinking about her decision. In essence he's not her master if she goes to others - she's taken the control away from him - it's a charade and she's making a fool of him.

You state he is your mentor as well and that you have not had enough "bonding time" with him. Maybe i don't understand the dynamics of mentoring but i wouldn't think a sub would want or need to bond with her mentor. A mentor is temporary, why would you want to become emotionally attached to someone who could never be your dominant? If you are feeling jealous at all, i think you should step back and examine the situation and rethink things before you end up getting hurt.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to NControlofU)

Post #: 18

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 8:12:41 AM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

If her Master that she is collared to does not know then no it isn't right. She belongs to him and should be talking to him about problems in the relationship and not getting her jollies on the side with others. It shows lack of respect on her part. If she does this with her Masters consent then there isn't a problem.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 19

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 8:18:58 AM

arayofsunshine55

Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

Thank you all for your responses so far. Most of you are expressing the same concerns I have about the situation but then I could be biased as I am sure you have all gathered this Mentor and I are close. To be honest, he is my Mentor also. I truly believe he wants nothing more than to Mentor her and help with her with her situation but I feel she is being devious and using this Mentor.

I have voiced my concerns to him. I have told him I feel it is devious on her part to contact other Dominants and involve them in her problems with her Master. My Mentor is not the only Dominant she has contacted. It is my understanding she has contacted others seeking their help also. I told my Mentor that I felt she should either contact another submissive for advice or turn to the message boards as this is what I would do. If I had a problem with my Mentor, I would never go to another Dominant for advice. I would seek out a submissive or ask for advice on the boards. Which is exactly what I am doing. Seeking advice and insight into this situation.

My Mentor has informed me that since this troubles me he will step aside and not mentor her afterall. But we had a heart to heart talk yesterday, face to face, and I truly believe he desires to help her. But I think his overwhelming desire to help her is clouding his perspective on the situation. He has not said so in so many words but I think he feels I am being jealous and insecure as I was his only student/protege until this other sub came along. And he could be right which is why I am coming to the boards for unbiased opinions. While I do understand that is is possible and most likely probable for a Mentor to have more than one student/protege at a time, I feel it is too soon for him to take on another student, esp one that already has a Master. As in any relationship, vanilla or otherwise, Dominant/sub, Master/slave or Mentor/student, the relationship should be solid before adding another. My relationship with my Mentor is only 5 weeks old and while we have bonded, I do not think it is as solid as it could be. Yesterday was the first time we met in person at my request. We have always communicated via the Internet and had not even conversed over the phone until yesteday.

Again as you can see this situation troubles me and I do appreciate all the insight and opinions. This is CollarMe at it best.

Well he is clearly not as concerned about it as you are and he's the one in some kind of relationship with her. He's not being used, he knows exactly what he's doing. She's not being devious with your mentor, he knows the situation and he's willingly entered into it for his own reasons. So why are you so concerned on his behalf?

I think your concern about his may have some roots in jealousy which is fine. I'd focus on you and him rather than what she's doing with some other guy. And that might mean you want her out and it seems he's given you that option. Maybe you should think of exercising it.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 20

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