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RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 9:34:54 AM

minnetar

Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline

So many excellent responses here. i agree that this isn't ethical as the Master doesn't know what is going on. i believe the sub should ask for her release. i also too think that the Mentor isn't acting in anyone's best interests by what he is doing. i would also question why you would want to be involved with someone who isn't showing the greatest deal of intellect in handling this.

minnetar

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 21

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 9:59:25 AM

Stranger1

Posts: 219
Joined: 4/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

I know of a sub who, from my understanding, is collared to a Master. They are having some problems and she has turned to another Dominant for help. It is my understanding also that she has contacted numerous Dominants about this situation. One Dominant has assumed the role as her Mentor to the point of where I believe he is controlling her sexuality. Not through physical sex but via other means, like forbidding her to use her sex toys. To my knowledge the Master is not aware that his sub has gone to another and ask him to mentor her. My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?". This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

***Edited as I mispelled "another" the first time around.

If I were the master in question-I'd be wondering why I was bothering. We'd have a little talk about what was the problem, and I would confront these other men. My trust would be pretty shakey by then-I have been in situations like this before. If I had then seen that she had *allowed* herself to be taken advantage of (takes two to tango dears-no such thing as a victim when the door is open) I'd be done.

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 22

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 10:39:52 AM

TigressFL

Posts: 239
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

I know of a sub who, from my understanding, is collared to a Master. They are having some problems and she has turned to another Dominant for help. It is my understanding also that she has contacted numerous Dominants about this situation. One Dominant has assumed the role as her Mentor to the point of where I believe he is controlling her sexuality. Not through physical sex but via other means, like forbidding her to use her sex toys. To my knowledge the Master is not aware that his sub has gone to another and ask him to mentor her. My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?". This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

***Edited as I mispelled "another" the first time around.

This sounds shady to me. No one should be doing anything with or to a sub or slave without the owners knowledge and consent, period. The only exception is if the person is in an abusive relationship and someone trying to help them get out of it safely because the sub or slave WANTS out be but is terrified.

Tigress~FL

edited for terrible typing

< Message edited by TigressFL -- 4/28/2007 11:35:04 AM >

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 23

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 11:13:32 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

Replying to no one in particular here other than the OP:

Personally, I'd approach this from the point of view of it being a relationship...forget for a moment whether it's a D/s relationship, M/s relationship or alien/earthling relationship for all that matters and I'd look at my part in it.

A) If you share your information and your point of view with the woman in question, you are, in effect, butting into her relationship. You are, whether you agree with her or not, including yourself in her subterfuge with her Master.

B) If your assumptions (hearing it from only the mentor in question here) are incorrect, you are labeled by the submissive as being intrusive.

C) If your assumptions are correct and you don't say anything to the dominant that's being cheated on, whether you think it's your position to say anything to him or not, HE'S going to include you in the list of people who betrayed him when he finds out.

D) If your assumptions are correct and you DO say something to the dominant, whether you think it's your position to say anything to him or not, YOUR mentor is going to think of you as someone who talks too much - even though your involvement is because he asked you to.

D) If your assumptions are incorrect and you DO say something to the dominant being cheated on, even if you do believe it was right to do so, that dominant is going to see you as being someone trying to nose into his relationship, and be angry about THAT.

No matter which way you go, if you get involved in this, you're going to acquire some enemies out there - and possibly a bad name around your given community to boot.

Personally, I'd be telling my mentor (note: not Master, but even THEN, I'd be telling him the same thing, albiet in a different manner) that this is not something I'm comfortable doing. I'd remind him that if he indeed IS my mentor and not something more than that, he should understand that jealousy has nothing to do with anything. I'd also ask why he believes I'd be jealous of someone ELSE'S relationship and problems.

And then, I'd leave it all alone...there's no "win" situation here, only "lose lose lose" on every front.

And if your mentor has difficulty understanding and/or accepting your view on this, I'd be considering that perhaps he's taught you all he has to teach and now the mentor is being taught by the student, and it's time to move on, or at the very least, leave things at "just friends."

Furthermore, if that girl ASKS you your opinion regarding what she should do, I'd suggest telling her that you just KNOW she'll make the right decision for her and nothing more.

juliet

(in reply to TigressFL)

Post #: 24

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 11:16:34 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets
My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?"

At face value I'd say yes of course, to this question. I have received mentoring from another Master (didn't call it that, but he helped me sort through some things so I could better serve my Master), but my Master knew all about it. It was simply a case of a series of conversations to help me think and gain better understanding. We conversed by way of email and before we ever spoke on the phone, I asked my Master's permission to do so, and later told him what was discussed. The friend of mine also made it clear from the start that there were no ulterior motives, and was pleased to know I had already sought my Master's permission. No harm, no foul.

Doing anything behind my Master's back would be unethical and contrary to who I am and what my Master expects of me. If I allowed anyone other than my Master to control me, I'd soon be without a Master.

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 25

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 11:21:48 AM

tricia

Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

she is on a one way trip to dismissal! I can't speak for everyone, just for Myself but I view this situation as a betrayal of her Master by the sub. Behind his back, against the dynamic that has been agreed to........ UNLESS she is simply a playpartner and not His responcibility in times they are not together.

A sub or slave of Mine that did such would be out the door so fast their head would spin once I found out.

To make it clear, if the second Dom is aware of the situation.... then he is no Dom at all and has NO respect for the dynamic. In My experience, those who have no respect for anothers dynamic have no respect for any dynamic even if it is supposedly with themself.

I agree.

I'll also add it sounds as if this girl likes portraying herself as a 'victim' of some sorts. Perhaps she is truly looking for a knight in shining armour and not a dominant/master.

(in reply to arayofsunshine55)

Post #: 26

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 11:32:48 AM

RedViolets

Posts: 5
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline

I really appreciate all the opinions given. Yes I do realize I tend to forget he is just my Mentor. Perhaps that is because he had told me that he is considering me as a sub for him someday. The mentoring period is suppose to help us get to know each before taking that step so with that in mind it is easy for me to cross that imaginary line from Mentor to Master without realizing it. This is why I came to the boards. To see if I can sort all this out. Everyone has given great opinions and I have a lot to think about. Thank you all.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 27

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 11:36:38 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

I really appreciate all the opinions given. Yes I do realize I tend to forget he is just my Mentor. Perhaps that is because he had told me that he is considering me as a sub for him someday. The mentoring period is suppose to help us get to know each before taking that step so with that in mind it is easy for me to cross that imaginary line from Mentor to Master without realizing it. This is why I came to the boards. To see if I can sort all this out. Everyone has given great opinions and I have a lot to think about. Thank you all.

A lot of guys use this tactic as a way to get you to let your guard down by making it look like a safe step.

Instead of making you fully in control and calling it dating, you get the warm fuzzies of feeling "mentored" while he gets to keep the competition at bay.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 28

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 11:39:50 AM

cjenny

Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

I know of a sub who, from my understanding, is collared to a Master. They are having some problems and she has turned to another Dominant for help. It is my understanding also that she has contacted numerous Dominants about this situation. One Dominant has assumed the role as her Mentor to the point of where I believe he is controlling her sexuality. Not through physical sex but via other means, like forbidding her to use her sex toys. To my knowledge the Master is not aware that his sub has gone to another and ask him to mentor her. My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?". This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

***Edited as I mispelled "another" the first time around.

You don't seem to know any of this as factual, that makes me wonder about your motivation. How do you know that her master is unaware? He may be fully supportive of her seeking the thoughts of others. If even your dominant has raised the question of possible jealousy you might want to take a close look at why you have inserted yourself into this situation.
As to the question of is it ethical for a dominant to mentor anothers sub, if it is indeed mentoring then I see no reason why not. If he is actually mentoring her with care I imagine he would also be in contact with her master. What exactly puzzles you?
Mentorship?
Or why you have to share the attention of your own dominant while he mentors another submissive?
Mentoring doesn't always mean that something underhanded or devious is going on although that does happen.
I don't want to sound cynical but it really sounds like you have something personal with a situation that doesn't involve you.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.

~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 29

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 11:43:59 AM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

RedVoilets, if this is done without the sub's masters knowledge or consent, and the mentor is aware the master is in the dark about everything, then he's not being the kind of mentor i would want anything to do with.

this pretty much sums it up....i would STRONGLY warn against geeting too involved with a man that demonstrates such little reguard for another persons relationship. it makes the mentor appear to have no honor

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 30

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 12:10:01 PM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

I really appreciate all the opinions given. Yes I do realize I tend to forget he is just my Mentor. Perhaps that is because he had told me that he is considering me as a sub for him someday. The mentoring period is suppose to help us get to know each before taking that step so with that in mind it is easy for me to cross that imaginary line from Mentor to Master without realizing it. This is why I came to the boards. To see if I can sort all this out. Everyone has given great opinions and I have a lot to think about. Thank you all.

If he is considering you for his sub, then he isn't your mentor he's your potential dom and you are under his consideration. A mentor is not suppossed to get emotionally involved/sexually involved with his mentee. He is supposed to guide you, keep you safe, etc. He has told you he is interested in you as his sub, therein ends his being your mentor.

There has to be something that differentiates a mentor from an interested dom. i have heard many say it's unethical for a mentor to take a sub on that he's mentored. It's seen as manipulation and dishonest - a breach of trust. Personally i don't buy into the whole "mentoring" deal - i am a grown adult and quite capable of making my own decision regarding people i want in my life and choices to be made concerning them.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 31

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 1:13:27 PM

HouseofBear

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/9/2005
Status: offline

I see nor problem with mentoring an own submissive as long as it is with her dominant's approval. However, I do see several problems here. Everyone may have their own viewpoint of a Mentor. When we mentor someone there is no play with them, nor commands/control. It is more of the role of helping them learn about the lifestyle and themelves, mainly through discussion and usually by asking them questions to get them to think about how they feel, what they need, what they think about something. To us a Mentor can be a teacher, a friend, a big brother/sister, or a shoulder to cry on...but never a playbuddy or that person's dominant. When we take on a mentor relationship with someone, we are giving them that for life, and therefore they can never be collared by us.

(in reply to arayofsunshine55)

Post #: 32

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 3:09:18 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HouseofBear

I see nor problem with mentoring an own submissive as long as it is with her dominant's approval. However, I do see several problems here. Everyone may have their own viewpoint of a Mentor. When we mentor someone there is no play with them, nor commands/control. It is more of the role of helping them learn about the lifestyle and themelves, mainly through discussion and usually by asking them questions to get them to think about how they feel, what they need, what they think about something. To us a Mentor can be a teacher, a friend, a big brother/sister, or a shoulder to cry on...but never a playbuddy or that person's dominant. When we take on a mentor relationship with someone, we are giving them that for life, and therefore they can never be collared by us.

I tend to agree with this view of mentoring, with a slight exception, after a period of time outside of the mentoring relationship if the dom and sub desire to consumate a relationship I do not see it as forever unethical, it is not something someone should engage in as far as jump from mentoring directly to a power exchange either.

I will state this for the benefit of the OP, if she finds benefit in this. A mentoring relationship implies that you have less knowledge and wherewithall to negotiate a dynamic openly with someone in your own best interests. A mentor has much information that they have acquired about you that can keep you from being able to enter into a true power exchange consensually. In other words, in my opinion, a D/s dynamic that is negotiated with someone already in a less powerful position has lost elements of consent. This is an abuse of power by the mentor in my opinion. And this behavior is unethical. So this dominant is not only showing a lack of honor by advising a collared submissive without the knowledge of her dom (which is unethical in my opinion), but he has also used a mentee/mentor relationship for his own ends (which is also unethical in my opinion).The honorable thing to do once he figured out his feelings for you were not those of a mentor/mentee was to end that relationship and stay friends for a long while. That is just my opinion.

I get the sense that all of these interrelationships are online, not in the real world, which gives it an extra sense of drama in my mind.. but I may be mistaken

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/28/2007 3:10:15 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to HouseofBear)

Post #: 33

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 6:34:07 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

Ach! there is not one thing right IMO about that whole scenerio, not one person innocent in any of it.Maybe all deserve each other..first you have subbie with an abusive Master who goes behind abusive Masters back seeking protection??or who knows what, and to top that she is also seeking other Dominants as well..then you have Mentor with his own agenda it seems, ..then you have Mentors other sub( possibly in waiting)who may be coming from a place of insecurity and jealousy. And these too are the Days of our BDSM lives......stay tuned...Tempting

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 34

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 6:40:16 PM

SadisticMan

Posts: 143
Joined: 8/19/2006
From: Columbus, OH
Status: offline

the dysfunctional D/s relationship

_____________________________

We are looking into forming a committe to look into a study to discuss the possibilities of making recommendations to the chair so that it may be considered as an option sometime in the near future, at least we're thinking about it.

(in reply to arayofsunshine55)

Post #: 35

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 6:51:46 PM

Asraii

Posts: 91
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

I know of a sub who, from my understanding, is collared to a Master. They are having some problems and she has turned to another Dominant for help. It is my understanding also that she has contacted numerous Dominants about this situation. One Dominant has assumed the role as her Mentor to the point of where I believe he is controlling her sexuality. Not through physical sex but via other means, like forbidding her to use her sex toys. To my knowledge the Master is not aware that his sub has gone to another and ask him to mentor her. My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?". This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

***Edited as I mispelled "another" the first time around.

Removing all the aspects of 'assumptions' from your post, I am only going to focus on the actual question that you asked.

Is it ethical for another Dominant to mentor another Master's submissive?

Keeping in mind that everyone views things differently, my own answer would be yes, it is ethical. I have come across quite a few in real life who do this for different reasons.

Now, on the other side though; when one or the other is not aware that outside help is being sought; then it becomes an issue of values. There are some who have very good reasons for keeping something like this a secret; it is not up to me to decide if it's right or wrong. It's not something that I agree with; but that's neither here nor there.

_____________________________

Nothing prevents happiness like the memory of happiness
Andre Gide

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 36

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 7:27:30 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

quote:

This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

thats not puzzling, that is your BS metor trying to alert you that your friend is on the make.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to arayofsunshine55)

Post #: 37

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 8:44:51 PM

RedViolets

Posts: 5
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline

Thank you all for your help. I am not the jealous type. I have searched and searched my heart and soul to be sure it is not jealousy. It is not. After doing all the soul searching and reading and re-reading all the responses here, I have made the decision to end my relationship with my Mentor. I want no part of what is going on. It seems to me to be a path of destruction and deceit. And way too many red flags waving strongly in the wind.

Thank you again for all responses.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 38

RE: Mentoring another Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 8:45:43 PM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

I know of a sub who, from my understanding, is collared to a Master. They are having some problems and she has turned to another Dominant for help. It is my understanding also that she has contacted numerous Dominants about this situation. One Dominant has assumed the role as her Mentor to the point of where I believe he is controlling her sexuality. Not through physical sex but via other means, like forbidding her to use her sex toys. To my knowledge the Master is not aware that his sub has gone to another and ask him to mentor her. My question is "Is right and ethical for another Dominant to Mentor another Master's sub?". This situation greatly puzzles me and I would appreciate some comments and opinions on this.

***Edited as I mispelled "another" the first time around.

This isn't mentoring

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 39

RE: Mentoring aniother Master's sub: - 4/28/2007 8:47:31 PM

minnetar

Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedViolets

Thank you all for your help. I am not the jealous type. I have searched and searched my heart and soul to be sure it is not jealousy. It is not. After doing all the soul searching and reading and re-reading all the responses here, I have made the decision to end my relationship with my Mentor. I want no part of what is going on. It seems to me to be a path of destruction and deceit. And way too many red flags waving strongly in the wind.

Thank you again for all responses.

i wish you the best with your decision. Just know we are here to support you. i don't feel you need to settle and need something that is healthy!!

minnetar

(in reply to RedViolets)

Post #: 40

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