quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

Just read in today's LA Times that the California prison guard's union, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association, is likely to reject a new contract that would have given them an 18% pay raise because they also want to have the right to file grievances over minor changes in prison operations.  Some examples of situations in which the union objected included a changes in the standard for transporting prisoners, the purchase of a cardio-pulmonary resuscitation device, and a requirement that guards perform more frequent checks on inmates in solitary confinement to prevent suicides.

I'm normally pro-union, but I did a bit of checking on this--the average salary for a California prison guard is $70,000/yr, and very often that figure rises to $100,000 year with overtime.  So essentially, these guards *rejected* a pay increase of $14,000+ /yr because they think they deserve the right to veto every little decision made.  $84,000-$118,000 a year for a job a monkey could do!  Meanwhile, the average salary for a Master Sergeant (specialist) in the US Army with 20 years of service is $50,000 /yr.  So is a California prison twice as dangerous as a street in Iraq?  Sounds rather ridiculous to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411


$84,000-$118,000 a year for a job a monkey could do! 

quote:

So is a California prison twice as dangerous as a street in Iraq?  Sounds rather ridiculous to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

The most dangerous industry in terms of total killed was construction, where 1,186 workers died. The rate of 11.0 per 100,000, however, trailed the agricultural segment (32.5 per 100,000), which included fishing and logging; mining (25.6 per 100,000); and transportation and warehousing (17.6 per 100,000), where many drivers died in traffic accidents."

quote:

I'm sure it's quite dangerous to work in a prison, but the question is whether it's $100k/yr dangerous.  Or if you think about it in terms of my comparison with 20 year US Army veteran at the rank of Master Sergeant, is it 100% more dangerous than being in a military at war?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

Do I feel that what the union negotiations are trying to achieve are ridiculous/unreasonable? No I don't.

quote:

Before complaining about 100K being overpaid for a prison guard, I would ask 2 questions.

quote:

On another point, the rejection of the contract may not have been wholly based on pay at all. There may be numerous fine print items that are unacceptable in the mediation that no amount of money in raise will make acceptable. What might be a little decision to someone outside of the prison atmosphere may be a huge decision when you're the person inside it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

I'm sure it's quite dangerous to work in a prison, but the question is whether it's $100k/yr dangerous.  Or if you think about it in terms of my comparison with 20 year US Army veteran at the rank of Master Sergeant, is it 100% more dangerous than being in a military at war?

But yes, the rejection is not due to the pay issue; it's due to the issue of shop democracy, which is something I generally support.  It's a lot easier to support shop democracy when it's garment workers making $14,000/yr asking for living wage than it is to support prison guards making $100k+ a year asking for the right to protest against every tiny change in prison operations.  Shoot, the union even filed a grievance because they were given paid time to attend a conference! (They wanted paid time off to attend union meetings as well).

Back to the question of safety, here's some intersting statistics:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/16/pf/2005_most_dangerous_jobs/index.htm

"Assaults and other violent acts contributed to danger in the workplace: 14 percent of all fatalities were due to these. Fifty policemen and sheriff's patrol officers were murdered on the job, and another 81 died in traffic accidents and other incidents. The tragic toll added up to 18.2 fatalities per 100,000 workers.
The most dangerous industry in terms of total killed was construction, where 1,186 workers died. The rate of 11.0 per 100,000, however, trailed the agricultural segment (32.5 per 100,000), which included fishing and logging; mining (25.6 per 100,000); and transportation and warehousing (17.6 per 100,000), where many drivers died in traffic accidents."
I don't know if that statistic for officers includes prison guards, but something tells me that the average pay for construction workers, coal miners, fishermen, and truck drivers isn't $100k/yr.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     It's not just little changes in policy.  It's little changes in policy dictated by bureaucrats who have probably never had a face-to-face encounter with a genuinely bad bit of human refuse, much less been into a cellblock themselves.  Nifty little ideas that seem so good on paper, to people who don't know what they are talking about.  I call the phenomenon "forgetting about the gravity."

    Those 'little policy changes" that might save a $1 or $2 can be the difference between life and death in the real world those office pukes have no conception of.  The guards are damn right to insist on having recourse.

      I wouldn't do that job for twice the money they make now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

    It's not just little changes in policy.  It's little changes in policy dictated by bureaucrats who have probably never had a face-to-face encounter with a genuinely bad bit of human refuse, much less been into a cellblock themselves.  Nifty little ideas that seem so good on paper, to people who don't know what they are talking about.  I call the phenomenon "forgetting about the gravity."

   Those 'little policy changes" that might save a $1 or $2 can be the difference between life and death in the real world those office pukes have no conception of.  The guards are damn right to insist on having recourse.

     I wouldn't do that job for twice the money they make now.

I have been in underemployment hell when AnenecephalyBoy offshored my industry to India.

There are any number of jobs I would do if the alternative was starvation and poverty.

I have nothing but respect for the person willing to do those jobs.

Sinergy