Get rich fast--become a prison guard!

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selfbnd411 -> Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 12:32:23 PM)
Just read in today's LA Times that the California prison guard's union, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association, is likely to reject a new contract that would have given them an 18% pay raise because they also want to have the right to file grievances over minor changes in prison operations. Some examples of situations in which the union objected included a changes in the standard for transporting prisoners, the purchase of a cardio-pulmonary resuscitation device, and a requirement that guards perform more frequent checks on inmates in solitary confinement to prevent suicides. I'm normally pro-union, but I did a bit of checking on this--the average salary for a California prison guard is $70,000/yr, and very often that figure rises to $100,000 year with overtime. So essentially, these guards rejected a pay increase of $14,000+ /yr because they think they deserve the right to veto every little decision made. $84,000-$118,000 a year for a job a monkey could do! Meanwhile, the average salary for a Master Sergeant (specialist) in the US Army with 20 years of service is $50,000 /yr. So is a California prison twice as dangerous as a street in Iraq? Sounds rather ridiculous to me.

Pulpsmack -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 1:01:07 PM)
I suspect there is some valid criticism there, but I wouldn't swallow that assessment wholesale. If they are rejecting that offere it may very well be that the extra $$$ isn't worth the shit they have to put up with. I have dated a CO, and I have heard other accounts, and I sure as hell wouldn't want that job for all the (over) work, the understaffing, the intimidation from groups of inmates juxtaposed with the lack of support from the top levels to effectively address it, etc. $100k sounds like ridiculous money for that kind of job but when you apply that to the California adjusted cost of living, it hardly seems that glamorous for one of the shittiest, most depressing jobs around.

Sinergy -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 1:33:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 Just read in today's LA Times that the California prison guard's union, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association, is likely to reject a new contract that would have given them an 18% pay raise because they also want to have the right to file grievances over minor changes in prison operations. Some examples of situations in which the union objected included a changes in the standard for transporting prisoners, the purchase of a cardio-pulmonary resuscitation device, and a requirement that guards perform more frequent checks on inmates in solitary confinement to prevent suicides. I'm normally pro-union, but I did a bit of checking on this--the average salary for a California prison guard is $70,000/yr, and very often that figure rises to $100,000 year with overtime. So essentially, these guards rejected a pay increase of $14,000+ /yr because they think they deserve the right to veto every little decision made. $84,000-$118,000 a year for a job a monkey could do! Meanwhile, the average salary for a Master Sergeant (specialist) in the US Army with 20 years of service is $50,000 /yr. So is a California prison twice as dangerous as a street in Iraq? Sounds rather ridiculous to me. Have you read the contract? From my experience in unions, the money is usually not the top item on the bargaining table list. The union I belong to has turned down contracts with exorbitant rate increases because the shipping companies wanted us to pay a nominal co-pay for medical. The Union's stance is "dont try to put our medical on the negotiating table." The union I belong to has also turned down contracts with rate increases because the shipping companies want to do things which we feel are unsafe. An example of this is an attempt to raise the speed limit on the docks. Right now according to the safety document is 10mph. Shipping companies want to raise it to 25mph. We lose enough people in the harbor run over by outside truckers speeding already. The harbor is a dangerous enough gig already, we dont see much point in increasing the hazards to the people who work there. It is a downward spiral, give up something and it is extremely difficult to ever get it back. Sinergy

popeye1250 -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 1:34:59 PM)
It was bad enough arresting those kinds of people (USCG) . I wouldn't want to be locked up with them for 8 hours a day. Getting human waste thrown at you, dealing with mental cases, being assaulted, no, not one of the more desireable jobs. And yes, we need to pay our military people a lot more money!

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 1:40:39 PM)
Holy shit a 100K to be a prison guard. LOL, sorry my sister is a prison guard, and while it may not be the most glamourous job in the world she swears it's the easiest job she ever had. I mean I'm not trying to knock prison guards, but to be a prison guard in IL, you only have to go through a few weeks "training". Either way, if they are getting paid that much don't be to suprised when California turns to privatization. Some unions are just nuts, and a 100K for a prison guard is nuts. Sorry, it just is...

Level -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 1:53:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 $84,000-$118,000 a year for a job a monkey could do! No, a monkey couldn't do their job; correction officers experience some of the highest stress levels of any job, in fact.

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 1:55:15 PM)
quote: So is a California prison twice as dangerous as a street in Iraq? Sounds rather ridiculous to me. Let me tell you a little story about how dangerous it can be in a California prison. I was a phlebotomist (a person that draws blood) in a prison. Think about that for a moment. This is as up close work as you can get with a sharp object. Obviously they can't be handcuffed at this point because of the need for an anticubital (inner elbow) or hand draw being performed. So one wrist is cuffed, the other is strapped down lightly to prevent movement. One day one of my patients decided that he wasn't going to deal with prison very well. (the majority of work was intake blood testing for various diseases) and decided to use my butterfly needle and myself as a brilliant way to avoid having to be locked up. Regardless of having another guard in the room with me, being that close means it doesn't take much to get into a very scary and dangerous situation. I won't get into the gory details but suffice to say after being in a hostage situation for several hours and quite a few stitches later I can attest that truly no amount of money is worth the danger these CO's go through on any given day at any given time. If it wasn't for the CO with me at the time the outcome could have been far far worse. On another point, the rejection of the contract may not have been wholly based on pay at all. There may be numerous fine print items that are unacceptable in the mediation that no amount of money in raise will make acceptable. What might be a little decision to someone outside of the prison atmosphere may be a huge decision when you're the person inside it.

selfbnd411 -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 2:16:50 PM)
I'm sure it's quite dangerous to work in a prison, but the question is whether it's $100k/yr dangerous. Or if you think about it in terms of my comparison with 20 year US Army veteran at the rank of Master Sergeant, is it 100% more dangerous than being in a military at war? But yes, the rejection is not due to the pay issue; it's due to the issue of shop democracy, which is something I generally support. It's a lot easier to support shop democracy when it's garment workers making $14,000/yr asking for living wage than it is to support prison guards making $100k+ a year asking for the right to protest against every tiny change in prison operations. Shoot, the union even filed a grievance because they were given paid time to attend a conference! (They wanted paid time off to attend union meetings as well). Back to the question of safety, here's some intersting statistics: http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/16/pf/2005_most_dangerous_jobs/index.htm "Assaults and other violent acts contributed to danger in the workplace: 14 percent of all fatalities were due to these. Fifty policemen and sheriff's patrol officers were murdered on the job, and another 81 died in traffic accidents and other incidents. The tragic toll added up to 18.2 fatalities per 100,000 workers. The most dangerous industry in terms of total killed was construction, where 1,186 workers died. The rate of 11.0 per 100,000, however, trailed the agricultural segment (32.5 per 100,000), which included fishing and logging; mining (25.6 per 100,000); and transportation and warehousing (17.6 per 100,000), where many drivers died in traffic accidents." I don't know if that statistic for officers includes prison guards, but something tells me that the average pay for construction workers, coal miners, fishermen, and truck drivers isn't $100k/yr.

Sinergy -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 2:28:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 The most dangerous industry in terms of total killed was construction, where 1,186 workers died. The rate of 11.0 per 100,000, however, trailed the agricultural segment (32.5 per 100,000), which included fishing and logging; mining (25.6 per 100,000); and transportation and warehousing (17.6 per 100,000), where many drivers died in traffic accidents." Transportation and warehousing includes longshoreman... It is not just fatalities, although the apocryphal saying on the docks is that nobody is hurt on the docks, they are killed. A huge percentage of longshoremen get seriously injured doing the job, largely because it is so physical and dangerous down there. Sinergy

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 2:28:33 PM)
quote: I'm sure it's quite dangerous to work in a prison, but the question is whether it's $100k/yr dangerous. Or if you think about it in terms of my comparison with 20 year US Army veteran at the rank of Master Sergeant, is it 100% more dangerous than being in a military at war? I would say as dangerous. Either situation has it's inherent mortal danger on a daily basis does it not? However there are also things that someone in the military receives as added bonuses that a CO does not. Free medical care, housing, meal allowances etc that can be added to their annual salary that aren't being considered. Annual income is not made up only from pay, there are also the monetary value of perqs to be considered as well. I'm not attempting to get into a disagreement. I was simply giving you a personal experience to understand the daily possibly danger that is present in a prison environment. Do I think our service men and women are underpaid? Of course I do. Frankly I don't think 100K a year is reasonable enough pay for being in the military at war time. Do I feel that what the union negotiations are trying to achieve are ridiculous/unreasonable? No I don't.

Sinergy -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 2:35:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck Do I feel that what the union negotiations are trying to achieve are ridiculous/unreasonable? No I don't. The shipping companies during the 2002 lockout did a media blitz trying to convince people in the US that longshoremen are overpaid. They tried to convince everybody using talking heads on Faux News and the like that how much we get paid was a direct threat to the US economy. What they did not bother to share (but they had to as a publicly traded company, so word did get out) was the fact that the entire combined payroll for everybody who works in some connection to the harbor worked out to be an amount of money that was less than (pauses for emphasis) Three (3) percent of their total profit for the year. Not Three percent of their cost. Three percent of their profit. Corporations pay people to figure out the way to spin things so that the uninformed can rush to judgement. Before complaining about 100K being overpaid for a prison guard, I would ask 2 questions. 1) How much are the bosses and everybody else who works in the prison system paid? How does this compare to what guards are paid? 2) What percentage of the cost to run a prison is used to pay the guards? I imagine the answer to number two is a very low percentage. Sinergy

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 2:44:28 PM)
quote: Before complaining about 100K being overpaid for a prison guard, I would ask 2 questions. Sinergy, with all due respect I wasn't complaining in the least about it being overpaid. I was speaking of it being not close to compensation when it comes to the inherent danger faced on a daily basis. I prehaps worded my last comment wrongly. I was not trying to give the idea I support the union side of the equation. I meant that the workers had every right to negotiate things that are vital to their own safety. I apoogize if that was misconstrued as my being on the side of the union. quote: On another point, the rejection of the contract may not have been wholly based on pay at all. There may be numerous fine print items that are unacceptable in the mediation that no amount of money in raise will make acceptable. What might be a little decision to someone outside of the prison atmosphere may be a huge decision when you're the person inside it. I'm quoting myself here.

Sinergy -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 3:10:49 PM)
Apologies, SDFemDom4cuck. I meant that as a general reply to the thread, not to what you posted in particular. I agree entirely with what you posted. Sorry for the confusion. Sinergy

popeye1250 -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 3:18:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 I'm sure it's quite dangerous to work in a prison, but the question is whether it's $100k/yr dangerous. Or if you think about it in terms of my comparison with 20 year US Army veteran at the rank of Master Sergeant, is it 100% more dangerous than being in a military at war? But yes, the rejection is not due to the pay issue; it's due to the issue of shop democracy, which is something I generally support. It's a lot easier to support shop democracy when it's garment workers making $14,000/yr asking for living wage than it is to support prison guards making $100k+ a year asking for the right to protest against every tiny change in prison operations. Shoot, the union even filed a grievance because they were given paid time to attend a conference! (They wanted paid time off to attend union meetings as well). Back to the question of safety, here's some intersting statistics: http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/16/pf/2005_most_dangerous_jobs/index.htm "Assaults and other violent acts contributed to danger in the workplace: 14 percent of all fatalities were due to these. Fifty policemen and sheriff's patrol officers were murdered on the job, and another 81 died in traffic accidents and other incidents. The tragic toll added up to 18.2 fatalities per 100,000 workers. The most dangerous industry in terms of total killed was construction, where 1,186 workers died. The rate of 11.0 per 100,000, however, trailed the agricultural segment (32.5 per 100,000), which included fishing and logging; mining (25.6 per 100,000); and transportation and warehousing (17.6 per 100,000), where many drivers died in traffic accidents." I don't know if that statistic for officers includes prison guards, but something tells me that the average pay for construction workers, coal miners, fishermen, and truck drivers isn't $100k/yr. Actually most Fishermen make much more than $100k. And they earn every penny of it! Same goes for Coal Miners. Those two jobs are consistantly at the top of the "Most Dangerous" jobs list. Watch that show on A&E or Discovery Channel, "Deadliest Catch." Being on a fishing boat in the Bering Sea or the North Atlantic is no picnic! And many Construction workers and Truck Drivers do very well too but again it's the conditions that they have to put up with.

Alumbrado -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 3:24:46 PM)
$70K a year in Cali is what, about half that elsewhere? (Out of which civilian employees pay for some things the military provides their people). Seems like an apples and oranges comparison. What are they having to pay to keep teachers in the most expensive parts of that state? Last time I checked, overtime was something people earned by saving their employer the need to hire more people to cover those hours. And by and large, in real life, people get paid less for crappier work conditions... does anyone really think that CEO jobs are hundreds of times more dangerous or demanding than those mentioned above?

Real0ne -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 3:27:08 PM)
that is hilarious! "wonders what they get at gitmo a quarter mil"?

TheHeretic -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 5:18:07 PM)
It's not just little changes in policy. It's little changes in policy dictated by bureaucrats who have probably never had a face-to-face encounter with a genuinely bad bit of human refuse, much less been into a cellblock themselves. Nifty little ideas that seem so good on paper, to people who don't know what they are talking about. I call the phenomenon "forgetting about the gravity." Those 'little policy changes" that might save a $1 or $2 can be the difference between life and death in the real world those office pukes have no conception of. The guards are damn right to insist on having recourse. I wouldn't do that job for twice the money they make now.

Sinergy -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 5:25:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic It's not just little changes in policy. It's little changes in policy dictated by bureaucrats who have probably never had a face-to-face encounter with a genuinely bad bit of human refuse, much less been into a cellblock themselves. Nifty little ideas that seem so good on paper, to people who don't know what they are talking about. I call the phenomenon "forgetting about the gravity." Those 'little policy changes" that might save a $1 or $2 can be the difference between life and death in the real world those office pukes have no conception of. The guards are damn right to insist on having recourse. I wouldn't do that job for twice the money they make now. I have been in underemployment hell when AnenecephalyBoy offshored my industry to India. There are any number of jobs I would do if the alternative was starvation and poverty. I have nothing but respect for the person willing to do those jobs. Sinergy

Sinergy -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 5:27:58 PM)
As a direct response to your post, TheHeretic, when I was managing a computer facility and had to put in a PO request for, say, a new computer, the signatures I had to get were nested 8-10 deep. With 20+ years in that industry, I quickly came to the conclusion that you could put a bullet between the eyes of 6 of the people making those signatures and it would not impeded the work getting done one iota. Probably explains why I refused to go into muddle management. They force me to do that, somebody would find me hanging by my power tie from the coat rack on my door. Sinergy

TheHeretic -> RE: Get rich fast--become a prison guard! (4/22/2007 6:01:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic It's not just little changes in policy. It's little changes in policy dictated by bureaucrats who have probably never had a face-to-face encounter with a genuinely bad bit of human refuse, much less been into a cellblock themselves. Nifty little ideas that seem so good on paper, to people who don't know what they are talking about. I call the phenomenon "forgetting about the gravity." Those 'little policy changes" that might save a $1 or $2 can be the difference between life and death in the real world those office pukes have no conception of. The guards are damn right to insist on having recourse. I wouldn't do that job for twice the money they make now. I have been in underemployment hell when AnenecephalyBoy offshored my industry to India. There are any number of jobs I would do if the alternative was starvation and poverty. I have nothing but respect for the person willing to do those jobs. Sinergy I'm bearing in mind from our conversation on another thread that you have certain financial obligations I do not. In need, I've taken worse gigs. Now that I'm able to give a higher priority to my own quality of life, I'm more selective in my choices. My first job in CA didn't pay squat, but I enjoyed it immensely. I would sometimes have a beer in the evening with my next door neighbor, a concrete contractor. He would bitch about the difficulties of finding skilled help. The basic pour is monkey-work, but finishing and the elaborate custom surfaces for luxury homes require experience and even a bit of talent. In the 3 years I lived next to him, I never mentioned that I possess those skills. Why? Because I hate the work. I'm too tall for stoop labor and what's the good of having the money to run off to the lake for the weekend if your lower back hurts too much to enjoy it? What's the good of making $100k if you spend your days hoping you don't get shanked and/or infected with HIV? They have my gratitude and good wishes, but I wouldn't do their job.

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