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RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 11:26:27 AM

starshineowned

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

But I get the impression that a lot of people's perception of D/s or M/s is simply to obey and not question. I'm curious if that's the case when it comes to the fundemental relationship issues like communication, affection, attention, and respect.

I would be more curious as to why this perception of D/s or M/s isn't as valid or correct as any other perception of D/s or M/s out there? Who determined what set ways or what it was all about that the mass's were to follow?

This ranks right up there with ever other view and scorn of only being "one true way" or "my way is the right and only way" no?

Always very interesting to see that those that aren't of the mass's always seem to be the one's they are told are living in a fantasy world when in truth..I see them as the only one's with balls enough to live true and not be sheep.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 41

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 1:42:46 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

I agree with Padriag and many others on here...yes, D/s is a two way street; after all, it is a power exchange. A dominant has the responsibility to listen to a submissive about their wants and needs and desires and their past experiences, including having learned those ways that work best for her in getting her to submit and follow. However...there is that fine line between listening/hearing her and making the decision to incorporate some or even all of what she has said into his way of taking her where he wants her to go....AND doing things exactly her way or face the prospect of having her balk or declare something that was not out of bounds now out of bounds. As stated by Padriag...and correct me if I am wrong her, Padriag...topping from the bottom.

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 42

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 1:52:24 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

As stated by Padriag...and correct me if I am wrong her, Padriag...topping from the bottom.

Well your wrong...

... just kidding.

Topping from the bottom would be one word for it (okay, four words). Submissives / slaves should be communicating, sharing, and providing feedback. Making requests, asking, begging, etc. all okay. Now when they start making demands, deciding what is and isn't acceptable... then you gotta ask who's on which end of the leash!

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 43

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 3:26:48 PM

subminster

Posts: 4
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

To me, it is an issue of recognizing the limitations of a D/s relationship. While the Dom/me may be very good at recognizing when his/her sub needs something, no one is a mindreader, and it seems to be an unrealistic expectation of the sub/slave to expect mind-reading.

Perhaps at some point within a relationship, the sub/slave never feels like their needs aren't being met, but if both parties are interested in maintaining the beautiful closeness that is possible within a D/s or M/s relationship, the sub/slave MUST speak up whenever their needs are not being met, or be prepared for a wedge to appear. Power exchange does not render communication unnecessary. In fact, I do not believe that a Dom/me will be able to truly dominate his/her sub/slave without communication about needs/wants, and the understanding that needs/wants change over time.

As an example, let's say sub X does not particularly enjoy receiving oral sex, and sub X's Dom/me routinely gives oral sex as a reward. Then, the Dom/me is unsuccessful in encouraging whatever behaviour he/she wishes to encourage, and sub X is not receiving the satisfaction necessary to be a happy sub. As the cliche goes, happy slaves make happy Masters. If the slave isn't happy, they owe it to themselves and their Master to speak up.

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 44

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 4:06:45 PM

JonnyRook

Posts: 1
Joined: 6/10/2005
Status: offline

to question is to learn,thats the way i see it,to question means your interested,in any subject you will be asking questions,If theres something wrong in my relationship question it,let me know,after all im ugly enough and old enough to deal with it, lol,i think people worry far to much about upsetting each other rather than just getting on and enjoying there relationship."if you cant let the person be themselves..,then how are you to know the true person"?

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 45

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 4:22:40 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

As stated by Padriag...and correct me if I am wrong her, Padriag...topping from the bottom.

Well your wrong...

... just kidding.

Topping from the bottom would be one word for it (okay, four words). Submissives / slaves should be communicating, sharing, and providing feedback. Making requests, asking, begging, etc. all okay. Now when they start making demands, deciding what is and isn't acceptable... then you gotta ask who's on which end of the leash!

That's all well and good in an established, stable D/s relationship......, but when things are anything but stable, and filled with unanswered confusions and frustrations for the sub/slave, then what?

Is it really topping from the bottom to take a firmer stand when a dominant refuses to heed the warnings from the sub/slave that the ship is sinking?

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 46

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 4:29:32 PM

glycerine

Posts: 20
Joined: 9/29/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subminster

To me, it is an issue of recognizing the limitations of a D/s relationship. While the Dom/me may be very good at recognizing when his/her sub needs something, no one is a mindreader, and it seems to be an unrealistic expectation of the sub/slave to expect mind-reading.

Perhaps at some point within a relationship, the sub/slave never feels like their needs aren't being met, but if both parties are interested in maintaining the beautiful closeness that is possible within a D/s or M/s relationship, the sub/slave MUST speak up whenever their needs are not being met, or be prepared for a wedge to appear. Power exchange does not render communication unnecessary. In fact, I do not believe that a Dom/me will be able to truly dominate his/her sub/slave without communication about needs/wants, and the understanding that needs/wants change over time.

i very much agree with this. Although Sir is in charge, my input is requested. i can't expect for Him to know if there is a problem with anything, if i have not spoken up and informed Him of it. Communication i think is the most important thing in a relationship and one of the things that attracts me most to the D/s lifestyle is the openness and amount of the communication that i have been able to enjoy with most of my Dominant partners. i expect that if faced in a situation with a Dominant partner where i was unable to voice a respectful input or discuss important issues (whether only important to me or otherwise), i would probably not be able to continue the relationship.

_____________________________

Good Sense is always easier to Have than to Use.

it might just be
clear, simple and plain
That's just fine
that's just one of my names
--------------------------------Bush

(in reply to subminster)

Post #: 47

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 4:39:48 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

No one outside of our relationship would ever guess that my husband has a "submissive" bone in his body. We operate as equals for the most part, but there's no doubt that I get the final decision on all matters as they relate to sex, social activities, money and our lifestyle. A few people think it's interesting that he does not work (and we don't have kids), but recognize pretty quickly that he's not pussywhipped or a putz who stays home all day wearing an apron.

Our dynamic works because there's no power struggle. He doesn't want to be in charge, but at the same time he isn't afraid to stand up to me or voice his opinion. Meanwhile, I value his input (especially with regards to money, which I let him manage) but we both know that I want what I want and when I have my mind set, I will get my way.

I also recognize that I can be terribly compulsive and I need his balance to keep me from making rash decisions, especially with regards to money. I need a man, though, that can be reasonable with me and not succumb to my irrational desires when I decide I *MUST* Have something which I don't really need. If I was given free reign, we'd be broke. Having this kind of balance is critical and I recognize that; but I still inevitably get what I want.

When it comes to sex, bdsm or the bedroom, it's always my call. That doesn't mean he can't initiate sex or ask for "lovin" - but I can always say no. He, on the other hand, isn't allowed to say no.

I don't abuse the power that I have though, and that's how we can continue to live in mutual trust and respect.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 48

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 5:02:10 PM

Halley

Posts: 51
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline

I feel like my sub has an obligation to tell me what she is feeling. I am not a mind reader. I know that at times she wants the discipline to feel safe and loved. I may not always pick up on this if I am having a stressful week. If she tells me what she needs then we are both happier in the relationship. Me having to guess can end up in frustration on both our sides. Mostly mine.

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 49

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 5:12:57 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

That's all well and good in an established, stable D/s relationship......, but when things are anything but stable, and filled with unanswered confusions and frustrations for the sub/slave, then what?

Let's break this down a bit.
First you set the condition of "when things are anything but stable, and filled with unanswered confusions and frustrations for the sub/slave". If things are already that off track, then the odds are not good things are going to end well anyway. Apparently you overlooked the part where I talked about communication, asking questions and the dom listening. The situation you just described sounds like a dom who is not listening, is not answering questions and communications are apparently very poor. Soooo....

quote:

Is it really topping from the bottom to take a firmer stand when a dominant refuses to heed the warnings from the sub/slave that the ship is sinking?

If things have reached that point and the dom still has his head stuck up his ass... why haven't you walked out the door would be my question? Don't bother making demands, because a) that's not your place, and b) he isn't listening apparently so it would be a waste of breath anyway. Walk out the door and find something better. As I've said elsewhere, the submissive does have a responsibility to care for his or her self. If that means removing themselves from a relationship that is pretty much "sunk", well.... what are you waiting for?

.oO(If it helps, imagine R Lee Ernie shouting "move it! move it! getcher butt outta there!"

)

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 50

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 5:26:14 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
First you set the condition of "when things are anything but stable, and filled with unanswered confusions and frustrations for the sub/slave". If things are already that off track, then the odds are not good things are going to end well anyway. Apparently you overlooked the part where I talked about communication, asking questions and the dom listening. The situation you just described sounds like a dom who is not listening, is not answering questions and communications are apparently very poor. Soooo....

quote:

Is it really topping from the bottom to take a firmer stand when a dominant refuses to heed the warnings from the sub/slave that the ship is sinking?

If things have reached that point and the dom still has his head stuck up his ass... why haven't you walked out the door would be my question? Don't bother making demands, because a) that's not your place, and b) he isn't listening apparently so it would be a waste of breath anyway. Walk out the door and find something better. As I've said elsewhere, the submissive does have a responsibility to care for his or her self. If that means removing themselves from a relationship that is pretty much "sunk", well.... what are you waiting for?

.oO(If it helps, imagine R Lee Ernie shouting "move it! move it! getcher butt outta there!" )

Thank you for responding Padriag and you are right. Sometimes you hold onto a hope, and it takes a reality check from others to get one's head out of the clouds.

Thank you again.

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 51

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 6:04:53 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

You're welcome, I get the feeling I'm missing a few episodes here, but if something I said helped I'm glad for that. And if it helps any, sometimes we all hang on too long. When it comes to matters of the heart, its easy to talk about rational choices, doing them is something else.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 52

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 11:39:32 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

quote:

But I get the impression that a lot of people's perception of D/s or M/s is simply to obey and not question. I'm curious if that's the case when it comes to the fundemental relationship issues like communication, affection, attention, and respect.

I would be more curious as to why this perception of D/s or M/s isn't as valid or correct as any other perception of D/s or M/s out there? Who determined what set ways or what it was all about that the mass's were to follow?

This ranks right up there with ever other view and scorn of only being "one true way" or "my way is the right and only way" no?

Always very interesting to see that those that aren't of the mass's always seem to be the one's they are told are living in a fantasy world when in truth..I see them as the only one's with balls enough to live true and not be sheep.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

I wasn't trying to say that, not in the least. What I was trying to say is that I have seen people that I respect as M/s role models say that the way their relationships work is that the s-type is just as obligated to point out relationship oriented flaws of the d-type as vice versa because they do believe the relationship to be between 2 humans with "issues" of their own that can both be worked towards improvement. I have no problem with people who want to practice their relationship in a different way but personally I value knowing that if I'm with someone, he would not hesitate to point out if he thinks I'm being selfish, unreasonable, inattentive, or whatever the case may be just the same as I would make it clear to him. Yes, there is always an appropriate time, place, and manner for such things to be said, but I have seen way too many arrogant dominants who can do no wrong in the eyes of their subs. I don't see how a relationship can really work between someone who for all practical purposes is infallible and someone who must support the illusion of that infalibility by not ever making a solid statement to the contrary. Again, that's just me. If it works differently for others, more power to them, and that's indeed why I posed the question. I was curious to know the variety of ways that people's relationships deal with this issue.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 53

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 11:46:23 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

That's all well and good in an established, stable D/s relationship......, but when things are anything but stable, and filled with unanswered confusions and frustrations for the sub/slave, then what? Is it really topping from the bottom to take a firmer stand when a dominant refuses to heed the warnings from the sub/slave that the ship is sinking?

IMO, not at all, and in fact you owe it to yourself and the relationship to do just that. If your subtle hints didn't work, then you should call him up or write a letter saying something along the lines of, "This is not what I signed up for and if you are going to continue to ignore my needs and neglect the responsibilities you agreed to by being my dom, then we have a serious problem." There is a BIG difference, IMO with a sub topping from the bottom or trying to only get what he/she wants in regards to play vs. establishing the basis of a relationship that is going to run smoothly for you.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 54

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/8/2007 6:24:05 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I have a firm belief on this subject, as it pertains to a simple question. If a boy is not happy serving Me, why would he continue? Yes, I'm sure there are a lot of standard answers to that question, so it comes along with a follow up. Why, in particular, does one want to serve Me?

I have no mind reading abilities, magic decoder ring, rulebook, or any other type of material to know if My boy is happy in his service to Me or not, unless he tells Me. With some, I have to question more than others. After a while, My boys will just ask for permission to speak freely at the time something is bothering them. I've found that knowing their thoughts and their ability to express them has always brought a better relationship.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 55

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/8/2007 11:01:07 PM

BabyNyla

Posts: 578
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline

My Daddy often will end a conversation with me by allowing to ask any questions I want ... and he always asks me what I am thinking about. I am not very good about being open so he also has me keep a livejournal where I often write about things that upset me and worry me.

_____________________________

My Journal

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 56

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/9/2007 12:19:27 AM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

Basically, what I am curious about here is how people feel about this idea (which has been presented to me by some of my most highly regarded D/s and M/s role models) that the slave has the right (responsibility?) to inform the master when he or she is behaving in a way that is unacceptable.

I would say the word is "Responsibility" not a "Right" with regards to my relationships. I suspose some Dominants don't really care how a submissive is behaving they are not around. However, My girls are expect to maintain to my standards all the time, regardless if I am present or not. For me, it is a question of Integrity that my girls will come forward with situations that they preceived themselves as behaving inappropriately when I am not there.

I think you misunderstood my wording here. Sorry for the confusion. I meant it to be understood as a question of whether or not in each person's own dynamic the sub was allowed or expected to voice that fundamental relationship "things" for lack of a better word, were wrong, even if that wrongness fell on the side of the dom. It was not a matter of how the sub acts when the dom is away.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 57

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/9/2007 5:21:35 AM

justinedoll

Posts: 50
Joined: 8/10/2006
From: uk, poland, germany
Status: offline

I used to meet Mistresses firstly on vanila ground. neutral meeting of two people who little know each other (i start new friendship by internet), Then eating or having a drink is time to tell what who likes and needs. People need to talk. To not hurt, not be hurted, to not be leaved and to not break something between them with some stupid mistakes. Of course the greatest dream for each sub and maso is to Find Mistress or Master who knows everything about us and do everything perfect. Doms the way expected by sub (i dont belive is there any sub who dont like be dominated , so subs do it for pleasure). As subs feel good as good slave or pet, the same feel the Doms. We all look for some kind of relations or fun, and i belive talking is the best way to make them real. And i was surprised Doms are open for such talkings and expecting them. If someone like to train a pet or use love doll should know how to do it and how it works. In my opinion BDSM people are very sensitive with rich personalities little more complicated then others.
Maby my experience will help to someone.

1) Exactly must be known whe we talk bdsm and when out of it, it can be difficult, but allows to know each otcher from bouth sides. As a person and as a slave. Doms a met liked to take controll and if they knwe more about slave had more fun

2) When relation is more close is nice to do confession or playing therapy.

3) Starting from soft things more free realtionship and going deeper and deeper.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 58

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/9/2007 7:19:00 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

As stated by Padriag...and correct me if I am wrong her, Padriag...topping from the bottom.

Well your wrong...

... just kidding.

Topping from the bottom would be one word for it (okay, four words). Submissives / slaves should be communicating, sharing, and providing feedback. Making requests, asking, begging, etc. all okay. Now when they start making demands, deciding what is and isn't acceptable... then you gotta ask who's on which end of the leash!

That's all well and good in an established, stable D/s relationship......, but when things are anything but stable, and filled with unanswered confusions and frustrations for the sub/slave, then what? Is it really topping from the bottom to take a firmer stand when a dominant refuses to heed the warnings from the sub/slave that the ship is sinking?

I don't have much to add. I am talking about one area in either a budding or built D/s relationship. Even in a budding relationship, while there may be room for more leeway than there is later down the road, there still has to be a line drawn somewhere. From what I have read of most submissives' statements on here, they want that line drawn...and they want it drawn in such a way that they can see their "colors" blended into it but they don't really want to see each line, for each situation, drawn in all their colors because then they know that they are the ones controlling and wielding the paint brush, not the dominant.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 59

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