Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (Full Version)

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DominaSmartass -> Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 9:36:55 PM)

Basically, what I am curious about here is how people feel about this idea (which has been presented to me by some of my most highly regarded D/s and M/s role models) that the slave has the right (responsibility?) to inform the master when he or she is behaving in a way that is unacceptable. Unacceptable could mean anything from "I feel neglected because you aren't giving me enough attention" to "we never play anymore and I feel like something's missing" to "the way you talk to me feels disrespectful" or any variety of constructive criticism within the relationship. I can imagine a lot of people not liking this idea because it doesn't keep with the fantasy of an ever-obedient slave who doesn't speak up no matter what happens. I do personally agree with people who feel this way and I would hope that in any future D/s relationships I may have that my partner feels secure enough to speak up and tell me if something isn't working for him so that we can talk it out and reach a solution. Certainly I would have no trouble bringing those things up to him. But I get the impression that a lot of people's perception of D/s or M/s is simply to obey and not question. I'm curious if that's the case when it comes to the fundemental relationship issues like communication, affection, attention, and respect. Just curious to hear opinions here. Thanks.



spanklette -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 9:45:13 PM)

We, generally, sit down for a heart to heart every once in a while just to get a reality check on where the other person is at and where we are together. If I was having a problem...you're damn skippy I would speak up. But, I've learned how to approach Him with issues and to get the desired result. So, yes it's a two way street. All that aside, if I'm unhappy with something, it's usually pretty obvious. I don't have much of a poker face. So, He'll ask me, I'll tell Him, and then we work it out.
 
I took me a while to figure out that it was much easier to work things out with Him than to try and adjust to something that just didn't suit me.



hisannabelle -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 9:46:45 PM)

greetings domina,

He encourages me to question. once, during probably the only conversation we've ever had that He actually outright asserted that i am His property (He'd never quite said those words before, although that's been the nature of our relationship almost since we got together), He actually said it's my inalienable right to question. i'm not quite sure i feel that i should have that right, personally, and i cannot imagine myself seriously questioning Him, but nevertheless, it is there.

the way this (2-way street of communication) plays out in our relationship is that i am encouraged to speak up about what i'm thinking/feeling/wanting/needing. this is information for Him, which He can choose to act on or not act on, accordingly. it doesn't mean i'll always be able to have whatever it is i'm not getting, or more of what it is i like...it doesn't mean i get my way. but it does mean that He has that information so that He knows my needs/wants and what He can do to meet those or help me meet them if He chooses.

respectfully,
annabelle.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 9:48:11 PM)

That was one of the first rules put on me.  He wants to know what and how I am feeling and thinking as it pertains to us/him at all times.  Be it good, bad, funny, whatever, he needs to know it.  I used to be afraid to say anything unflattering.  He was consistent in his message:  "I may not like what you tell me, but I have to know it."  How else can he fix and/or foresee a problem? 

Think of it this way - If I went around telling him only what I thought he wanted to hear, he would be directing me based on false information.  This could be potentially dangerous.  We don't live in fantasy here - it is very much our reality.  So I absolutely tell him the negative along with the positive.  Mind you, there is a way of communicating that works better than others.  I can say, "Master I don't feel heard" or I can say "Will you listen to me, dammit??"  Which do you think will get the better response?!  [;)]

But yes, I am required to tell him everything.  It is a critical rule.  The last thing he wants is for me to bottle something up and then out of the blue, explode the whole relationship over it.  Now, just because I express something I don't like doesn't mean he is going to change it.  But if he feels it makes sense to adjust, he will.  Or in some cases he'll explore my thoughts futher.  Or even in some cases he'll say I'm out of line - fix it.    It depends on what I'm telling him, but I always must tell him.  To not express such things would be cheating us both.



smilingjaguar -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 9:51:44 PM)

Our relationship is a two-way street in the sense that I do bring up things that trouble me in the relationship.  It's my responsibility.  As long as I can present it calmly, it works out.  Now if I told him we weren't playing enough so get his ass in the bedroom and make it happen, he'd probably get pissed enough to tie me down and tickle me for hours (I'm a masochist...tickling really, really bothers me).

When it comes to intimate acts, if it isn't on the limit list I don't get to say no.  It's the way we both like it.  He does have common sense enough to deal with health issues and such, so it's never been an issue.



Griswold -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 9:54:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

Basically, what I am curious about here is how people feel about this idea (which has been presented to me by some of my most highly regarded D/s and M/s role models) that the slave has the right (responsibility?) to inform the master when he or she is behaving in a way that is unacceptable. Unacceptable could mean anything from "I feel neglected because you aren't giving me enough attention" to "we never play anymore and I feel like something's missing" to "the way you talk to me feels disrespectful" or any variety of constructive criticism within the relationship. I can imagine a lot of people not liking this idea because it doesn't keep with the fantasy of an ever-obedient slave who doesn't speak up no matter what happens. I do personally agree with people who feel this way and I would hope that in any future D/s relationships I may have that my partner feels secure enough to speak up and tell me if something isn't working for him so that we can talk it out and reach a solution. Certainly I would have no trouble bringing those things up to him. But I get the impression that a lot of people's perception of D/s or M/s is simply to obey and not question. I'm curious if that's the case when it comes to the fundemental relationship issues like communication, affection, attention, and respect. Just curious to hear opinions here. Thanks.


Yada yada.

Pfffffft.



NakedGirlScout -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 9:55:15 PM)

I think the only difference between people who do speak up and those who don't is that the latter carry their resentment (or anger, or sadness, or whatever negative feeling is stirred up) silently. Not talking about it never made it go away. I guess you could have a person who prefers to be with somebody who says nothing is wrong, even if it is, but that would seem like a fairly shallow and emotionally barren landscape to me. I prefer passion which is impossible with repressing one person's feelings over the other's.



FelinePersuasion -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 10:02:11 PM)

Yes. I have the right to and I am fully expected to. My Daddy don't like me keeping when things are not right from him, because it eats me up and makes me sad. I wouldn't ever be with a dominant who didn't believe I had the right to speak up about anything under the sun.

Of course there are better ways of saying it than others, Daddy you're an asshole, would be hurtful and rude. However Daddy you hurt my feelings and I need some tlc, Perfect.

Edited to add, of course we're not your typical D.s We're very free and relaxed in our relationship.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

Basically, what I am curious about here is how people feel about this idea (which has been presented to me by some of my most highly regarded D/s and M/s role models) that the slave has the right (responsibility?) to inform the master when he or she is behaving in a way that is unacceptable. Unacceptable could mean anything from "I feel neglected because you aren't giving me enough attention" to "we never play anymore and I feel like something's missing" to "the way you talk to me feels disrespectful" or any variety of constructive criticism within the relationship. I can imagine a lot of people not liking this idea because it doesn't keep with the fantasy of an ever-obedient slave who doesn't speak up no matter what happens. I do personally agree with people who feel this way and I would hope that in any future D/s relationships I may have that my partner feels secure enough to speak up and tell me if something isn't working for him so that we can talk it out and reach a solution. Certainly I would have no trouble bringing those things up to him. But I get the impression that a lot of people's perception of D/s or M/s is simply to obey and not question. I'm curious if that's the case when it comes to the fundemental relationship issues like communication, affection, attention, and respect. Just curious to hear opinions here. Thanks.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 10:09:44 PM)

While it might at times appear that I am psychic, I'm not.  So yes, if a submissive cannot take care of herself, I want no part of them.



outlier -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 10:29:18 PM)

Domina Smartass,

This is an excerpt from my profile:

"I am willing to accept the responsibility for making the intimate decisions in our relationship; but intimacy requires two,  the situation demands open, honest, respectful feedback.  If your idea of a dominant is the storybook always perfect mind reader than I am not for you.  If you close up or close off  your partner when unhappy, for whatever reason,  than growing what I seek would not be possible with you. 

I will consider all feedback along with what I observe and then do, and expect her to do, as I see fit."

I have to admit to people that I broke the crystal ball that I used for mind reading
that I got as part of my graduation from the Super Secret Old European Dominant School.  I would have replaced it but they want a second full tution, and the Super Secret Old European Dominant School is expensive, so I require feedback.

Outlier





LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 10:43:10 PM)

Even if you want just a labor worker, any decent person in authority realizes that hearing things straight up from the ones you have authority over is likely the best feedback you will get, or at the very least, learn what your laborers are perceiving. 

Having said that, there are plenty of indecent people given authority over others.



longtimemuse -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 11:04:21 PM)

LOL....does a decoder ring come with that most prestigeous education too? I believe that one might be necessary if the dominant/Master in a relationship is expected to decipher every little nuance of meaning from the body language of a  completly silent submissive partner.

The fantasy idea is great...but can only be maintained for short periods in real life. Masters are people too...and it is a huge and really an almost impossible responsibility to be the only sentient being in the relationship. I think, If I were of the bend to be Dominant, that I would bore rather quickly...with  a submissive that had no ideas of there own...a mute and blank landscape would not catch my eye.

Communication is as vital as trust in any relationship and a M/s D/s relationship is no different in my opinion when it comes to that. My Master wants to know where my head is at, he needs to know if we are both on the same page of understanding each other and our dynamic. It is not just my right as a thinking human being to express my feelings, it is my responsibility as a partner in the relationship. Add to the mix that we are also married and have commited ourselves to each other on multiple levels and the communication aspect becomes even more important.

Expressing my opinion or asking for wants and needs can be done in a way that is appropriate to our power exchange dynamic. We are a 24/7 M/s couple and at no time do I ever forget that he is my Master and ultimately has the final say. This does not mean that he does not take my desires seriously, to the contrary, he wants me to be happy with him because it brings him his own joy. I tend to rehearse in my head what and how I want to say something and then bring my question, request or concern to him with a respectful tone and demenor. Its really not that difficult to do if one practices the use of simplest of common curtesy in there manner and speach. He always listens to me and then taking what I say into account he makes his decision.

It is these simple things , these small interactions that propagate my respect for him and make it easier to take an attitude of overall acceptance toward any decisions he does make...even when it may not be exactly what I asked for .




longtimemuse -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 11:07:30 PM)

Hey...by the way... cool pic SimplyMichael......who did it for you....[;)]



SimplyMichael -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/6/2007 11:20:59 PM)

An innocent little girl who is no more.  She is the only one who has ever taken a picture of me that I liked, she captured something I think.  Someone has turned her into a rather glorious woman and a rather proud possession.



yenlui -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/7/2007 3:12:18 AM)

What use is a sad submissive to Sir? "None", He says, and I thank Him for that.



Rayne58 -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/7/2007 5:11:11 AM)

Master has told me He wants to know if anything is bothering or upsetting me. I hesitate to tell Him sometimes because a) I either can't find the right words or b) He has enough worries of His own I don't want to add to them (which makes me a disobedient sub I know[&o])

During my first marriage I got so used to hiding my feelings that it has become a habit. I know I can tell Master anything and He will not react like my ex, but it is taking that first step that I find so very difficult [:(]



Padriag -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/7/2007 5:25:20 AM)

Couple of thoughts here.

First, communication should be two ways in my opinion.  The submissive or slave needs to be able to express their feelings and thoughts.  A good dominant listens and makes note of what is said.  Read almost any book on effective leadership and you'll hear the same advice.

However, that a slave should make the determination that their owner's behavior is unacceptable is a bit different.  There are few cases where I would agree that this is a good idea.  I would agree, for example, if the owner did something that violated the slave's core values.  For example, if a slave is a Christian and the owner attempt to force them to participate in Satanic rites... that would be a good (if unlikely) example of violating core values and thus unacceptable.  In such cases the slave probably only has one recourse, return the collar and leave.  But if the slave is regularly deciding the dominant's behavior is unacceptable, I think you've set a course for creating a demanding submissive who ends up "wearing the pants."

I also find that many submissives, especially those that identify or are owned as slaves, have trouble expressing their feelings even when allowed and encouraged to do so.  There is a definite tendancy among submissives to accept various behaviors and not object, a tendancy to internalize their feelings rather than expressing them.  What I have found to work well as a method for coping with this is to set asside specific times for the slave to talk open, during which I ask prompting questions and otherwise encourage expression.  A favorite personal method is to spend 30 min or so in the morning, while cuddling, and encouraging a slave to talk openly.   Establishing such as a routine seems to help submissives overcome whatever mental barriers they may otherwise have in expressing feelings they might otherwise repress.



marieToo -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/7/2007 5:48:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

Basically, what I am curious about here is how people feel about this idea (which has been presented to me by some of my most highly regarded D/s and M/s role models) that the slave has the right (responsibility?) to inform the master when he or she is behaving in a way that is unacceptable. Unacceptable could mean anything from "I feel neglected because you aren't giving me enough attention" to "we never play anymore and I feel like something's missing" to "the way you talk to me feels disrespectful" or any variety of constructive criticism within the relationship. I can imagine a lot of people not liking this idea because it doesn't keep with the fantasy of an ever-obedient slave who doesn't speak up no matter what happens. I do personally agree with people who feel this way and I would hope that in any future D/s relationships I may have that my partner feels secure enough to speak up and tell me if something isn't working for him so that we can talk it out and reach a solution. Certainly I would have no trouble bringing those things up to him. But I get the impression that a lot of people's perception of D/s or M/s is simply to obey and not question. I'm curious if that's the case when it comes to the fundemental relationship issues like communication, affection, attention, and respect. Just curious to hear opinions here. Thanks.


I think it's all about how something is framed.  I don't think an S type should "inform" their D-type that the D type is doing something "unacceptable". To me, this would be over riding the D's authority.  I think it would be ok for the S-type to "inform" the D that something in particular is having a particular affect on the S type then see where it goes from there.

The second point I wanted to comment on was that "speaking up" as you put it, doesn't qualify the S-type as disobedient.  It simply means he/she is speaking up about their feelings on something.

I also happen to think it's ok to "question" something, but I think it's all in the way it is presented that matters.

As Padriag said about some submissives or slaves not being comfortable being completely open about thoughts or feelings about something, I can concur as I am one of those types who sometimes prefers to just sit on something and deal with it inside of myself rather than question it further or show objection to it.  Even if Im having a hard time with something, I find it almost harder to bring it up for discussion or to 'question' it.  But logically there is nothing wrong with doing so as long as it's done in a respectful tone and the D type appears to be receptive to the discussion. 

And of course, if a D-type suddenly expects you to do something illegal or something against your sense of ethics, (ie rob a bank, hurt another person etc) then it's time to hit the road.  I wouldn't see any need for discussion or questioning.  For me this would be a deal breaker and I would not be able to serve, obey or be commited to someone who did not posess a code of ethics.



shedreamz -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/7/2007 5:54:06 AM)

My answer might get a lot of flak ... but oh well...

The only people out there who are real time, who don't give a hoot about how their slaves feel or think, or how their behavior impacts their slaves, are people who are usually saying this loud an clear, regularly to their slaves (and just about anyone else who will listen).  They are not secretive about this in any way.  They make totally clear in every single action and word that they have total and complete disregard for this other person in their lives. 

In my opinion, they are users and abusers and the people who are with them are victims. 

They are using bdsm as a cover to lure new victims and my advice would be to be extremely diligent when you hear this sort of thing come out of either a slave's mouth or a dominant's mouth.  I say be diligent either way because often these users and abusers USE their victims to lure other victims. 

I have had dozens of wonderful bdsm experiences with incredible dominants, strong demanding Masters, and a few highly intense sadists, those are totally different experiences than a USER/ABUSER.  Those individuals (both male and female, in my case) never ceased being concerned for my welfare, many maintained friendships well past the end of our involvement as M/s and many had strong friendships with me long before our acutal coming together as M/s. 



jauntyone -> RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? (4/7/2007 6:12:12 AM)

Greetings
 
As a slave, it is not my place to inform or tell Master anything. If he wishes to ignore me, beat me, use me, humiliate me, degrade me, pamper me, laugh with me, etc, etc....he is free to do so without having me ( a slave ) tell him that he is doing it right or wrong. When I entered into this relationship, I willingly gave up the rights to 'free speech' within it; and in the time we have been together, I have never regretted it once.
 
I want to add that in regards to the actual question  of the thread "is our relationship a 2 way street', my answer is no. It is a one way street with both Master and I going in the same direction.
 
I wish you well
 
melissa



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