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RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 6:15:59 AM

MasterFireMaam

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Since I believe our relationships are made up of two equal adults who have decided on 1) a structure and 2) a transfer of authority, I agree with this. Yes, I can set up the structure in such a way that the slave is ALWAYS seen and not heard, but all humans I know need an outlet and way of expressing how they feel in reaction to things in a positive manner. I'll get angry at HOW something is said and done before I get angry at WHAT.

Master Fire

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(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 21

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 6:40:38 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

I can imagine a lot of people not liking this idea because it doesn't keep with the fantasy of an ever-obedient slave who doesn't speak up no matter what happens. I do personally agree with people who feel this way and I would hope that in any future D/s relationships I may have that my partner feels secure enough to speak up and tell me if something isn't working for him so that we can talk it out and reach a solution.

The important phrase there is "feels secure enough to speak up". A Master must feel secure enough to speak his mind in a positive, useful way. A submissive should feel the same freedom. If they don't, and a lot of subs/slaves have a hard time with this, it is up to the Master to create an environment where they can feel comfortable and secure enough to do so.

To simply obey and not question is also important to a powerful D/s, M/s relationship. If the sub/slave is constantly feeling the need to question, something is not right with the relationship. As with most things, it is striking the proper balance between the two that makes a fetish relationship successful.

My slave is given freedom to question anything she likes. We will talk it out together. She knows the final decision is mine, and not open to negotiation. She also knows I will give great weight to her concerns in making my decision. We have that level of trust built up between us that she is comfortable with this arrangement.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 22

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 7:18:48 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

This is an issue that has now come to a head in my "relationship". (*this is not an online relationship but we are two hours apart)

Heaven knows I understand that communication isn't every person's strong point. I am not good at face to face communication until I am completely comfortable with someone, and even then I can become a blithering idiot who can't string two words together. And I don't like putting someone on the spot to have to respond immediately to something that may require some contemplation. So I prefer writing my thoughts and feelings, giving myself time to thoughtfully convey them, and to give the other person time to think about their response.

He wanted me to journal to share my thoughts and feelings with him. Early in our relationship, he also wanted me to list my needs, and I did. I am not rude, bratty or demanding in anything I do, so when I journaled about confusions and frustrations, it was always done respectfully.

I understand that dominants all view the needs/wants issue differently and they all work their sub/slaves differently...., but after 5 months filled with confusions and frustrations over a variety of issues and getting little to no active response from him, I wrote a final plea. I was straightforward, yet respectful about my overall frustrations/confusions concerning our relationship.

Now I'm being completely ignored. So much for communication.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 23

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 7:44:29 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
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From: NYS
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If I don't communicate the important things to him, how else will he know them? Last I looked he hadn't achieved mind reading. I'm required to tell him anything that may be impacting the relationship. It's important to him, I'm important to him. Therefore he's set rules in place to insure that we talk freely, so he can do damage control in time and not be left wondering wtf happened after it all blows up.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 24

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 8:18:13 AM

Devilslilsister

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Master hates it when i internalize things. He works with me to stay open

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(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 25

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 8:38:30 AM

lilsquaw

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Joined: 4/1/2007
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This girl has truly appreciated reading all of the postings in this thread. It is obvious that many M/s relationships have multiple ways of dealing with communication issues. This girl is in a 24/7, alpha position and knows that communication is the only thing that makes O/our family work.

In all things that this one does, it is always done with the respect to and permission from my Master. He at no time has ever denied this girl the privledge of being granted the opportunity to request permission to air her need, desires or concerns.

This one know though, that all decisions are ultimately His and girl will comply with His decision. It is the love and trust that W/we share that girl knows all things are for the F/family and her betterment.

As for the slave who has been cut off for being open, a girl must consider if her Master is meeting His end of the situtation by taking care of her needs.

Blessings to A/all,
squaw

(in reply to Devilslilsister)

Post #: 26

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 8:49:40 AM

raevnn

Posts: 152
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As in any relationship, sometimes one or the other person needs more of something than normal and the relationship focus leans in their direction. It is only a problem if one person's issues are the focus of both parties throughout the relationship.

For example: If Daddy and I both take care of Daddy all the time, who is taking care of me? Or, if I take care of myself and Daddy takes care of me, no one is taking care of Daddy.

Sometimes Daddy places my needs center stage and other times, they need to wait until he has the head space to take care of me. I am allowed to say how I feel and what I need... so long as I do not expect to receive it.

(in reply to lilsquaw)

Post #: 27

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 9:04:00 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
I also find that many submissives, especially those that identify or are owned as slaves, have trouble expressing their feelings even when allowed and encouraged to do so.

Which is always the fun and iroinc part because in this way they are trying to retain control and allowing their own personal feelings to decide their behavior- even as they claim to be doing it so as NOT to take control and submit to the other.

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(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 28

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 9:09:22 AM

crouchingtigress

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There is no other way for it to be..

Water seeks its own level...its not just a good idea: its the law...(universal law that is)

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 29

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 9:11:45 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone
Greetings

As a slave, it is not my place to inform or tell Master anything.

Hi Jaunty, perhaps the context is different, but from your earlier post, you do seem to have some specific rules of communication laid down which conflict with this:
Anything that I want, I am allowed to ask Master for. It is then his decision whether or not he will grant it.

I will agree though with what others have said. These are things that should be discussed between you and your owner.

This seems to suggest YOU at least feel there are things which a slave SHOULD tell their master. And I haven't seen you say anything to suggest your master disagrees with that. This would again suggest that you both feel that part of a slave's place is, in fact, to inform the master of certain things at least on certain occasions.

quote:

If he wishes to ignore me, beat me, use me, humiliate me, degrade me, pamper me, laugh with me, etc, etc....he is free to do so without having me ( a slave ) tell him that he is doing it right or wrong. When I entered into this relationship, I willingly gave up the rights to 'free speech' within it; and in the time we have been together, I have never regretted it once.

I want to add that in regards to the actual question of the thread "is our relationship a 2 way street', my answer is no. It is a one way street with both Master and I going in the same direction.

I wish you well

melissa

The rest to me I agree with and is sort of a "Duh, obvious given" in Ms relationships.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 4/7/2007 9:12:05 AM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 30

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 9:18:59 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

Basically, what I am curious about here is how people feel about this idea (which has been presented to me by some of my most highly regarded D/s and M/s role models) that the slave has the right (responsibility?) to inform the master when he or she is behaving in a way that is unacceptable. Unacceptable could mean anything from "I feel neglected because you aren't giving me enough attention" to "we never play anymore and I feel like something's missing" to "the way you talk to me feels disrespectful" or any variety of constructive criticism within the relationship. I can imagine a lot of people not liking this idea because it doesn't keep with the fantasy of an ever-obedient slave who doesn't speak up no matter what happens. I do personally agree with people who feel this way and I would hope that in any future D/s relationships I may have that my partner feels secure enough to speak up and tell me if something isn't working for him so that we can talk it out and reach a solution. Certainly I would have no trouble bringing those things up to him. But I get the impression that a lot of people's perception of D/s or M/s is simply to obey and not question. I'm curious if that's the case when it comes to the fundemental relationship issues like communication, affection, attention, and respect. Just curious to hear opinions here. Thanks.

I would say that I don't have the right to inform my owner that he's behaving in a way that is unacceptable. What I do have the right to do is communicate how I am feeling about something.

To me the difference between those two sentences is that the former is me making decisions and judgements about how he is acting, what he is doing and then informing him that its wrong and he has to change. The latter is me telling him how I feel, which means that its not about him changing or necessarily even about him, and I feel the need to talk to him about it. He can listen, change, not change, suggest things that I can do, etc but the latter sentence isn't about me making decisions about his behavior and telling him what he needs to do.

C~

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(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 31

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 9:23:58 AM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
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Greetings LuckyAlbatross

Perhaps, on the surface, it may seem contradictory; yet it is not so.

I am very young, and still learning every day; in that regard I am extremely fortunate that Master allows me quite a bit of leeway in our relationship. He encourages me, yes, to always let him know if there is something of importance that must be discussed. And yes, it is a PRIVILEGE that I do take advantage of; how else am I to grow in my slavery to him?

However, I do not look on this as a right; as something that SHOULD be given to me just because we are in a relationship. You must remember, if he decided tomorrow to take away this privilege, he would be within his own rights as my owner to do so.

With the context that the question was asked in, my answer will stand. It is not my place to inform or tell Master anything. If Master ASKS me for my input, that instead gives me the PRIVILEGE of speaking freely.

I know that not everyone agrees with the way everyone else conducts their own relationships; so yes, others should follow their own dictates and discuss things openly if that is their wish.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 32

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 9:32:03 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Thanks for the clarification Jaunty, just to be direct, is there anything your master has told you that you are expected to communicate to him? Or are you not allowed to communicate anything to him until/unless specifically asked?

I understand that it doesn't mean you have a right to communicate, but just getting a feel for your specific dynamics.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 33

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 9:32:53 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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From: Chicago, IL
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Daddy welcomes my thoughts and concerns about our relationship whenever and wherever i see there's a problem, somthing that bothers and/or worries me. we have that type of relationship in which my opinions do matter to Him even though He does have final say on anything we discussed. constant communication and being honest with Him brings and keeps us very close together.

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(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 34

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 9:37:50 AM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Thanks for the clarification Jaunty, just to be direct, is there anything your master has told you that you are expected to communicate to him? Or are you not allowed to communicate anything to him until/unless specifically asked?

I understand that it doesn't mean you have a right to communicate, but just getting a feel for your specific dynamics.

Greetings LuckyAlbatross

if the truth be known, Master has made it clear that at any time that I feel the need to address something, I am to speak up; as long as I do so in a respectful manner.

However, you must also understand the kind of person that I am. I generally do not speak unless spoken to, and unless asked a very direct question, I tend to not communicate at all. It is a place of peace for me in this way.

There have been times in the years that I have known Master that there were things that I felt NEEDED badly to be addressed, and in those instances, I did approach them first.

As for specifics as to what I am allowed to discuss with him; he has placed no restrictions on such. It is simply an issue of 'if' you feel the need, do so.

As a side note I would like to add that many of my mannerisms and way of doing things do not come from something that Master has said will be. They are concessions that I myself have made towards a goal that I know Master would like to see fulfilled one day.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 35

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 9:55:00 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

Basically, what I am curious about here is how people feel about this idea (which has been presented to me by some of my most highly regarded D/s and M/s role models) that the slave has the right (responsibility?) to inform the master when he or she is behaving in a way that is unacceptable. Unacceptable could mean anything from "I feel neglected because you aren't giving me enough attention" to "we never play anymore and I feel like something's missing" to "the way you talk to me feels disrespectful" or any variety of constructive criticism within the relationship. I can imagine a lot of people not liking this idea because it doesn't keep with the fantasy of an ever-obedient slave who doesn't speak up no matter what happens. I do personally agree with people who feel this way and I would hope that in any future D/s relationships I may have that my partner feels secure enough to speak up and tell me if something isn't working for him so that we can talk it out and reach a solution. Certainly I would have no trouble bringing those things up to him. But I get the impression that a lot of people's perception of D/s or M/s is simply to obey and not question. I'm curious if that's the case when it comes to the fundemental relationship issues like communication, affection, attention, and respect. Just curious to hear opinions here. Thanks.

In my case, there are so many issues that he isn't addressing that I'm left feeling there is no relationship. I've been patient and understanding, but I'm not a martyr. I died those slow, painful deaths in past vanilla relationships, but I will not do it now. I've done everything I know to do.

Our situation reminds me of something my Mother used to say........ "Either shit or get off the pot!"

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 36

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 10:36:01 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

Basically, what I am curious about here is how people feel about this idea (which has been presented to me by some of my most highly regarded D/s and M/s role models) that the slave has the right (responsibility?) to inform the master when he or she is behaving in a way that is unacceptable.

I would say the word is "Responsibility" not a "Right" with regards to my relationships. I suspose some Dominants don't really care how a submissive is behaving they are not around. However, My girls are expect to maintain to my standards all the time, regardless if I am present or not. For me, it is a question of Integrity that my girls will come forward with situations that they preceived themselves as behaving inappropriately when I am not there.

quote:

Unacceptable could mean anything from "I feel neglected because you aren't giving me enough attention" to "we never play anymore and I feel like something's missing" to "the way you talk to me feels disrespectful" or any variety of constructive criticism within the relationship.

"I Feel" is not a behavior. A feeling is something that is internalized within a person that may or maynot expressed outwardly into a behavior. A behavior is something that someone can observe by another. Often times we an observe that a person is having certain feelings, but that is only because what observe is attributed to those internalized feelings.

quote:

I can imagine a lot of people not liking this idea because it doesn't keep with the fantasy of an ever-obedient slave who doesn't speak up no matter what happens.

Alot of individuals don't want to hear of the internalized feelings and thoughts of their submissives. However, some do. I suspect many confuse having certain feelings and thoughts as being a behavior. Well they are not. I can appreciate that feelings and thoughts often lead to behaviors. But, it is not automatic that feelings or thoughts will lead to a specific behavior. Sometimes we can just have feelings and thoughts.. nothing more and nothing less. Too often individuals jump the gun when we talk about feelings and thoughts that are internalized. We assume that since those feelings and thoughts exist that they will automatically lead to the behavior. When we don't like that behavior, we suddenly develop our own negative feelings and thoughts and make choices in behaviors as result. The interesting thing is that it is actually our assumption that another's feelings and thoughts will lead to a negative behavior that cause us to react and not a behavior in of itself.

quote:

I do personally agree with people who feel this way and I would hope that in any future D/s relationships I may have that my partner feels secure enough to speak up and tell me if something isn't working for him so that we can talk it out and reach a solution. Certainly I would have no trouble bringing those things up to him. But I get the impression that a lot of people's perception of D/s or M/s is simply to obey and not question. I'm curious if that's the case when it comes to the fundemental relationship issues like communication, affection, attention, and respect. Just curious to hear opinions here. Thanks.

Within my dynamics it is required that the thoughts and feelings of my girls are shared. However, Just because they have negative feelings and thoughts doesn't equate to a freedom to express those feelings and thoughts in any old way. Having feelings and thoughts is not the same as behaviors. Even negative feelings and thoughts can be expression into a constructive behavior.... takes effort but it can be done. The expression of those feelings and thoughts is behavior. When the behavior is expressed constructively it is much easier to observe and also respond to

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 37

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 10:48:55 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

However, that a slave should make the determination that their owner's behavior is unacceptable is a bit different. There are few cases where I would agree that this is a good idea. I would agree, for example, if the owner did something that violated the slave's core values. For example, if a slave is a Christian and the owner attempt to force them to participate in Satanic rites... that would be a good (if unlikely) example of violating core values and thus unacceptable. In such cases the slave probably only has one recourse, return the collar and leave. But if the slave is regularly deciding the dominant's behavior is unacceptable, I think you've set a course for creating a demanding submissive who ends up "wearing the pants."

I believe this is a question of the motivation of the questioning of an owner's behavior.

In the one unlikely example you give.. it relates to a person feeling their boundaries are being violated. In general, I would say it is pretty healthy for anyone to question or even challenge another's behavior that crosses one's boundaries. If the behavior presists of crossing such boundary then it is not likely the relationship will last. Or the person will recognize adjust their behavior in respect of the other person and a desire to have the relationship.

However, the question can be motivated for alot of reasons. Sometimes it is an internal motivation like protecting one's boundaries and sometimes the motivations could be external, such as the Dominant has instructed the submissive to advise the Dominant everytime the submissive precieves the Dominant doing X to say so. Regardless if the motivation is internal or external, it is a question of is it healthy for the relationship. Does it bring them closer together or further apart?

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 4/7/2007 10:51:40 AM >

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Post #: 38

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 10:56:45 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
I also find that many submissives, especially those that identify or are owned as slaves, have trouble expressing their feelings even when allowed and encouraged to do so.

Which is always the fun and iroinc part because in this way they are trying to retain control and allowing their own personal feelings to decide their behavior- even as they claim to be doing it so as NOT to take control and submit to the other.

this Irony is missed by many Dominants and submissives alike.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 39

RE: Is your D/s relationship a 2 way street? - 4/7/2007 11:13:45 AM

curiouslyseeking

Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
I also find that many submissives, especially those that identify or are owned as slaves, have trouble expressing their feelings even when allowed and encouraged to do so.

Which is always the fun and iroinc part because in this way they are trying to retain control and allowing their own personal feelings to decide their behavior- even as they claim to be doing it so as NOT to take control and submit to the other.

Greetings LA and Padriag,

Very interesting...a perspective that I definitely need to look at more closely.

Always,
~curious~

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"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 40

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