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Curious - 3/14/2007 6:27:35 AM

Devilslilsister

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i was over at a friends house the other day and i popped a statement up that we ended up debating. We ended with "agree to disagree" type thing, but i'm curious as to what you all think.

Can you rape a (collared, owned) slave? On top of that can a (collared, owned) slave withdraw consent and yet still continue on the relationship? Basically, do you all think a (collared, owned) slave can say "i'm not in the mood" (hence withdrawing consent) and if the slave's Dom continues on it is rape?

_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

Post #: 1

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 6:35:00 AM

Dnomyar

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If you continue to force yourself on whoever then there is a breakdown in the relationship. Where is the communication?

(in reply to Devilslilsister)

Post #: 2

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 6:35:16 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

i was over at a friends house the other day and i popped a statement up that we ended up debating. We ended with "agree to disagree" type thing, but i'm curious as to what you all think.

Can you rape a (collared, owned) slave? On top of that can a (collared, owned) slave withdraw consent and yet still continue on the relationship? Basically, do you all think a (collared, owned) slave can say "i'm not in the mood" (hence withdrawing consent) and if the slave's Dom continues on it is rape?

The definition of rape is "against one's will" which means non consentual, therefore yes a sub/slave can be raped. If a sub/slave tells her dom she's not in the mood, he has the choice to do many things - release her, punish her, find another sub/slave etc.

i am not sure what you mean by "withdraw her consent", then still continue on with the relationship. If you mean consent to sex on demand - if you do then yes the relationship can continue, but the dynamics have shifted and maybe it's not D/s anymore. Maybe how much control the subs comfy with needs to be remegotiated. If the doms not in agreement then hes free to release you, or stay, be vanilla, D/s part time, whatever they feel will make both satisfied.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Devilslilsister)

Post #: 3

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 6:43:44 AM

StellaByStarlite

Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
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Hello. =)

Oh, a tricky question, and a good one. =)

Rape can happen under other circumstances. If a slave is too sick to fully realize what is going on, then yes, it is rape. If a master uses forced sex out of anger and ends up damaging the slave badly, I'd say that would be rape as well. In short, when the Master no longer behaves in a sane, honorable manner, when he or she obviously does not take the well-being of the slave into consideration, then it would be abuse and rape, yes.

If, for example, I got trashed and passed out, then my owner decided to take advantage of my state, I'd feel horribly betrayed. Major trust would be broken. Yes, I'd feel raped.

just my opinion,
Stella

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 4

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 6:51:22 AM

PapiNsweet

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imo, a slave cannot be raped by their Owner. the Owner has the right to do what they will to their property, therefore a slave's consent is irrelevant once they have actually become property and made that final choice.

(daddysprop247)

(in reply to StellaByStarlite)

Post #: 5

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 6:52:45 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
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From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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i don't think i could ever tell Him i'm just not in the mood, but yes, i definitely think it's possible for a collared slave to be raped. first of all, by someone outside of the relationship, but second of all, within the relationship, if the dominant knows something that's going on is psychologically harming the slave, he has the responsibility to stop. i agree very much with the first part of stella's post, about forcing sex out of anger, etc.

eta: i would -feel- raped, but i don't necessarily think this is one of those cases where it'd be taken to court, or anything like that. i wouldn't necessarily fight Him on it. it's just a matter of the emotional damage that results - it would definitely harm our relationship and feel very much like rape to me.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 3/14/2007 6:58:32 AM >

(in reply to Devilslilsister)

Post #: 6

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 6:54:26 AM

mixielicous

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From: Boston area, Massachusetts
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i can say no, but He doesnt have to listen. and it wouldnt be rape. i'm not alllowed to say no, thats part of the deal. sides, when He pushes Himself on me, i am usually in the mood in a few minutes

daddysprop, screenname for your Master? fun!

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to PapiNsweet)

Post #: 7

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 6:56:15 AM

PapiNsweet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

daddysprop, screenname for your Master? fun!

yes, he never signs out, dangit.....

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 8

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 6:56:46 AM

bayboundse

Posts: 288
Joined: 10/29/2005
From: Oak Ridge, TN
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I think this would all be covered by the people in the start of the relationship..limits ect. If The owner/Master/Dom has total sexual use of the slave and thats agreed upon from the start the slave can not be raped unles the slave withdraws and changes the relationship. Then the Dom may end the relationship or the two of them can restart agian under new rules.

(in reply to PapiNsweet)

Post #: 9

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 6:57:37 AM

Devilslilsister

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quote:

If, for example, I got trashed and passed out, then my owner decided to take advantage of my state,

and here i thought that that would just be hot. heheheh

So, if in a collared/owned relationship - where a slave "consents" at the begining, to consent...... she can change her mind to not consent at any given moment? Isnt the slave, in a way going back on her/his orginal word of "consenting". When you consent (of course its all depending on the dynamics)... and then withdraw consent, arent you breaking down the whole M/s? IE dissolving the relationship?

Wouldnt it be more like "consentual, non consentual sex" rather then rape?

_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to StellaByStarlite)

Post #: 10

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 6:59:07 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

quote:

If, for example, I got trashed and passed out, then my owner decided to take advantage of my state,

and here i thought that that would just be hot. heheheh

So, if in a collared/owned relationship - where a slave "consents" at the begining, to consent...... she can change her mind to not consent at any given moment? Isnt the slave, in a way going back on her/his orginal word of "consenting". When you consent (of course its all depending on the dynamics)... and then withdraw consent, arent you breaking down the whole M/s? IE dissolving the relationship?

Wouldnt it be more like "consentual, non consentual sex" rather then rape?

legally, you cannot give consent in an intoxicated state. here, at least.

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to Devilslilsister)

Post #: 11

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 6:59:35 AM

StellaByStarlite

Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

i don't think i could ever tell Him i'm just not in the mood, but yes, i definitely think it's possible for a collared slave to be raped. first of all, by someone outside of the relationship, but second of all, within the relationship, if the dominant knows something that's going on is psychologically harming the slave, he has the responsibility to stop. i agree very much with the first part of stella's post, about forcing sex out of anger, etc.

Yeah, I really do feel that it depends on the circumstance. =) I'd never be able to just flippantly say to my owner" Oh, no thanks, I have to wash my hair!" LOL! As to which he'd say.. "Too bad... spread"

BUT... if I were genuinely sick, in pain, or emotionally wrung out, and he still insisted on sex, I'd still obey, but I would absolutely feel betrayed and degraded. If he was doing something to me sexually that was physically damaging and refused to stop, then by default, he no longer has MY well being at heart and has failed as a Master.

Stella

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 12

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 7:00:34 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

quote:

If, for example, I got trashed and passed out, then my owner decided to take advantage of my state,

and here i thought that that would just be hot. heheheh

So, if in a collared/owned relationship - where a slave "consents" at the begining, to consent...... she can change her mind to not consent at any given moment? Isnt the slave, in a way going back on her/his orginal word of "consenting". When you consent (of course its all depending on the dynamics)... and then withdraw consent, arent you breaking down the whole M/s? IE dissolving the relationship?

Wouldnt it be more like "consentual, non consentual sex" rather then rape?

i consented to it because i thought He would act in my best interests. He knows me inside and out. if something is emotionally or psychologically harmful to the extreme, and He doesn't stop, that would make me reconsider whether we are the right fit as master and slave. but i think it's not so much whether it should be called "rape," as the fact that it would feel very much like rape (to me) and it would cause harm to the relationship.

(in reply to Devilslilsister)

Post #: 13

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 7:00:42 AM

bayboundse

Posts: 288
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From: Oak Ridge, TN
Status: offline

If the relationship is based on total sexual control is that not consent at anytime?

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 14

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 7:02:26 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
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From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

i don't think i could ever tell Him i'm just not in the mood, but yes, i definitely think it's possible for a collared slave to be raped. first of all, by someone outside of the relationship, but second of all, within the relationship, if the dominant knows something that's going on is psychologically harming the slave, he has the responsibility to stop. i agree very much with the first part of stella's post, about forcing sex out of anger, etc.

Yeah, I really do feel that it depends on the circumstance. =) I'd never be able to just flippantly say to my owner" Oh, no thanks, I have to wash my hair!" LOL! As to which he'd say.. "Too bad... spread"

BUT... if I were genuinely sick, in pain, or emotionally wrung out, and he still insisted on sex, I'd still obey, but I would absolutely feel betrayed and degraded. If he was doing something to me sexually that was physically damaging and refused to stop, then by default, he no longer has MY well being at heart and has failed as a Master.

Stella

for me, i don't necessarily think being sick or emotionally wrung out falls into this category - for me. but i do think that, say, doing something that he knows is a touchy area for me (knife play, electrical play, rape play), and plunging ahead with it when he knows i'm not reacting well at all, and not stopping when i'm, well, a mess, and it's clear there's something wrong, that kind of scenario falls into what i'm talking about.

(in reply to StellaByStarlite)

Post #: 15

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 7:02:54 AM

Driver1961

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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He dips His lid to all;

Umm, well here we go with the 'slave n Master bit' of property rights again. It is this 'property'view that many Masters take as a licence for 'topping Sadism' that I take issue. A distinct No means what?- Yes???!!! like come-on where is the consent? It is non-consentual acts perpetrated upon victims that are criminal offences. Whether the so called 'Master' produced a contract of slavery or not, I would have rigously pursued this form of sex offence investigation to alleviate the psychological harm caused upon the victim by another who sees HisHer Master status as nullifying any form of consideration upon their actions on a fellow human being. Any court in any (so called) civilized country would seek to protect a basic human principle- the right of choice. Being a so called Master offers no protection but a media frenzy of deserved exposure. I'd have told my bosses to put it before a jury to decide.

Regards to all, Driver.

_____________________________

Dance as though nobody is watching!

(in reply to StellaByStarlite)

Post #: 16

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 7:04:19 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

i was over at a friends house the other day and i popped a statement up that we ended up debating. We ended with "agree to disagree" type thing, but i'm curious as to what you all think.

Can you rape a (collared, owned) slave? On top of that can a (collared, owned) slave withdraw consent and yet still continue on the relationship? Basically, do you all think a (collared, owned) slave can say "i'm not in the mood" (hence withdrawing consent) and if the slave's Dom continues on it is rape?

I had to think about this for a minute, but I think that a slave cannot be raped, but they can feel (and possibly be) violated and/or exploited. To me the main thing is that a slave consents to be used sexually whenever (including when they are not in the mood). But, I think that someone unaware (or niave) about what they've consented to who then decides to change their mind may feel violated in the type of situation you outlined.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

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The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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(in reply to Devilslilsister)

Post #: 17

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 7:08:08 AM

Devilslilsister

Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
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quote:

BUT... if I were genuinely sick, in pain, or emotionally wrung out, and he still insisted on sex, I'd still obey, but I would absolutely feel betrayed and degraded. If he was doing something to me sexually that was physically damaging and refused to stop, then by default, he no longer has MY well being at heart and has failed as a Master.

True, you might be unhappy about it. But in the begining, did you consent to obey no matter what? (no matter what being a realistic idea here.... if he said to jump off a bridge that wouldnt be realistic) Almost like the marriage vows. "to honor obey in sickness and in health" So you are only a slave when you are healthy? In sickness you arent? (obviously the physical damage.. ie long term damage.. isnt realistic either)

You wouldnt feel "in good use" even if you were sick? You wouldnt be happy to submit? (and heck, sometimes getting laid while your sick can be quite nice, all those unpleasant feelings and whooosh... a rush of pleasure!)

P.S. i'm not being personal here.. just debating the debate.

_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to StellaByStarlite)

Post #: 18

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 7:12:41 AM

Driver1961

Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

He dips His lid again.

Sorry to disagree with some people that I really respect here but simply what is the bottom line at LAW, forget the BDSM world, get into the real world. No is No, and real-life people will clearly acknowledge that and attempt to seek empowerment for the wronged.

Lordy Lordy Lordy, My Master is no longer- I have been freed, I ams free, and I have the law to thank for that.

_____________________________

Dance as though nobody is watching!

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 19

RE: Curious - 3/14/2007 7:15:15 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

driver, i think the question asked here has more to do within the context of the relationship...for example, unless He turned into an abusive person who no longer cared about even whether or not i was in decent condition as property, let alone anything else, i can't imagine leaving Him - even if something like this happened, where i felt raped. so it's likely it would never even get to the point of legal action (the time in which i can say i was truly, actually raped never did, either). the law is pretty clear on what it considers rape, even if it's not particularly clear on whether or not it follows through with that in a lot of cases. but i think this has more to do with whether or not people think it's possible for that feeling to be recreated within the boundaries of this kind of relationship. nonetheless, the "reality check" is -very- much appreciated...i think it's good someone is having the voice of the law in this thread, because it is a really necessary reminder :)

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 3/14/2007 7:16:01 AM >

(in reply to Driver1961)

Post #: 20

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