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Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 11:18:13 AM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline 		If you are a dominant who finds excitement in "making" your submissive do what you wish... who enjoys the power of pushing your sub beyond previous boundaries, knowing that he/she is uncomfortable in doing so, would a sub who "lays down" and submits willingly, without complaint or trouble, take some of the thrill out of it, for you?


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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 11:39:46 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I'd have to find a sub who was not only intelligent, whimsical, spiritual, experienced, secure, mature, responsible AND easy and always willing and no trouble at all right from the start first.

Good relationships take time, energy and work, in Ds and Ms usually a fair amount of focused training as well.  Life brings its own troubles and difficulties without any of their help as well.

If I ever found this unicorn?  Yeah I'd be pretty happy.  Until then, I am fulfilled with becoming and shaping my partner to become unicorns.

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 12:05:07 PM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		I tend to think Doms seek subs who they can see resist things against their nature and do them any way. It's knowing they submit for you  in ways they would not on their own is hot as hell.

I think it's the seeing the sub struggle more than being defiant that's a posative thing.

I'd think a bratty "make me" approach is not a big turn on for most.
Of course being I'm sub I'm just talking out my butt and not from hands on experience.
If I had it in me to be a Dom a "Make Me" sub would have walking papers pretty quick and it would not be cute at all.
suzanne

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 12:08:08 PM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

If you are a dominant who finds excitement in "making" your submissive do what you wish... who enjoys the power of pushing your sub beyond previous boundaries, knowing that he/she is uncomfortable in doing so, would a sub who "lays down" and submits willingly, without complaint or trouble, take some of the thrill out of it, for you?


No, I don't like complaining.  If he discussed his fears with me and we continued to discuss, he researched, decided he trusted me and wanted to please me, that would be incredibly thrilling.  I don't think that is complaining or making trouble.  But the thing I find more exciting:  acknowledging his apprehensions, acknowedging my skill level, knowing I would not harm him and trusting me with that and making an intelligent decision that he wants to willingly submit.  Yummy.

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~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 12:08:11 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		nope, cause they are still grapeing, and I can find something to give them pause.

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 1:55:34 PM   
bastardandthewen


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: offline 		I'm a fighter.

The thought of submitting is absolutely terrifying to me. I get off on fear, by the way.


I rarely submit to anyone easilly. It is a concious effort everytime on my part to let down my guard and allow it to happen. The very act of submitting, being it something simple or a very difficult task...no matter...it all makes me feel vulnerable somehow. After years with the Bastard, any struggle that occurs now is more playful, and not genuine. It works for us because it amuses him to win, and if he is not in the mood, one look is enough to make me simmer the hell down, fast.

I am a control freak. I won't go into the background here, but through my life I have learned that if i want things done, then its best if ~i~ do it. I rely on my own strength and trust myself more then anyone else i have ever encountered. Giving up that control then, even for a brief period, leaves me feeling very exposed.

It is an odd sensation to look at someone you know/likely care about (i don't do so well with strangers), know you can trust them, but STILL have to remind yourself over and over "they won't harm me". But everytime, i have to remind myself of this fact over and over before i can let down defences and let them in. Usually, this whole struggle goes on in my head, and is not something my partner has to work through at all.

I also studied a fair bit of feminist stuff in early uni years. And it is a battle to balance the effects of that information with the action of submitting to a man (I'm not being mysogynous -I'm speaking on a personal level, and i tend to the domme side with other women). I guess on some level it is an extension of all this that i personally feel "lesser" when i am submitting. (flames to my email, and not here taking the thread off topic, please). I feel a loss of status, and the very act of submitting at all is degrading/humiliating, even before serious play has begun. I don't give in easy, therefore, cause i don't want to risk a loss of respect.

Oddly enough, when the roles are reversed and i am topping, i dont feel my partner is lower then i am in any fashion...i just can't seem to retain that sense of equality when i bottom.

I'm described by Bastard as a "socially Dominant Wench". I tend to hide behind such things alot. I am obnoxiously loud and outgoing...but it covers up the very shy and easilly embarrased side of my personality. And I jump in to take control of most situations to hide the fact that i really really want to find someone strong enough to take that control from me. The fight, and the loosing is absolutely thrilling to me.

Yes, I am aware that this is topping from the bottom, apparently. All I can offer in my own defense to that is the few people i have actually tried this with seemed to find it highly asmusing in the "awww, isn't she sweet, *pat pat*" sort of way. I imagine if i ever had the poor judgement to try this with someone for whom it would not be in the slightest bit funny, i would quickly pick up on thier displeasure and feel instant remorse.

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 2:02:38 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		Depends on in what way(s) and to what extent...  I am not one who enjoys a brat or a "see if you can make me submit" sort; I enjoy those that are accepting and comfortable in their submission and give it with a joyful willingness.

But that's a world away from "do whatever" sub.

I'd say it's rather like the difference between having one's lover lay back doing nothing while enjoying one's caresses and having one's "lover" lay their like a dead fish.

I enjoy someone who I can push, who has limits and worries and quirks I can play on, but who wants to go there.  Someone who doesn't even have any of these things, no areas they're uncomfortable with or can grow in, just strikes me as someone without much of a personality.  Dull, to me.

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 3:15:52 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		sorry but i'm not easy. if you're going to push me into something i'm not willing to do, i'm going to fight.  some may call that "bratty" submissiveness however if you're fully aware i'm not into whatever it is and you still insist i do it,  we would part company right then and there. this is why i make my concerns/feelings known to a person before going any further into a relationship. i don't mind someone pushing my limits yet i have to be comfortable doing it.

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 3:38:00 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I was kinda hoping we could haul out the 50 cals and start shelling the intercostal ways-------------------


Sgt. Rock


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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 4:41:23 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I don't feel that most subs/slaves have found their 'conclusion', the end of the journey.  Where all of life's mysteries and surprises are mundane.

So if the question is whether I enjoy nudging that person along and keep the journey moving along, pushing physical and/or emotional limits or expanding their repertoire of experiences, then here would be my response.

Oh my yes.

Of course, the way that I do so has not yet resulted in anyone kicking and screaming to get out, or fighting the outcome, or anything like that.  I have a pretty thorough understanding of whom I'm dealing with, and tailor my methods to get the results that, ultimately, we both want.

I don't truly believe subs/slaves want an easy time of things.

Jeff

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 4:41:48 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

If you are a dominant who finds excitement in "making" your submissive do what you wish... who enjoys the power of pushing your sub beyond previous boundaries, knowing that he/she is uncomfortable in doing so, would a sub who "lays down" and submits willingly, without complaint or trouble, take some of the thrill out of it, for you?



A valid complaint should always be aired....Trouble is another matter.  Who wants constant trouble in their relationship?. Life is just to damn short to be spent with someone who brings you grief or continually 'rubs you the wrong way."

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 5:03:09 PM   
speednut


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline 		While the act of submission is expected,  the tasks I set forth will challenge her strength, character, and limits. All with the hope we both learn more about ourselves and the necessary interaction between two forces, one Dominant and the other submissive. Having said that, I absolutely need a submissive to understand and know her place yet yearn to serve my needs. I do not desire to force anyone to do something they feel is repulsive or beyond their ability to accept whatever consequences my face them.

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 5:06:03 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline 		Okay... allow me to ramble on here with a train of thought and maybe clarify my question just a bit.

There's been some discussions on the boards here recently that have demonstrated some aspects of domination that I hadn't really considered and in essence, my curiosity has been piqued.  To a degree, I've discussed those things with FirmHandKY as they relate to him and me, but I'd really like to get a broader feel and perhaps gain some additional perspective.

What I'd like to know is if the "turn on" for you (or your significant other) is the exercise of power in a voluntary or involuntary manner.  I'm not really talking about consent here... leaving aside the vehicles we use to establish and maintain relationships, I'm asking about the base pleasure you feel in dominating.  What turns you on... gets your motor running... floats your boat?

Is it the power of having someone trust you to the point of turning all control over to you... of simply being in the position to say what and how things are done (voluntary submission or submission that is willingly given)?

Or is it the power of being able to exert control and overcome any obstacles (involuntary submission or making someone submit)?   And to clarify, I'm not referring to "bratty" or argumentative behavior... but genuine reluctance to the point of refusal.

I suppose an example would be rape.  Many have talked of rape fantasies, but there's also an acknowledgement that they can seem somehow less because in a BDSM relationship, there is always (hopefully) underlying consent.  So they aren't really rape but merely role playing a rape.

If there were no social, moral or legal ramifications, does the idea of being able to select someone off the street that attracted you and do with them what you wanted, with no regard to what they wanted or whether they liked it or not, would that be the kind of dominance that turns you on most?

And if so, does having a submissive who willingly and happily agrees to submit to you... perhaps one who pledges you no limits and never gives you the opportunity to flex your "control" muscles... would that somehow diminish the "turn-on" for you?

*sighs*  edited to correct poor grammar


< Message edited by losttreasure -- 2/27/2007 5:30:39 PM >

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 5:06:49 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		It has never been the case in my experience that a woman had a defining life moment from giving me head, they were just ajoy to be in the instant of the gratification of a job well blown.





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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 5:44:20 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

If there were no social, moral or legal ramifications, does the idea of being able to select someone off the street that attracted you and do with them what you wanted, with no regard to what they wanted or whether they liked it or not, would that be the kind of dominance that turns you on most?



I think this particular section is the crux of your original OP.  If so, I will elaborate on what I said above.

The simple answer is 'no'.  I appreciate consent.  Although kidnapping and the Stockholm Syndrome and all sounds like great fun, it's rather risky.  So to repeat, I appreciate consent.

But I think that what I mean by 'consent' is that there is consent that I will be the top or dominant or Master or whatever, and that my partner will carry on from there.  I do 'get off' on the friction, taking her further (either physically or emotionally) than at times past, or overcoming a limit, or the pleasure that comes from understanding something new about herself.  For me, these are the defining moments, it's not (simply) the kinky sex.

I don't necessarily seek out the rough patches where doubt might creep in, but I revel in being able to work through the issues and make a better submissive (or person) out of her.  And the higher level of trust and devotion that comes with that.

Jeff

Edited to add:  Let me give an example.  I was once with a partner that 'refused' any sort of activity towards her 'bottom' other than using toys to implement great pain.

No pleasure, no anal sex, we're talking (quasi) hard limit.

I explained that I understood her resistance, but that sooner or later I was certain her mind would change through my 'methods'.

I won't elaborate on the details on how this took place or the length of time, but by the end (ha, 'end') not only was she craving anal sex, but was voluntarily (not by my request or instruction, but simply on sheer desire) wearing a butt plug while at work for 8 hours at a time a couple of days a week.

Don't you think this was a source of great pride for me?

Jeff (redux)

< Message edited by mstrjx -- 2/27/2007 5:49:18 PM >

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 5:44:29 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure
If there were no social, moral or legal ramifications, does the idea of being able to select someone off the street that attracted you and do with them what you wanted, with no regard to what they wanted or whether they liked it or not, would that be the kind of dominance that turns you on most?

No, it turns me on and makes me hot and is something I do at conventions (obviously with consent involved), but it's not what turns me on most or what I want for a long term situation.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 5:47:15 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure
If there were no social, moral or legal ramifications, does the idea of being able to select someone off the street that attracted you and do with them what you wanted, with no regard to what they wanted or whether they liked it or not, would that be the kind of dominance that turns you on most?




They would have to have some big tits, and an ass that wouldnt quit, and clean up after.............

I have some principles.

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 5:52:25 PM   
azzmaster


Posts: 864
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		i just like subs to b real. if they ez they ez, if they sassy i will deal with it. i don't like it when they try to "act" a certain way. i m a simple guy, however i get up that booty i m happy

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 5:57:51 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They would have to have some big tits, and an ass that wouldnt quit, and clean up after.............

I have some principles.


Ron... sometimes your pithy and humorous comments provide a much needed respite, but are you capable of making a thoughtful response?


_____________________________

Just because it isn't "all about me", doesn't make it "all about you".

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RE: Easy Submissives... - 2/27/2007 5:59:01 PM   
bastardandthewen


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

Okay... allow me to ramble on here with a train of thought and maybe clarify my question just a bit.

There's been some discussions on the boards here recently that have demonstrated some aspects of domination that I hadn't really considered and in essence, my curiosity has been piqued.  To a degree, I've discussed those things with FirmHandKY as they relate to him and me, but I'd really like to get a broader feel and perhaps gain some additional perspective.

What I'd like to know is if the "turn on" for you (or your significant other) is the exercise of power in a voluntary or involuntary manner.  I'm not really talking about consent here... leaving aside the vehicles we use to establish and maintain relationships, I'm asking about the base pleasure you feel in dominating.  What turns you on... gets your motor running... floats your boat?

Is it the power of having someone trust you to the point of turning all control over to you... of simply being in the position to say what and how things are done (voluntary submission or submission that is willingly given)?

Or is it the power of being able to exert control and overcome any obstacles (involuntary submission or making someone submit)?   And to clarify, I'm not referring to "bratty" or argumentative behavior... but genuine reluctance to the point of refusal.

I suppose an example would be rape.  Many have talked of rape fantasies, but there's also an acknowledgement that they can seem somehow less because in a BDSM relationship, there is always (hopefully) underlying consent.  So they aren't really rape but merely role playing a rape.

If there were no social, moral or legal ramifications, does the idea of being able to select someone off the street that attracted you and do with them what you wanted, with no regard to what they wanted or whether they liked it or not, would that be the kind of dominance that turns you on most?

And if so, does having a submissive who willingly and happily agrees to submit to you... perhaps one who pledges you no limits and never gives you the opportunity to flex your "control" muscles... would that somehow diminish the "turn-on" for you?

*sighs*  edited to correct poor grammar



consensual non-consent. I've agreed to be his, I've handed him the control -  and yes, it is a turn on for me to sidestep, protest and downright deny, only to have him TAKE it anyway.

< Message edited by bastardandthewen -- 2/27/2007 6:01:11 PM >

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