quote:

ORIGINAL: wickednnc


Study the American Revolution and the French Revolution. Systems of government do not change on their own, nor will they ever change when all those who would affect that change are bled off into easier environs. 
 

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

No one is talking about stopping all immigration. People just want ILLEGAL immigration stopped. There are 1.2 million illegal aliens crossing into the United States every year. Some of them could be carrying disease, and terrorists can cross into the US through this route.
Number one way disease is transmitted is through refugees and immigration. This is accoring to the World Health Organization.

We have caught illegals with typhoid fever, measles, whooping cough, and even a case of bubonic plague.
Our hospital rooms are shutting down in the border states. Maternity wards have shut down. In my city there are 3 hospitals. Two of the hospitals have stopped delivering babies because the hospital can no longer afford pregnant illegals going into the ER, having the baby delivered, and then walk out without paying a dime.

This insanity needs to stop. Secure the border!!!

Americans weren't too worried about terrorism when they were funding Irish terrorism. As for desease, I haven't been aware of any outbreaks of contageous deseases in America caused by illegal Mexicans. If there was really a chance of that the US authorities would be helping Mexico out because such deseases don't heed borders. If the hospitals are closing down, that is not a problem of illegals but a problem of politics. Europe manages to give medical care to its illegals without having to close hospitals down. Most illegals do work and contribute to society even if indirectly and even if they didn't, just out of pure human decency people should care for the people in their midst, illegal or not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wickednnc

quote:

Services are being swamped in this country by people who offer no contribution to those services except the cheap lettuce and cauliflower on your plate at dinner.

This is often said but never proven.  Schools are paid for by property taxes and unless you live under a bridge or in a dumpster then you pay property tax.  Income and social security taxes are deducted from the workers pay but pocketed by the employer.
 

 
Center for Immigration Services:
 

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

There's a lot more. Be responsible and do some of your own research though rather than asking someone else to do it for you.

I simply ask you to substantiate your position.  Since you failed to include a link I googled "Center for Immigration Services"  of the 16 million entries I went through the first ten pages and found no such organization.  Perhaps you might share a link to your site of reference.

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Mexico isn't concerned about its people as much as it is concerned about the money earned here comprises a large portion of its GNP.

Perhaps you might enlighten us as to just how large that portion is.  Keep in mind that California is the 6th largest economy in the world and Mexico is California's biggest customer.

According to figures compiled by Marije van Lidthe de Jeude, a Dutch anthropologist and independent researcher who has worked with the United Nations and other international organizations, Central American remittances have grown "exponentially" since 1990, reaching a point in 2003 when migrant dollars constituted 20 percent of the gross national product (GNP) of El Salvador and 30 percent of the GNP of Nicaragua. For Mexico, the figure is about 2 %.

Two percent does not seem to be a "large percentage of Mexico's GNP.

quote:


We are their relief valve.
We would all be interested in knowing just what this phrase means.  Do you think you might enlighten us with some specifics?

Study the American Revolution and the French Revolution. Systems of government do not change on their own, nor will they ever change when all those who would affect that change are bled off into easier environs.

A study of all revolutions, not just the French and American, will show that the revolution always come  from the intelligencia and not the lower economic classes that come here from Mexico.


You seem to mistake my post for debating whether or not they should be allowed to come here and work. I'm not. Our economy has evolved to virtually require their presence.

Our economy does not require the presence of illegal aliens.  It is the greed of some, not all, americans that attracts them.



The status quo however is nothing more than an unannounced invasion. Either we control it, or it will eventually control us.

It's not rocket science. Spend some time doing the research instead of arguing points over which you have little to no understanding.

Please do not assume that I am ignorant. 
thompson



 
 
 

 

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

That's why 88 hospitals in S. California have gone bankrupt and have gone totally out of business.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

That's why 88 hospitals in S. California have gone bankrupt and have gone totally out of business.

That has nothing to do with affordability but politics. Correct me if I'm wrong popeye but America has 11 aircraft carriers with acommpanying fleets, it is fighting a war in Iraq and has troops stationed in about 40 countries around the world and thousands of nuclear weapons. Not only that it is the richest counttry in the world and barely taxes its rich. In fact I would go further and say the US is a welfare state for the rich, the very idea that the US can't afford minimal healthcare for the poor and dispossessed is absurd and if you buy into that then you have swallowed the American establishment's propaganda hook, line and sinker.

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

That's why 88 hospitals in S. California have gone bankrupt and have gone totally out of business.

That has nothing to do with affordability but politics. Correct me if I'm wrong popeye but America has 11 aircraft carriers with acommpanying fleets, it is fighting a war in Iraq and has troops stationed in about 40 countries around the world and thousands of nuclear weapons. Not only that it is the richest counttry in the world and barely taxes its rich. In fact I would go further and say the US is a welfare state for the rich, the very idea that the US can't afford minimal healthcare for the poor and dispossessed is absurd and if you buy into that then you have swallowed the American establishment's propaganda hook, line and sinker.

Ahhh,..........because they're not (our) citizens?

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

That's why 88 hospitals in S. California have gone bankrupt and have gone totally out of business.

That has nothing to do with affordability but politics. Correct me if I'm wrong popeye but America has 11 aircraft carriers with acommpanying fleets, it is fighting a war in Iraq and has troops stationed in about 40 countries around the world and thousands of nuclear weapons. Not only that it is the richest counttry in the world and barely taxes its rich. In fact I would go further and say the US is a welfare state for the rich, the very idea that the US can't afford minimal healthcare for the poor and dispossessed is absurd and if you buy into that then you have swallowed the American establishment's propaganda hook, line and sinker.

Ahhh,..........because they're not (our) citizens?

I guess that is where we differ popeye. I have no problem thinking some of my tax money might be paying for healthcare for some illegals who are more unfortunate than me and whose life is on the perifery of society and who could end up being arrested and deported at any moment.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

How many billions are wasted imprisoning people for 2 or 3 years PRIOR to their deportation?

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ORIGINAL: wickednnc
For the same reason your government complains about you if you work and pay no taxes. Services are being swamped in this country by people who offer no contribution to those services except the cheap lettuce and cauliflower on your plate at dinner. A large portion of the money earned is then shipped out of the country to support a failed and corrupt system of government. Mexico isn't concerned about its people as much as it is concerned about the money earned here comprises a large portion of its GNP.

We are their relief valve. The solution to this problem doesn't take an act of genius. Create a worker program that identifies and tracks users, adjust the born in this country = citizen of this country law to except those here on work permits, require employers to register workers by permit, and as the initial poster indicated, enforce the law. Part of that law should be severe penalties for any US employer who does not register their employees.

Send a few CEO's to jail, and this problem will resolve itself.

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ORIGINAL: MasterKalif

quote:

ORIGINAL: wickednnc
For the same reason your government complains about you if you work and pay no taxes. Services are being swamped in this country by people who offer no contribution to those services except the cheap lettuce and cauliflower on your plate at dinner. A large portion of the money earned is then shipped out of the country to support a failed and corrupt system of government. Mexico isn't concerned about its people as much as it is concerned about the money earned here comprises a large portion of its GNP.

We are their relief valve. The solution to this problem doesn't take an act of genius. Create a worker program that identifies and tracks users, adjust the born in this country = citizen of this country law to except those here on work permits, require employers to register workers by permit, and as the initial poster indicated, enforce the law. Part of that law should be severe penalties for any US employer who does not register their employees.

Send a few CEO's to jail, and this problem will resolve itself.

wickednnc, my government doesn't complain about me, because I am not a burden to the state, any state for that matter...I work and pay taxes like everyone else, and when I was a student I still filed taxes even though my income was neglible. I strongly disagree in that illegals do not contribute because in fact they get shortchanged any way you look at it....they work, therefore money is automatically taken out for taxes, they are most likely afraid to ask for a return lest the US gov. looks too closely into their situation and be deported back to wherever they came from. These taxes then can be used by IRS at will and are contributed into the system. They also work, and their work also benefits the US economy (not Mexico's or another country) and people in the US benefit from their labor. The employer usually pays them less too than most American workers. I don't see how sending remittances back to their hungry and struggling families constitute helping the Mexican government. In any case to assume the Mexican government wishes not to care is simply hearsay. While the Mexican government can be overwhelmingly corrupt, slow, and self-serving, this is changing under the last couple of governments since the oust of the PRI ruling party.Furthermore, 2% of GNP is not a large portion as in those other countries you mentioned like Nicaragua, etc.

The real "money drain" are not illegals sending back their meagre earnings back home, but a US government that has borrowed heavily to finance a war that makes no sense and does the US no good....the drain is arms and an overstretched military involved in places they should have never stepped in except as military attaches.

I disagree in punishing companies for this...working is not a crime, and the employer is competing with cheap wages in China and India who produce now similar things....as such then, this is necessary. My whole point is that the law needs to be changed in that an illegal alien should be allowed to work if he or she wants, but make sure the Govt. gets their taxes and money to support them and other Americans. Remember, aliens are people too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

My story, by Uber Illegal Aliena.
Actually.. I worked for a large US company for ten years where I made the luxurious sum of 8.75 an hour then lost my job due to my health.
I do not qualify for: Medicaid, Medicare, SSI disability. I've been turned down a multitude of times because I own my home (actually my father bought it for me) and had to work part time for the last 5 years.
My medication costs me over 1000.00 a month & that is using generics! I did my budget & I will be selling my home this spring to live off that equity. I'm lucky actually, most do not have that choice.
I get angry and resentful knowing that so many that are not citizens here receive such help.

Take care of our own, before we take care of the rest seems to be an alien *s* concept.
Tax the businesses that use illegal workers.
Every hire that is illegal should be heavily fined.

I have NO problem with folks wanting to live here, I don't even have a big issue with folks breaking the law to live here.
I DO have issue with those that use them instead of american workers.
Going after illegals is fruitless *s again*, that will not stop. Going after those that support them is the way to go.

Yeah yeah usual disclaimer IMO stuff.

there darling, I love your spirit, it shines through the computer**

quote:

ORIGINAL: wickednnc

quote:

Services are being swamped in this country by people who offer no contribution to those services except the cheap lettuce and cauliflower on your plate at dinner.

This is often said but never proven.  Schools are paid for by property taxes and unless you live under a bridge or in a dumpster then you pay property tax.  Income and social security taxes are deducted from the workers pay but pocketed by the employer.
 

 
Center for Immigration Services:
 

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

There's a lot more. Be responsible and do some of your own research though rather than asking someone else to do it for you.

quote:



Mexico isn't concerned about its people as much as it is concerned about the money earned here comprises a large portion of its GNP.

Perhaps you might enlighten us as to just how large that portion is.  Keep in mind that California is the 6th largest economy in the world and Mexico is California's biggest customer.

According to figures compiled by Marije van Lidthe de Jeude, a Dutch anthropologist and independent researcher who has worked with the United Nations and other international organizations, Central American remittances have grown "exponentially" since 1990, reaching a point in 2003 when migrant dollars constituted 20 percent of the gross national product (GNP) of El Salvador and 30 percent of the GNP of Nicaragua. For Mexico, the figure is about 2 %.

quote:


We are their relief valve.
We would all be interested in knowing just what this phrase means.  Do you think you might enlighten us with some specifics?

Study the American Revolution and the French Revolution. Systems of government do not change on their own, nor will they ever change when all those who would affect that change are bled off into easier environs.

You seem to mistake my post for debating whether or not they should be allowed to come here and work. I'm not. Our economy has evolved to virtually require their presence. The status quo however is nothing more than an unannounced invasion. Either we control it, or it will eventually control us.

It's not rocket science. Spend some time doing the research instead of arguing points over which you have little to no understanding.