Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are not going to jail even serious sex offenders

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Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are not... - 1/26/2007 6:25:00 PM

seekstofasn8adom

Posts: 252
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: colchester/essex.
Status: offline

I personally think it is a disgrace that it has come to this here in the UK,Especially when they let someone off the hook,for downloading child porn.As opposed to sending this pervert to jail,just because the jails are overcrowed here in England it's an absolute outrage in my opinion.

I just hope and pray that,they don't let serious criminals out early.As to make room for new ones,the criminals will have a field day soon,here in England as they know full well.That they will be able to get away with any crime no matter how serious it is,without having to face the prospect of jail,as all the cells are full.

The British public deserves much better protection from all the nasty people in our society,our countrymen and women derserve better from this very weak goverment,but what does everyone else think about this topic please?Thanks very much to all who reply to this topic good on you.

< Message edited by seekstofasn8adom -- 1/26/2007 6:30:06 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/26/2007 6:29:16 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

You are grossly exaggerating.

After all, room in gaol was found today for the newspaper reporter who tapped the prince's mobile phone. I mean, how much more a danger to the public can one find in the UK? Paedophiles just do not compare, do they?

E

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Post #: 2

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/26/2007 6:37:08 PM

seekstofasn8adom

Posts: 252
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: colchester/essex.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

You are grossly exaggerating.

After all, room in gaol was found today for the newspaper reporter who tapped the prince's mobile phone. I mean, how much more a danger to the public can one find in the UK? Paedophiles just do not compare, do they?

E

Well i still think paedophiles are a threat to society LadyEllen so very sorry but i would have to disagree with you there,hope you are well bye the way LadyEllen.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 3

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/26/2007 6:49:44 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
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From: Stourport-England
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Its an example of my cynical sarcasm seeks!

BTW, it looks like next Tuesday night might be on.

Now that will leave them all wondering

E

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Post #: 4

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/26/2007 7:06:19 PM

seekstofasn8adom

Posts: 252
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: colchester/essex.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Its an example of my cynical sarcasm seeks!

BTW, it looks like next Tuesday night might be on.

Now that will leave them all wondering

E

Thanks LadyEllen that sounds very good btw,i hope and trust your ok.Next tuesday is truly excellent for me i bet they are wondering even more now lol.

< Message edited by seekstofasn8adom -- 1/26/2007 7:07:47 PM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 5

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/27/2007 1:13:41 AM

seeksfemslave

Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
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Just a judge being political I think.
Something they always claim they are too pure to involve themselves in !!!

(in reply to seekstofasn8adom)

Post #: 6

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/27/2007 6:45:13 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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Most people in prison shouldn't be there because they are not a danger to the public, they are on remand for petty offences or they are mentally ill and should be receiving proper mental healthcare.

It has long been known that all prison does is turn petty criminals into hardened criminals but politicians refuse to reform the criminal justice system because initially it will cost money and the popular media and dumb masses will accuse the government of being soft on crime.

Proper reform in the long run will probably save money and have more success in steering petty criminals away from becoming hardened criminals.

I don't hold my breath of anything happening under the Blair government, they have shown time and again they are not up to the job of thinking out of the box and implimenting meaningful reform.

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Post #: 7

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/27/2007 8:15:45 AM

seeksfemslave

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I just wish we could get back to governments that really are hard on crime, thats what I wish.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 8

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/27/2007 7:18:48 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekstofasn8adom

I personally think it is a disgrace that it has come to this here in the UK,Especially when they let someone off the hook,for downloading child porn.As opposed to sending this pervert to jail,just because the jails are overcrowed here in England it's an absolute outrage in my opinion.

I just hope and pray that,they don't let serious criminals out early.As to make room for new ones,the criminals will have a field day soon,here in England as they know full well.That they will be able to get away with any crime no matter how serious it is,without having to face the prospect of jail,as all the cells are full.

The British public deserves much better protection from all the nasty people in our society,our countrymen and women derserve better from this very weak goverment,but what does everyone else think about this topic please?Thanks very much to all who reply to this topic good on you.

Well you guys need to grow a set of balls and learn how to use a baseball bat or learn how to play "moil."
Don't you have any vigilence committees or roving politeness squads in England?

(in reply to seekstofasn8adom)

Post #: 9

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/27/2007 7:47:29 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekstofasn8adom

I personally think it is a disgrace that it has come to this here in the UK,Especially when they let someone off the hook,for downloading child porn.As opposed to sending this pervert to jail,just because the jails are overcrowed here in England it's an absolute outrage in my opinion.

I just hope and pray that,they don't let serious criminals out early.As to make room for new ones,the criminals will have a field day soon,here in England as they know full well.That they will be able to get away with any crime no matter how serious it is,without having to face the prospect of jail,as all the cells are full.

The British public deserves much better protection from all the nasty people in our society,our countrymen and women derserve better from this very weak goverment,but what does everyone else think about this topic please?Thanks very much to all who reply to this topic good on you.

Well you guys need to grow a set of balls and learn how to use a baseball bat or learn how to play "moil."
Don't you have any vigilence committees or roving politeness squads in England?

So turning our society into some Field Of Dreams / The Rookie panacea with a soundtrack by John Mellencamp will end violent crime?

You live in a lovely fantasy world, popeye1250. Please dont bogart that joint.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 10

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/28/2007 2:51:44 AM

sleazy

Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well you guys need to grow a set of balls and learn how to use a baseball bat or learn how to play "moil."
Don't you have any vigilence committees or roving politeness squads in England?

Google for "tony martin" and then suggest that idea!

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Post #: 11

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/28/2007 2:58:13 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well you guys need to grow a set of balls and learn how to use a baseball bat or learn how to play "moil."
Don't you have any vigilence committees or roving politeness squads in England?

It's not a national characteristic. We have people here who will take the law into their own hands. Then we have people who believe a healthy society is underpinned by the rule of law rather than the rule of mob law. It sounds a touch uncivilised to reduce law to roaming around with baseball bats - i.e. hunter-gatherer uncivilised.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Post #: 12

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/28/2007 3:03:16 AM

sleazy

Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

But which is more civilised, applying the rule of law to burglars, car thieves, and the other various forms of criminal, or allowing them to carry on their "trade" with relative immunity?

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Post #: 13

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/28/2007 3:58:31 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

Neither.

The rule of law is civilised. If the rule of law is falling short then we have a practical problem. The answer is to resolve the problem of prisons full to the brim and the resulting lack of punishment for crimes committed (as opposed to allowing lawless vigilantes to roam the streets - this would simply be adding fuel to the fire). The answer is to look at society and understand why our prison population has gone through the roof and is unmanageable. What are we doing that is creating such a high level of serious and petty crime? - the answer is always in the root of the issue and never in a reactionary measure of mob retribution.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to sleazy)

Post #: 14

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/28/2007 4:32:27 AM

seeksfemslave

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Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline

Dont support mob rule but the plain fact is that since the late 60's a method of dealing with social problems has been conceived implemented and totally FAILED. in that it has produced worse conditions than existed before.
This is NOT an opinion it is an observable, documented fact.

That method is PC Liberalism which some posters claim means nothing to them.

Believe it or not I have no objection to it having been tried, what I object to is the trendy types willfully refusing to face up to its abject failure and by implication their own naivety. Thats what I cant stand.

The application of the rule of Law may or may not be civilised, those honest respectable but poor people who actually have to suffer the consequences of PC Liberalism would leave their inner city "pits" like a shot, finances permitting !

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 15

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/28/2007 7:56:20 AM

meatcleaver

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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

That method is PC Liberalism which some posters claim means nothing to them.

In someways I agree with you that liberalism is part of the issue as is conservatism. Compared to other European countries I have lived in, there is a sense of lack of ownership of the country and a lack of belonging in Britain. Growing up in Britain I never had the sense that I was part owner of the country or that Britain is a country to be proud of nor was being British. All the liberal left wing denigration of the country and its past without any replacement of values or an alternative vision just sort of left my generation adrift. However, in other European countries one sense the citizens have a sense of ownership, that they are responsible for their country and they should police it. Ironically I found this particularly strong in Germany. Most of the Germans I met of my generation and younger give you the impression that no one else is ever again going to hi-jack their country. Yes, there is crime and it is far from perfect but that sense of shared ownership and citizenship is vital and it is lacking from my experience in Britain. I genuinely believe Labour and the left have a lot to answer for, they have destroyed the perception of Britain as a worthwhile country and had nothing to offer as a replacement.

However, the right is far too conservative and wanting to use laws to keep people in their place (ironically New Labour does this) as though you can legislate for a lack of virtue. Britain has also more criminal laws than most European countries and it keeps adding to them with no reflection on why they aren't working. British politicians never ask why Britain has more criminals than other European countries. I have heard politicians say drugs are responsible for two thirds of all crimes but never ask why there is more drug use in Britain than other European countries and far more than Holland which is so much more liberal. I go back to the beginning. Alienation, no sense of belonging, nothing to look forward to, no sense that you count as a citizen. Left and right are just as bad.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 1/28/2007 7:58:52 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Post #: 16

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/28/2007 9:07:25 AM

sleazy

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Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
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Damn, what is wrong with me, in many respects I agree with both MC & NG

Although I am sure I agreed with Ladyellen on a similar thread elsewhere that the problem lies much deeper within society than just full prisons.

quote:

Me from http://www.collarchat.com/m_791074/tm.htm

The problem is much bigger to me than simply crime and punishment, but society as a whole seems to need some serious attention, education, respect for self and others, the me me me something for nothing culture, all need serious work as a part of the issue.

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Post #: 17

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/28/2007 12:51:33 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well you guys need to grow a set of balls and learn how to use a baseball bat or learn how to play "moil."
Don't you have any vigilence committees or roving politeness squads in England?

It's not a national characteristic. We have people here who will take the law into their own hands. Then we have people who believe a healthy society is underpinned by the rule of law rather than the rule of mob law. It sounds a touch uncivilised to reduce law to roaming around with baseball bats - i.e. hunter-gatherer uncivilised.

Gent, who said anything about "mobs?"
Three or four guys could get a lot of work done.
You do have the right to defend yourself in G.B. correct?
In the U.S. "the government" is "The People" and "The People" are "the government." There isn't a seperation between the two.
A few years ago in Greenville, S.C. the state where I now live they were having some drug problems.
Some high school footballers got together and started engaging in what they called "Rehabing", they'd go up to someone who looked like a drug dealer and ask him for drugs.
When the person produced the drugs, "BAM" they'd kick the living shit out of him! lol The drug dealers started moving out of certain neighborhoods and you couldn't find any drugs!
They did a better job than the Police!
They were eventually caught by the Police but nothing's happened to them in two years.
I think they were just told to knock it off.
I'd like to see the Attorney General try to prosecute them.
"NOT GUILTY!"
I think they realised that that would probably happen and declined to prosecute.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 18

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/28/2007 1:26:26 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

Sorry Popeye - it doesnt work that way here.

If one is physically attacked, then one is entitled to defend oneself only with equal force and only with the aim of immediate self defence. Anything above that - using overpowering weaponry or force or actually attacking the aggressor onesself, will put the defender in court on a charge of assault. This applies even if one catches a burglar in one's house, standing at the end of one's bed about to smash one's head in with a baseball bat; one is entitled only to use equal force sufficient for defence. The law is disinterested in the main as to what was available for defence (ie, if you only had a gun and shot him, you'd be in trouble) and disinterested in how much fear you felt and so judged what was necessary for your defence (ie if you kicked the shit out of him). Google "Tony Martin" as Sleazy suggested, to see what our laws are like.

The instance you mention with the footballers vs the drug dealers would result in serious charges of assault being laid against the footballers, as well as conspiracy to commit etc with a gaol sentence more than likely since the jury would be directed to find the accused guilty, and in the UK we have a system of set minimum sentences for each offence.

I disagree with mob law Popeye, though I would certainly agree that our system has some very odd priorites from time to time, which is a contributory factor in what leads to so little respect for the penal system here, where the worst criminals often receive far more compassion and support than their victims. For example, state paid social workers are called in to help the criminal, but victim support is a charity organisation.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 19

RE: Overcrowded prisons in the uk serious offenders are... - 1/28/2007 2:32:09 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Wow Lady, the laws there are screwed up bigtime!
I don't believe in mobs either, they make too much noise and they're very conspicuous.
Lady, if that example of a burgler at the foot of your bed happened and you killed the guy would you even make out a police report knowing that *you* could go to jail for killing a burgler?
All you were doing was sleeping innocently in your own bed!
I wouldn't! I'd be off to the store for some heavy duty trashbags!
Boy, I'm glad I live in the U.S. of A.!!!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 1/28/2007 2:39:18 PM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 20

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