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Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 10:54:20 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Missturbation's thread about women being born to serve brought this up in my mind, and I thought I would explore it here. It is the concept that submissives serve and dominants do not.

I find this an erroneous assumption. Every dominant that I have seriously considered was service oriented. They volunteered their time, they gave money to charity, or offered to help friends. This is being of service to your fellow human beings. In fact, I see dominance as being of service to me as a submissive, and my Dom does not just take from me and give nothing back.

I wonder if others view it this way. How do others see dominance, is it a license to take the service of other human beings without giving anything back? Do other dominants see themselves as giving service to others? Does this make you less or more "domly"? Do other submissives find the service your dominant gives in the world to be "domly?

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 11:01:17 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Great topic, julia. I agree with you, dominants serve others. I use that exact term at work all time, we are there to serve the citizens of our county and precinct, and it gives me joy to be able to do so. And you make a good point about dominants "serving" their submissives-- though I know some will cringe at such a statement.
 
I suppose there are dominants that absolutely serve no one, but I wonder at the quality of human being that they would be.

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 11:03:37 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		 
quote:

I suppose there are dominants that absolutely serve no one, but I wonder at the quality of human being that they would be
 
Not one I would be interested in, the sound of that is almost scary...smiles

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 11:04:33 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I don't feel that submissive and servant are interchangeable nouns. I'm not service oriented and I know I'm not the only one.

As far as him, he's been active in volunteer organizations. He aslo has no problem in taking care of me. After my last eye surgery he insisted on me staying in bed and he came in every two hours to put the drops in my eye. I felt capable of going to the bathroom to do so myself with the aid of the mirror.

If he gets to the bathroom first, then he makes tea for both of us. If I get it first then I go to the kitchen while he's in the bath. It isn't a matter of subliness, just efficiency. Doesn't bother him to take care of me. He enjoys knowing I'm happier as a direct result of his actions, as do I for him.

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 11:07:17 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		there are many ways one can serve. my Master serves others in the world, however he does not serve as i serve. He serves always from a position of power and control, even if he is helping others.
for instance, we could both be volunteers at a soup kitchen. my service there would always be submissive...maybe dishing out the food to individual people, keeping the place neat and tidy, etc. His service there would always be Dominant...organizing, delegating, etc.

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 11:08:59 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		I have the Servant archetype in my twelve archetypes (as talked about by Myss). One of the Masters I consider my gurus, so to speak, does a talk about Servant Master...and I have branded on my left forearm. It's an honor to serve your friends, no matter your, or thier, station in life.

Master Fire


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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 11:09:04 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I know full well it is a give and take with Angel and I. The type of service might be different, but he is getting something from me as much as I am from him. We both serve elsewhere, donating time and money to charities when we can. I enjoy helping others, and do so regularly especially being in retail and customer service. The idea that for some reason simply having a dominant personality and being in that role should imply that service isnt necessary, or even proper, just doesnt work for me.
DV

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 11:11:26 AM   
KarbonCopy


Posts: 779
Status: offline 		You kow we're all still people. And usually good people.

Why do we have to seperate ourselves as if we're something else? I mean just cause we're in the lifestyle doesnt mean that we still dont interract with society.
Of course we all help people. Its in our nature, we help our brothers and sisters when they need help.

Not to say everyone, but we're all still serving someone in the long run.

We're just people. I eat and breath just like everyone else. And I put my bondage on, one peice at a time ;)


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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 11:12:22 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		In nature when creatures appear to give for no apparent return, this behaviour is appears to show dominance. When such giving is refused and a creature appears to be spiting itself, this behaviour usually is associated with vying for or wanting dominance. There are psychologists that suggest human charity is a sign of dominance.

I've read this somewhere and I'm busily trying to think where, which is why I haven't posted a link.

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 11:34:21 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

In nature when creatures appear to give for no apparent return, this behaviour is appears to show dominance. When such giving is refused and a creature appears to be spiting itself, this behaviour usually is associated with vying for or wanting dominance. There are psychologists that suggest human charity is a sign of dominance.

I've read this somewhere and I'm busily trying to think where, which is why I haven't posted a link.


That is very interesting and I hope you remember as I would want to learn about it.

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 11:41:13 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

In nature when creatures appear to give for no apparent return, this behaviour is appears to show dominance. When such giving is refused and a creature appears to be spiting itself, this behaviour usually is associated with vying for or wanting dominance. There are psychologists that suggest human charity is a sign of dominance.

I've read this somewhere and I'm busily trying to think where, which is why I haven't posted a link.


This makes sense to me and is consistant with what I know about American history.  The upper-middle class of professionals in the United States have relied on a service ethos to justify their power and influence.  In my mind, there's no contradiction between serving and dominating either interpersonally or socially/ culturally. 

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 12:17:06 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		Personaly, I don't and won't associate volunteerism with dominance. It's just a sign of someone that wants to give more to others then they take. That's all. Plenty of submissives volunteer as well.


< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 1/7/2007 12:18:49 PM >

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 12:22:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Saying the quality of the person depends on whether or not they volunteer their time says a lot about the quality of the person making that statement.



I listed many ways to be of service to others, volunteering was just one of them. Ever help a friend move? Drive someone to the airport? Visit a sick friend and bring them food? All these things are services we give to others, and yes I associate the ability to give of oneself as intrinsic to the quality of the person I am associating with. Giving of self=quality to me.

Lets put it this way, would you want to be with an ungiving person? I do not think anyone would

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 12:31:32 PM   
MrDiscipline44


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quote:



I listed many ways to be of service to others, volunteering was just one of them. Ever help a friend move? Drive someone to the airport? Visit a sick friend and bring them food? All these things are services we give to others, and yes I associate the ability to give of oneself as intrinsic to the quality of the person I am associating with. Giving of self=quality to me.

Lets put it this way, would you want to be with an ungiving person? I do not think anyone would

Well, #1, all the things you listed were ways of volunteering yourself, hense wanting to do them is volunteerism. #2, it's interesting how you sit in judgement of others based on one aspect of them and not the whole person. #3, plenty of people want to be with someone that is ungiving. Just because you can't see that for yourself doesn't mean it no one would.

< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 1/7/2007 12:32:43 PM >

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 12:38:42 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		What I do know, is that the best bosses are those who do make the coffee occasionally, and dont consider themselves personally superior to those who work for them, but rather simply occupying the top spot as part of a team in which whilst they have the ultimate power and responsibility, they are as much serving the needs of their employees as their employees are following their directions.

Whether that follows through in personal relationships or not for most people I dont know, but it does for me. I guess I see my position as that of a parent, in and out of work; I expect the final say, I give directions I expect to be followed, I give out discipline where its needed and so on - but like a parent, its my job to help, guide, provide and even serve too. The second role doesnt contradict the first, it complements it, though to be fair it only really works out in any relationship I have in which the other person accepts me in that way. I dont recall the psychological framework which works on that basis - where people take the role of parent or child in any encounter, but its kind of like that, but with me expecting the parent role everytime!

E


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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 12:42:34 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Every man I have been attached to has been a giving sort of individual.  For "me" someone who is solely in life to take, is too much like a child.  I would not be with someone who did the three year old "ME ME ME", sort of behavior.  I never stood it in my children, I would not handle it with any less distain in an adult.
Some people do enjoy those sort of relationships, but that is where choosing wisely comes into play.
A dominant man would be dominant to me, if I saw him as such.
Kyst

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 12:43:42 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

quote:



I listed many ways to be of service to others, volunteering was just one of them. Ever help a friend move? Drive someone to the airport? Visit a sick friend and bring them food? All these things are services we give to others, and yes I associate the ability to give of oneself as intrinsic to the quality of the person I am associating with. Giving of self=quality to me.

Lets put it this way, would you want to be with an ungiving person? I do not think anyone would

Well, #1, all the things you listed were ways of volunteering yourself, hense wanting to do them is volunteerism. #2, it's interesting how you sit in judgement of others based on one aspect of them and not the whole person. #3, plenty of people want to be with someone that is ungiving. Just because you can't see that for yourself doesn't mean it no one would.


Well, you did not answer my question, do YOU want to be with an ungiving person? I wonder if we had a poll nationwide how many "plenty" would be? I am sure there would be a few that desire an ungiving person, if they are happy, that is their kink.... Go Them! I am not judging that.

FOR ME   I do desire the quality of givingness. I never stated that all people should  be giving or not, I only stated an opinion that I value givingness, I am allowed to think people that are giving are quality people, just as you are allowed the opposite view, isn't America grand?

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/7/2007 12:44:21 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 12:48:43 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I see Tops as being more service-oriented than Doms.  In my experience, the Tops that I've had relationships with were more eager to do things of service for me.  The Doms were more interested in the type of service I could provide them.  The Tops were also employed in service-related fields (counseling, education), that may have something to do with their personality and enjoyment in providing me things that they knew I enjoyed.  I'm not saying the Doms were ungiving of themselves, but there was a distinct difference in what I could expect.

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 12:52:57 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		My Daddy just tells me if he feels like doing things for me I will sit down and accept it and keep my mouth shut and not give him any shit. If he does not feel like it he wouldn't. It is all about what he feels like doing. He wants to cook dinner for me, who am I to argue? Although he may be doing it for survival reasons

On edit, recently I was told to sit down and put ice on my knee, and I had to watch him put things away, pick up the kitchen, damn that was frustrating.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/7/2007 12:53:50 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 12:58:55 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

there are many ways one can serve. my Master serves others in the world, however he does not serve as i serve. He serves always from a position of power and control, even if he is helping others.
for instance, we could both be volunteers at a soup kitchen. my service there would always be submissive...maybe dishing out the food to individual people, keeping the place neat and tidy, etc. His service there would always be Dominant...organizing, delegating, etc.


I relate to this in what you said about your Master.  My Master volunteers with some youth sports groups - but as coach, or as training others to become coaches.  In most of the ways he gives, it is from a position of decision making, organizing, or guiding/coaching. 

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