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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 1:02:55 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Good for him...he's taking care of you.  I love hearing stuff like this. 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 5:00:00 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I pray that one day people will stop equating service with submission and submission with service.

I doubt it will happen anytime soon though.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 6:23:47 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I think they serve people - even their submissives, of course. What about good advice they may offer, or acting as a "sounding board", or just being a font of information on many topics in general - bdsm oriented or not (especially very smart Dominants). I think this qualifies as "service", to a degree. It certainly qualifies as filling a need for someone else, most likely (that's my educated guess). I think it's a matter of how people want to define the word service.

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 1/7/2007 6:24:46 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 6:30:48 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

Personaly, I don't and won't associate volunteerism with dominance. It's just a sign of someone that wants to give more to others then they take. That's all. Plenty of submissives volunteer as well.

I get the impression that you view volunteerism, or "servicing" your community or friends etc as a threat to your idea of Dominance?Do you only equate service to submission ?And what if that someone who is volunteering is a Dominant...would that make him less Dominant in your eyes?...Tempting

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 6:36:13 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, I don't equate volunteerism as part of D/s at all. It's just doing something nice because you like to or want to. Not because it is your place in the lifestyle to do so.

< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 1/7/2007 6:37:07 PM >

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 6:52:41 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
I posted on this issue once somewhere about my idea that Sir Lancelot of King Arthur's court was a Dominant in every sense of the word.

I was shouted down by people saying that he was a sub to Guinevere who was cuckolding Arthur, but it did not dissuade me from my opinion.

Lancelot came to King Arthur's court from a bad background.  At the court, he was given a set of ideals (Chivalry) which he was told were something that strong and true people honestly believed.

He would ride here and there.  Do good deeds.  Protect those weaker than him.  Was always respectful to other people, including his enemies.  Was always respectful, kind, and helpful to women and children.

While many of these things could be considered submissive traits.  The point I took away from it was that he (Lancelot) chose to devote his life to an ideal.  He then did what he had to do to make this ideal a reality, no matter how far fetched or unattainable it is.  While he was submissive, in a sense, what he was submissive to was his own personal ideal.  What makes him a Dominant in my mind is the fact that he made a choice of how to live his life, and he dominated his reality in order to impinge his choice on the world around him.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 7:04:18 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I pray that one day people will stop equating service with submission and submission with service.

I doubt it will happen anytime soon though.


How do you mean?  Since I serve my Master and all...I'm curious.  Do you mean service oriented people in general being lumped in with submissive types?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 7:28:23 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		My Daddy serves the community in His career.  He has a powerful job, very much in control.  He has a large heart and is quick to help when He can, in whatever capacity.  With me, He can be very nurturing and kind, and if He likes, He will do things for me.  Some of the things He has done for me are big, like taking a week off work to help me move last summer, to something small yet sweet, like helping me straighten my hair one night when we were getting ready to go out and I couldn't reach the very back.  He laughed and said He couldn't guarantee the results, but it was cute to see Him try to work the flat iron.   

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 7:30:25 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I pray that one day people will stop equating service with submission and submission with service.

I doubt it will happen anytime soon though.


How do you mean?  Since I serve my Master and all...I'm curious.  Do you mean service oriented people in general being lumped in with submissive types?


I am not going to answer for LA obviously. I will say I agree that service is not a dominant or submissive trait.

People who serve in the military are serving us all, even the ones that are officers and make the decisions

Politicians are supposed to be public servants

Police serve and protect.

A waitress serves customers

People work in a service economy.

I think the misconception is that even though you serve a master, that he is not serving you too. Being of service does not make one servile. Not all submissives are servile either. I love serving my Daddy, I am service oriented in my life too. I do not think of myself as servile though. I do not think that it is necessarily a "submissive" trait to be so. It can be a trait within a Ds dynamic that two people value and feel fulfilled by, but in my mind it is not a prerequisite to power exchange.

Basically what makes me submissive is the desire to give someone power over me in my life, to whatever degree we decide this is so. My willingness and consent to do this define me as the submissive person in my dynamic, not serving him coffee or cleaning his house (although I do this with pride when he desires and hold my head high whilst I do this too). He does not associate these things with what he needs from me all the time, it is his decision what he wants from me because he is the one with the power.

Perhaps he desires me to sit on my ass and do nothing, not serve him, be lazy... well that is his decision as my Dom, not mine. 



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 7:31:55 PM   
Ferric58


Posts: 3
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		I for one, have always seen Dominance and submission as a symbiotic relationship, not a parasitic one. neither the Dom nor the sub should be more or less "service oriented" with respect to each other. a Dom's place is to nurture, guide, and protect their sub. a sub's place is to care for, follow, and support their Dom. the only real difference I see is who is in the lead and who follows. the rest is just fun and games.

fun... 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 7:39:38 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I am not going to answer for LA obviously. I will say I agree that service is not a dominant or submissive trait.

People who serve in the military are serving us all, even the ones that are officers and make the decisions

Politicians are supposed to be public servants

Police serve and protect.

A waitress serves customers

People work in a service economy.

Yes, this speaks to my question of people lumping generic service with submissiveness.  I can see this now...thanks :)

quote:


I think the misconception is that even though you serve a master, that he is not serving you too.

My Master does not serve me.  Not directly, anyway.  I benefit from the relationship, but he has lead me to a place where I can best serve him.  His entire focus was to have the best slave he could have, and I could not be my best for him if I were still hung up about things.  So he helped bring me to a better place.  And while he enjoys that my life is better and that I am a happy camper, his motivation was on the self serving side.

quote:


Basically what makes me submissive is the desire to give someone power over me in my life, to whatever degree we decide this is so. My willingness and consent to do this define me as the submissive person in my dynamic, not serving him coffee or cleaning his house (although I do this with pride when he desires and hold my head high whilst I do this too). He does not associate these things with what he needs from me all the time, it is his decision what he wants from me because he is the one with the power.

Perhaps he desires me to sit on my ass and do nothing, not serve him, be lazy... well that is his decision as my Dom, not mine. 

I think we define "serving" differently.  I serve my Master in everything I do.  Many see "serve" and think domestic tasks.  I serve him my body, my mind, my spirit.  All that I do is for him, in service to him.  Maybe it's a matter of semantics here. Submission to my Master comes from my inner self.  Service to my Master is a way in which that submission is exercised.  I do see that one can serve without being submissive at all.

You're lucky though, I've never (and I mean never) been ordered to be lazy.  I'm jealous!

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 7:46:13 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear juliaoceania, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I can only speak for myself.  I have given of myself in many ways, in serving the community and helping others.  I also help and serve creatures as well, who often have no advocate and or representative.
 
Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs
 
 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 7:51:23 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I totally agree that many Dominants serve other people.  I have a profession in which that is what
I do most of the day, so it is nice to be on the other end. 

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 7:52:25 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

And while he enjoys that my life is better and that I am a happy camper, his motivation was on the self serving side.


I see my motivation for service as self serving also. I serve people because it makes me feel good. It pleases me that my Daddy is pleased. If I were not pleased, I would not do it. So all my service is somewhat self serving. I could not give the type of service you speak of because there are too many other things that are just as important to me as my Daddy, like my unmentionable and my education, and giving to my talents in a way that I feel is of service to many people. He feels that my education will serve him as my Dom... so win win. Not all service is mutually exclusive, some things he does serves us both, some things I do serve us both, some things we both do serve only one of us and not the other.

I do not see submission as martyrdom, I see it as something that is mutually beneficial.


< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/7/2007 7:53:47 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 7:57:28 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not see submission as martyrdom, I see it as something that is mutually beneficial.



OK.  I do not see it as martyrdom, either.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 8:03:34 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not see submission as martyrdom, I see it as something that is mutually beneficial.



OK.  I do not see it as martyrdom, either.


I sincerely did not mean to insinuate that you did, I was just stating my views on my own submission is all

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 8:06:20 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ferric58

I for one, have always seen Dominance and submission as a symbiotic relationship, not a parasitic one. neither the Dom nor the sub should be more or less "service oriented" with respect to each other. a Dom's place is to nurture, guide, and protect their sub. a sub's place is to care for, follow, and support their Dom. the only real difference I see is who is in the lead and who follows. the rest is just fun and games.

fun... 


I agree with most of this.

But in one of my jobs I am always in a deferential position to the lead female instructor.

The reason for this has to do with women's psychology and socialization which tends to cause them to defer to whatever blowhard XY chromosome is pontificating at that moment.  Not saying that is right, just saying how I see it.  So in my job as both a hideous scumbag and nice self defense instructor, I never tell a woman what she should do, should feel, or whatever.  Not my place.

I dont think this is a problem for my general Dominant nature since the goal (what I am trying to accomplish) will not be realized unless I do X and Y and Z.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Ferric58)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 8:19:09 PM   
Rayne58


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My Daddy just tells me if he feels like doing things for me I will sit down and accept it and keep my mouth shut and not give him any shit. If he does not feel like it he wouldn't. It is all about what he feels like doing. He wants to cook dinner for me, who am I to argue? Although he may be doing it for survival reasons

On edit, recently I was told to sit down and put ice on my knee, and I had to watch him put things away, pick up the kitchen, damn that was frustrating.


I broke my toe last year and I still insisted on getting up and doing stuff for Him, until He had to order me to sit down and put my foot up! Oh the frustration.....but to make myself feel better I told myself I was only doing it so that I could get better quicker so I could get back to serving......

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 8:31:11 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rayne58

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My Daddy just tells me if he feels like doing things for me I will sit down and accept it and keep my mouth shut and not give him any shit. If he does not feel like it he wouldn't. It is all about what he feels like doing. He wants to cook dinner for me, who am I to argue? Although he may be doing it for survival reasons

On edit, recently I was told to sit down and put ice on my knee, and I had to watch him put things away, pick up the kitchen, damn that was frustrating.


I broke my toe last year and I still insisted on getting up and doing stuff for Him, until He had to order me to sit down and put my foot up! Oh the frustration.....but to make myself feel better I told myself I was only doing it so that I could get better quicker so I could get back to serving......


Hello A/all,

I would have simply pointed out to you that sitting on your keister and letting your toe heel was what I wanted you to do.

It is a Dominant / submissive thing.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Rayne58)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 8:34:36 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I sincerely did not mean to insinuate that you did, I was just stating my views on my own submission is all


Thank you for clarifying.  I wasn't sure.  I do benefit greatly from serving my Master.  I often think I benefit much better than he does.  Master feels the same about my education, that's why he sent me back to school. He felt that way about my self discovery, which is why he sent me to New York for a week with a list of everything I was to do while there.  Every time I turn around, I seem to have the long straw.  But as much as I am benefiting, it's all for the greater good of serving him, in my book.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 40
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