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RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 9:27:01 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I have always seen anyone who is deeply into flogging as being deeply into service.  Watching someone work up a serious sweat using a talent earned by long practice to provide sensation to someone doing nothing but standing there always smacked deeply of service to me.

To this day I have never owned a flogger.

As for the sort of "help" service, groups run by Dominants are using cults of personality and suck, groups run by submissives generally have far less drama and run much better.  I always get looks when I pitch in to help at a BDSM party because many doms think helping is beneath them, quite sad really. 

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 9:32:28 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I have always seen anyone who is deeply into flogging as being deeply into service.  Watching someone work up a serious sweat using a talent earned by long practice to provide sensation to someone doing nothing but standing there always smacked deeply of service to me.


But............the question is....is the Dom really doing this for the gratification of the sub/bottom?  Or is he getting something out of it, even more than the person he is flogging?  Perhaps it is meditative for him, perhaps it is therapeutic.  Perhaps he doesn't give a damn about the ass (or its owner) he is flogging?   I guess it depends on how you look at it. 

Nice to see you posting again, btw.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 10:01:22 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Okay, try running an ad charging for allowing people the "meditative" or "theraputic" value of giving you a massage and see how many responses you get...

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/7/2007 10:45:38 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I see your signature line (which it seems you have removed) is quite accurate.

My Master flogs me for his enjoyment, not mine.  And yes, I really do find wonderfully meditative and therapeutic value from massaging him.  To each their own, I suppose. 

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 1:06:43 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Sinergy: A question. I read your comment, took it seriously (truly) and now wonder if you think Don Quixote would qualify as a Dominant - ?

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 1:47:01 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Reading through the thread gave me more than one view to consider. SimplyMichael had me pondering whether flogging is service. KatyLied had an interesting idea that Tops are service oriented while Doms are not. Keeping that in mind, I’ll carefully answer.

I don’t necessarily do service type work formally, but I do seem to relate well to most I deal with personally and in the work environment. I relate, understand and find friendship with the lowest janitorial type employee to the MegaChief.

I use my consciousness to help the good folks no matter the class. I’m not sure this is service, but if someone has a personal problem, I’ll listen, no matter who he or she is, and help in any way I can. So in my view, Doms often have a greater awareness of people and they often use that gift in utilitarian ways, even if not formal service oriented tasks.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 2:09:49 AM   
DutchVince


Posts: 5
Joined: 8/31/2006
Status: offline 		Hi julia, I think you have the correct view. In my opinion the one that is incontrol in a D/s relationship is the submissive. he/she sets the boundaries and the dominant is the serve the submissive. in fact the dominant needs to make sure that the boundaries are respected. Therefore the dom serves the submissive.

it is very similar to the fact ( in 'normal' relationships) that men thinks they are incontrol in a relationship where in fact the women is controlling the relationship.


greetings from the Netherlands
Vince

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 8:57:38 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Hi julia, I think you have the correct view. In my opinion the one that is incontrol in a D/s relationship is the submissive. he/she sets the boundaries and the dominant is the serve the submissive. in fact the dominant needs to make sure that the boundaries are respected. Therefore the dom serves the submissive


Oh, but that is not really my view. There are many ways that I put up boundaries to start with that do not exist anymore, he will not tolerate them. I mean little things, like the way I phrase a sentence. I do not agree with that at all. I think we serve each other, he decides how I serve him, and he decides how he will serve me... it is on his terms and not my own. I think that is the real divider for me in my relationship that makes it Ds, he decides. Like he says, it is his world, I am just a part of it...smiles

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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(in reply to DutchVince)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 9:03:38 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Okay, try running an ad charging for allowing people the "meditative" or "theraputic" value of giving you a massage and see how many responses you get...


Hmmm, a dominant that enjoys getting responses from sensation may well respond to that ad.

As far as flogging being a service, there are many dominants that do not intrinsically care if the submissive enjoys it or not, just whether she consented to stand still for them.

I am only beaten (with any implement) when I am good and being rewarded. So maybe it is a service to me, I will have to ask him. It is something he will not do unless he is in the mood, that part I know for a fact.

Nice to see you back under your new name.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 10:29:24 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear juliaoceania, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In a Dominant capacity, there will be a time when their submissive and or slave becomes unable to perform their submissive duties or service their Dominants.
 
As a Dominant, I have done things for myself where my slave would normally have done so if able.  However, we (in general terms) must understand that Dominants don't loose their authority, when giving care and nursing their slaves back to health.  It needs to be done.  So, this is 'service' when we administer what medicines and or medical care to our slaves when they're unable.  When returning to health, the slave can resume their functions.  I really do not see it as a threat to my status as Dominant.  But, if a Dominant indeed loves and cherishes their slave, they will serve that slave in the capacity needed until death and or release splits that connection, with the duties and responsibilities associated with it.
 
Like so many other things, people on the outside can make a 'spin' of words and terms to either elevate someone serving as a Dominant and or to devalue someone.  What is indeed important is for those within that relationship on a private footing to know the truth and intent of it all.
 
Each person has their talents.  Dominant and or submissive alike.  When there is a deadline, at times it just needs to be neutral when it comes to the person's role, e.g. Dominant or submissive; to get the job done and done correctly.  The same applies to groups, parties and life itself.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 10:48:13 AM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		 
I provide a service for the Community I live in by
being a volunteer.
I have a friend that doesnt drive so I either pick up stuff or take them with Me
when I go shopping.

Just by being here to do sessions serves a purpose to the submissives that wish to serve. Its all about the Ying and Yang.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 2:00:03 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Missturbation's thread about women being born to serve brought this up in my mind, and I thought I would explore it here. It is the concept that submissives serve and dominants do not.

I find this an erroneous assumption. Every dominant that I have seriously considered was service oriented. They volunteered their time, they gave money to charity, or offered to help friends. This is being of service to your fellow human beings. In fact, I see dominance as being of service to me as a submissive, and my Dom does not just take from me and give nothing back.

I wonder if others view it this way. How do others see dominance, is it a license to take the service of other human beings without giving anything back? Do other dominants see themselves as giving service to others? Does this make you less or more "domly"? Do other submissives find the service your dominant gives in the world to be "domly?


The examples you gave to me are just examples of well rounded people who believe strongly in giving back to their community (whether their community is their neighborhood or the world).  I don’t see that as being service oriented, I would consider someone like Mother Teresa to be service oriented to the world.  Someone that donates some money every year and a few hours at the soup kitchen is someone who thinks a little bit beyond themselves, but that’s about the extent of it.

But none of that (service to the community or world) has to do with dominance to me.  In terms of within my relationship my owner does not provide service to me, he does certain things because he enjoys them or its an overt exertion of control.

C~



_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 2:19:08 PM   
BDSM05478


Posts: 417
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I wonder if others view it this way. How do others see dominance, is it a license to take the service of other human beings without giving anything back? Do other dominants see themselves as giving service to others? Does this make you less or more "domly"? Do other submissives find the service your dominant gives in the world to be "domly?


I do not think this is a matter that can be broken down to Dom or sub issues. ALL people should give something back to their community if time allows. If they can't give their time than they could give money or dry goods to food shelfs. My Husband may make me a pot of coffee in the morning, which he doesn't drink, might even wake me up with a cup the way I take it but I take it as a treat. If he served me like I serve him, I would more than likely take advantage of him and treat him like a punk..... Civic duty and community service are to be expected by all parties regardless of roles.

_____________________________

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart" U.E. McGill

"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 2:53:08 PM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		The examples I gave also pertain to giving something back to the community/mankind.

I can offer these examples of when a submissive comes here for the first time I get them a drink(non alcoholic) show them around and ask if they need anything.
Some are quite nervous and it helps to let them see I'm only human.
I think a few people would say that takes away from the Domly-ness.I dont see it that way
I see it as helping them become comfortable.

My No strings housekeeper gets the benefit of Me bringing her coffee.
I dont think it takes away from My Domly-ness.I appreciate that she does a good job and bringing coffee is a way of saying thank you.

My sissyhanna was just saying if not for My teachings she wouldnt have the love
of watersports that she does.
I would say I provided a service to her...I tutored her in Pee Play...lol



_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to BDSM05478)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 8:15:24 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Sinergy: A question. I read your comment, took it seriously (truly) and now wonder if you think Don Quixote would qualify as a Dominant - ?

- Susan


It has been almost 30 years since I read that book.  But from what I remember of them, Don Quixote and Sancho Panza set out to fulfill his own personal ideals of chivalry.  The book made the point that his ideals were completely out of place in the society he lived in.  This did not actually stop him from trying to fulfill them, however.

To answer your question, I would say yes, I would consider him a Dominant individual.

I suspect he might have trouble attracting a submissive, although perhaps that is where Sancho Panza fit in to the equation.

Sinergy

edited because Don Quixote is one (1) book.

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 1/8/2007 8:16:27 PM >

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 9:07:30 PM   
ChainedExistence


Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

"I have always seen anyone who is deeply into flogging as being deeply into service.  Watching someone work up a serious sweat using a talent earned by long practice to provide sensation to someone doing nothing but standing there always smacked deeply of service to me."

" Doing nothing but standing there" ?????You HAVE to be Kidding!! That's proof that what someone sees might have nothing to do with what is actually happening. People talk all the time about observing scenes that disturb them, but then later find out that the participants were absolutely fine with what was happening. Same goes for watching a flogging. You might have been bored out of your mind, and made an assumption about flogging that does not align with the actual reality of what was happening. You can't always observe everything that's going on, because some things are in the mind, some things are out of your range of view, and some things involve a dynamic that is about more than that one moment in time. Every time I've ever been flogged, there are a million things going on at once...the internal struggles to remain obediently still despite moments where all I want to do is run screaming from the room,  the way he is playful and loving at times, or brutal at others, the pleasure he gets from holding me on an edge instead of letting me float off to some happy space, I could give you a list a mile long, and not finish telling you what it's like...Maybe it's not for you, but don't assume that you have the complete picture of what it is like for anyone else.

< Message edited by ChainedExistence -- 1/8/2007 9:10:36 PM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/8/2007 10:39:18 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		Frank Herbert said it best in his motto of the Bene Gesserit from his Dune novels:  "We exist only to serve"

Within the Dune universe, the Bene Gesserit were unquestionably users and takers of power.  The Reverend Mothers were undeniably dominant and dominating figures.  However, they expressed their power in performing service to and for others.

The dominant is one who wields power, who alters the paths and lives of others.  Whether he or she wields this power "in service" of others or not is immaterial...what matters is the choice to wield power.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Missturbation's thread about women being born to serve brought this up in my mind, and I thought I would explore it here. It is the concept that submissives serve and dominants do not.

I find this an erroneous assumption. Every dominant that I have seriously considered was service oriented. They volunteered their time, they gave money to charity, or offered to help friends. This is being of service to your fellow human beings. In fact, I see dominance as being of service to me as a submissive, and my Dom does not just take from me and give nothing back.

I wonder if others view it this way. How do others see dominance, is it a license to take the service of other human beings without giving anything back? Do other dominants see themselves as giving service to others? Does this make you less or more "domly"? Do other submissives find the service your dominant gives in the world to be "domly?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/9/2007 4:47:04 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		And I thought you were having fun. :)

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to ChainedExistence)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Dominants Serve People Too - 1/9/2007 6:36:38 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ferric58

I for one, have always seen Dominance and submission as a symbiotic relationship, not a parasitic one. neither the Dom nor the sub should be more or less "service oriented" with respect to each other. a Dom's place is to nurture, guide, and protect their sub. a sub's place is to care for, follow, and support their Dom. the only real difference I see is who is in the lead and who follows. the rest is just fun and games.

fun... 



I definitely agree with this perspective and way of thought.  We serve each other only in different capacities for different reasons. 

In the past, serving as a submissive in real life for 4 years to better understand the dynamic of D/s from both sides, I often overlooked my Domme's service to me.  It was not until I finished my service as a submissive and took on my first real life sub, did I realise that as a Domme, my position requires good judgement, taking responsibilty for the life of another in every respect of the word, making sound decisions, implementing these decisions based on sound judgement, relating to my submissve in a manner that is succinct, respectful and edifying for both of us.  Then following up, reassessing what just took place, modifying when necessary and apologizing for my screw-ups, change my strategy ~ only to start from the beginning all over again.

Damn, just thinking about it makes me tired.

LBO

(in reply to Ferric58)
Profile   Post #: 59
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