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Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 10:00:40 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Anyone who has spent any amount of time in a lifestyle community has seen it happen. Not to say that it's a phenomenon that is exclusive to this lifestyle....it's not...but lifestyle communities tend to be small enough that over time people get to know or know of most who are in it. Reputations develop over time and often times those reputations are referenced in terms of play styles and character.

People meet and develop a relationship and the next thing you know they are singing each other's praises. They become the greatest thing since sliced white bread and are sometimes spoken of as though they could walk on water. Deep professions of love and commitment. For the duration of their relationship the picture painted is one of bliss.

Fast forward.....things don't work out and they decide to split. Suddenly, these same people who were their partner....the most perfect Dom/Master, sub/slave, human being on the planet....are now liars, posers, fakes, wannabes or a lot of other names, who lack all character and integrity and are even sometimes a dangerous individual that you should avoid. Now the focus seems to have shifted from declarations of their partner's perfection to what can I say to discredit them in the worst possible ways. Now we get the "REST" of the story. He said/she said, He did/she did, He didn't/she didn't, He was/she was, He wasn't/she wasn't.

What ends up happening is that their attempts to paint such a negative picture reflect back upon them and wind up saying more about the person doing the bashing than the one being slammed. They end up discrediting themselves far more than the person they are attempting to discredit....and they usually look petty, ridiculous and immature in the process.

I know that I don't tend to view people who do this in a very postive way. I have to wonder if they just don't realize how bad they are making themselves look and how much they are hurting their own reputations in the process. Sure, there are some who thrive on the gossip and give them sympathy...but I think that many, if not more, are really turned off by such behavior.

How do you view it when people act this way?





_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 10:03:42 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Same as you.  These are usually also the ones who suddenly think "bad dom" lists are a good idea.

It really is just a spurned lover- but it happens all the time where the one crying gets the attention and doms are very quickly turned into big bad monsters based on a chick who didn't get the aftercare she thought she deserved.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 10:13:55 AM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		mistoferin:  Sour grape-ism isn't confined to B/D/S/M, as you know.  I've seen it in corporations and law firms, when a "fair haired boy (or girl)" takes another job.   The person in question is a brilliant executive/lawyer that the organization has been singing the praises of to all.  The prodigy gives notice, and suddenly becomes a has-been, who did questionable work and who was on the verge of being fired.

How do I feel about it?  You summed it up pretty well: 
quote:

What ends up happening is that their attempts to paint such a negative picture reflect back upon them and wind up saying more about the person doing the bashing than the one being slammed. They end up discrediting themselves far more than the person they are attempting to discredit....and they usually look petty, ridiculous and immature in the process.
   But I remind myself that it is human nature (which is why it is one of Aesop's fables, remember?).  I note it, usually smile inwardly, and move on.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 10:18:03 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		personal responsibility is such a sexy thing.....blaming others is not. i agree Erin i dont think the folks that speak poorly of their past partner realize that it serves to tarnish their credibility and character, maybe even more so then the one they are attempting to tarnish.
 
"man can fail many times, but is not a failure till he blames some one else"

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 10:18:27 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Oh, this is so sad when it happens.  You have someone that you thought you knew, someone you thought had a good head on their shoulders, and they break up with their "better than the best S.O." and BAM!  they suddenly become a crazed lunatic spouting all kinds of crap about the person they were completely blissful with not too long ago. 

Wellll, relationships end, and usually badly, or they likely wouldn't be ending.  When someone has nothing but bad things to say about a former lover or S.O. it only makes them look foolish.  They usually end up alienating any mutual friends that they had because they can't stand it when a person refuses to take their side.  Our policy is to never take sides, this way most of the foolish people weed themselves out of our lives quickly.


_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 10:19:51 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline
quote:

it is one of Aesop's fables,
i dont know that one...can you tell the story or post a link E?

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 10:27:42 AM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I also find it really poor behavior. People are drawn to ending relationships without any degree of class, in public, with all the drama. People have completely overstepped the notion that it's a good idea to red-flag genuinely *dangerous* people for other people and have made it into a circus so that no one can rely on anyone for information about prospectives - we're completely incapable of self-regulating.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 10:31:00 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		The first Ds relationship I had after Tom and I moved to where we are now crashed and burned for a variety of reasons -- the results have been a tightening of my approach and formality to setting up relationships and limits on who I'll have Ds relationships with.

It was pretty damned clear I was upset when it happened and I tried not to speak badly about the person who left (he also left the group at the time but not by my urging though I was grateful he did frankly).

However several people came up to me and started telling me how they thought he was bad news, they thought he was no good, and that they had been afraid something like that would happen.

WHAT?!

I think you all can pick up on how cautious and slow I am when things start. I asked around about that man before I started to seriously talk to him. These same people who told me he was a weasle (their exact words) gave him glowing reviews when I was asking around the community about him.

It really pissed me off. I mean, I understand not wanting to step forward and rat on someone when you see them get into a relationship but if you are asked your opinion about someone in your local community, I think you need to be honest.

Of course all of their great hindsight might have been merely some attempt to make me feel better? It didn't work and it actually made me less trusting of those same people because I could never be certain if they were being honest with me about anything or just saying whatever they thought was best to say at the moment.

Let me not claim that I was above talking crap about an ex -- I'm human, of course I did. I did indeed talk a lot of crap about him with my closest friends, my husband and my therapist but I didn't randomly do it in the local community at large (though one time I got so upset at what I was feeling that I unwisely shared things on a email forum not directly connected to the local community). If someone had come to me and asked me about him however I would have told them about my experience as honestly as I could.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 12/21/2006 10:46:00 AM >

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 11:24:35 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Let me not claim that I was above talking crap about an ex -- I'm human, of course I did. I did indeed talk a lot of crap about him with my closest friends, my husband and my therapist but I didn't randomly do it in the local community at large (though one time I got so upset at what I was feeling that I unwisely shared things on a email forum not directly connected to the local community). If someone had come to me and asked me about him however I would have told them about my experience as honestly as I could.


There is certainly a difference between crying on the shoulder of a close friend or family member and going on a mission to discredit someone. Even so, I try very hard not to "talk crap" about an ex...even to friends and family. I generally respond along the lines of "we are splitting up because we found that we were too far apart in too many areas to find enough common ground to stand on", or a simple "it just didn't work out". This I can do without having to resort to character assassination. Of course, people love the juicy details but I generally prefer to stay with generalities rather than dole out embarassing tidbits. If they are not details I would be comfortable sharing with others while we are in the relationship...I am not comfortable sharing them once we're out of it. Some things are just meant to be personal and their disclosure is not conditional upon long term compatibility.

A most recent example in a local community is one of a submissive who is new to the area who became involved with one of the most well known and well respected Dominants around here. The "relationship" was short lived. She then began telling anyone who would listen what a rotten bastard he is and how his Dominance is all show at events and such and that he is not really a Dominant at all. She went on a one woman campaign to "ruin him". I believe she overlooked one important detail in her plan. The fact that many of us know him very well and have for many years, and that it is over the course of those years that he has proven to deserve the level of respect he has earned.

In reality, what she has ended up accomplishing is probably very efficiently ruining her own chances at finding someone here who has any credibility whatsoever. Most who have witnessed her behavior in this matter now have her in their "wouldn't go near that one with a 10 foot pole" category.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 11:31:51 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		"They say that anger is just love disappointed." - Eagles

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 11:55:52 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I don't like it.  I don't even talk badly about my ex husband, even though if I see him I get hives. 
When you have spent some time sharing a life with someone you have to take responsibility for what goes on in that life.  If I had chosen to get involved with a man then I took the time to get to know him first.  I decided he was someone whom I wanted to know better.  If it doesn't work out I share the blame, because I took the step to take a chance with him.  EVEN if he turned out to be a lying, backstabbing, drunken, pinafore wearing, high heel stealing bastard, "I" was the one who chose him.  There had to be some signs that too many people ignore along the way.  That is why I am careful about whom I fall for.  In my life I have been in love twice, and married once (no, I didn't love him).

I do my best to maintain my friendships with former mates.  I am still in contact with my dom of 20+ yrs ago, we are good friends.  I am trying hard now to deaden the pain of my most recent relationship ending because HE is my best friend.. and my boss, and my teacher, and my most painful loss.
I knew about his issues before I started up with him.  And I chose to ignore them which was my failing.  His issues stayed and eventually brought about our end.  I should have been prepared but was not. 

When I talk of him I never want to be disrespectful because he is still the same man and I am still the same woman.  The one who walked in with eyes wide open and ignored the obvious. 

I find it odd that people knock the other person in their lives when things don't work out.  But I think the hurt must be greater when you can't accept your part in it.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 1:14:13 PM   
nikaa


Posts: 357
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline 		Break up of a long-term relationship can trigger grief. Each person mourns a loss differently. However, there are 5 common stages of grief a person goes through when mourning the loss of a relationship (regardless of the labels they wore within the relationship).

1.Denial – The “I can’t believe it’s over” stage.
2.Anger/Resentment – The “Why you dirty bastard?” stage.
3. Bargaining – The “If I do this, you’ll do that” stage.
4. Depression – The “It’s really over” stage.
5. Acceptance – The “ This is what happened” stage.

We may not experience these stages in a fluid motion. I may go through some stages more than once or return to a stage due to a “trigger”.

Anger is a natural process of the grieving process. It is natural to get angry with someone (regardless of the labels worn in the relationship) when someone causes you pain. Am I going to condemn someone for going through the grieving process? No, however, I may take them aside and speak with them privately if they are bashing their former partner publicly.

That being said, we also do not know what goes on within ANY relationship but our own behind closed doors. I think some times people are to close to the situation to see the truth or simply don’t want to see the truth but when the relationship ends their eyes become wide open to the reality of their relationship. So if and when people speak negatively about ex’s I simply take it as one side of a story, nothing more nothing less. Is it in poor taste? In my opinion yes it is but taste is just that personal taste which is based on personal perspective and what I find in bad taste that person may find perfectly acceptable or vice versa.

In the end, I have to decide how "I" conduct myself. If someone is constantly bashing their ex I make the choice to first tell them I feel it is in poor taste (regardless of the labels worn) and if it continues I choose to simply not deal with that person in regards to their ex.

_____________________________

Blessed Be,

Phoenix's Nika


The Cherokee legacy is that we are a people who face adversity, survive, adapt, prosper and excel.


Wakan Tankan Nici Un




(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 1:24:41 PM   
MistrssM


Posts: 45
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I have always said that the true nature of a person is not shown in how they enter your life or enter a relationship with you... but in how they part from you. I have always tried to maintain some dignity when relationships in the scene or otherwise have ended....even when the gossip hounds have come a calling.  You never know where fate may take you.. you never know if the person you are bashing today to everyone within ear shot may be the one you love again tomorrow... you also have to consider....if this person truly was as awful as you are saying .. well then how does it make you look to have been with them in the first place?

Maybe its a domme thing and the fact I date younger men but I tend to be very protective of my exes and their character.....even the ones who were not so protective of mine.

When all is said and done.. taking the higher road is always better.. even if it is not always easy.





(in reply to nikaa)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 2:11:48 PM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

personal responsibility is such a sexy thing.....blaming others is not. i agree Erin i dont think the folks that speak poorly of their past partner realize that it serves to tarnish their credibility and character, maybe even more so then the one they are attempting to tarnish.
 
"man can fail many times, but is not a failure till he blames some one else"



crouchingtigress,
In general, I'd typically agree with what you and the others have said.  I've had a very difficult time with my former Mistress who is the mother of my children.  I do not mean to air my dirty laundry, but if we had no children, I'd be free to walk away, be a duck and let things roll off my back like I was shedding water.  Instead, I have to deal with a woman who continues to try to control me.  She is very frustrated and incredibly angry that she can't; fully aware that the only way she can get a reaction from me is to use her daughters to try and hurt or manipulate me.  I have since lost all the respect I once had for this woman, and no longer see the parts of her that once attracted me enough to fall in love with her.  

I try my best to not make any derogatory comments about her in front of our children, although I often find myself in a position of having to explain to them that they have been misinformed by their mother and that I have never agreed that I would do some of the things they have at various times been told by her I would do.   I do my utmost to differentiate the person from their behavior and that is what I teach my girls to do.  Yet they see the example their mother is setting and are figuring things out for themselves.  They understand it is not right and are questioning me about it, which often times puts me in an awkward situation as I do not like to lie to them.

At a certain point in time, she started to become verbally/emotionally abusive and over the past few years has become increasingly preoccupied with material things; both of which are characteristics I had never seen before.  As a result, a couple years after our move to Dallas (which occurred four years ago), I began to lose my desire and motivation to serve her.  

As a man with a foot fetish, I knew deep within my heart my feelings for her were dead and gone for me when I no longer desired to rub her feet (something which would normally get me greatly excited), and could only turn and walk out of the room when asked or commanded to serve in that manner.  It was at that point, I felt compelled to move into another part of the house until I could find a way to move out as I no longer desired to touch or be near her at all.

I could tolerate the abuse to a point until it escalated such that it occurred in front of the girls.  My oldest eventually came to me and asked me why her mother was being so mean to me.  That was when I knew, it was time for me to hurry and leave.  It wasn't long until the girls would run and hide in one of the bedrooms until their mother was finished unloading on me.

I want to say, that I do not blame her entirely for what happened to end our relationship.  We both had our opportunities to change the outcome.  I made mistakes as well and I learned my lessons from them.  I fully accept responsibilty for my part in what has happened that helped point us toward an end.  Would I go back?  Not in a thousand years!  My only heartache at this moment is for the suffering and confusion I see in my daughters.

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 2:32:01 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with the others.  You only make yourself look foolish...if s/he was that bad, why the hell did you get involved with him or her? 

Humans...go figure!

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 2:32:47 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe some people from past relationships get what they deserve. I'm on friendly terms with all the women I've had a relationship with and still in touch with. The only one I'm not on good terms with, if her arse was on fire, I wouldn't piss on her to put her out. Make of that what you will and I don't give a monkey's wank if it tarnishes my reputation, as far as I'm concerned she was an evil bitch.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/21/2006 2:34:30 PM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 2:39:14 PM   
KennelDeSade2


Posts: 210
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		I've found that the best way to aquire a reputation as a psycho ex, is to get into a relationship with somebody who has a story to tell about the psycho ex she was with, just before just before I showed up.
I'm on good terms with most of those I've been in relationships with, and really don't understand the need to make somebody out to be a demon, because things did not work out long term.  In the long run, nothing works, or you die before it breaks.


_____________________________

Rules? Just one: I say, she does.
Everything else, is just details.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 3:59:44 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Missokyst:  I don't like it.  I don't even talk badly about my ex husband, even though if I see him I get hives. 


There is very little less attractive than a person (woman or man) who talks down their ex.  When it happens, here, or in real life conversation, I get that little voice in the back of my head saying "move away from the nasty now".  Yes, people can be bad news, but I've never found the recounting of the misery of that old relationship to spark anything in me but pity, and the desire to go away somewhere else.

(edited to add that the above is for a social situation.  It is a vastly different thing to recount the horrors of the relationship to your shrink, your brother or your best friend.  I'm talking about people who think that anecdotes about their ex's lies and arrest record are appropriate cocktail chatter with me, when I'm not shrink/brother/bud).

E.

< Message edited by Emperor1956 -- 12/21/2006 4:03:57 PM >

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 5:18:03 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
What ends up happening is that their attempts to paint such a negative picture reflect back upon them and wind up saying more about the person doing the bashing than the one being slammed. They end up discrediting themselves far more than the person they are attempting to discredit....and they usually look petty, ridiculous and immature in the process.


Sometimes that discreditting takes time... it really depends on the um popularity of those involved.

quote:


I know that I don't tend to view people who do this in a very postive way. I have to wonder if they just don't realize how bad they are making themselves look and how much they are hurting their own reputations in the process. Sure, there are some who thrive on the gossip and give them sympathy...but I think that many, if not more, are really turned off by such behavior.

How do you view it when people act this way?


I don't think people that are slamming a past partner often realize that they hurting their own reputation.  I believe alot of times they are just looking for a sympathic ear and are sometimes even deluding themselves that the person they are talking to is on their side.

I came out of rather strained relationship and apparently this past partner had alot of negative things to say a time or two.  I suppose in some aspects what was said had a grain of truth to it... and from her prespective alot of truth.  But, some of those very people she talked to wanted to come back and tell me what was being said.  Frankly, I didn't care and didn't entertain the conversation... but some people do.

When a relationship ends and people are involved in the community it can be a rather difficult time.  I have always recommended to keep what you say very very limited and only speak to those that you can absolutely trust...like your dog *g*!  It really is no one's business what occurred in a past relationship and I don't have alot of respect for the gossip seekers.  Those on the outside only see and extremely limited view point.  Just because someone is going around talking about it doesn't mean they are doing anything particularly bad.  It might be the person that is quiet about the relationship had made some serious errors, mistakes or just plain wrong the person. It usually takes two to tango. 



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 5:24:01 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		Classy folks act classy and well trash talks trash.

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

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