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RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 5:32:48 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		Many people believe that hate is the opposite of love, but I think they are on the same side of the coin because they are strong emotions.  Indifference is the opposite of love, and when we can let go of the emotions, that is when we are truly done with the relationship. 

< Message edited by catize -- 12/21/2006 6:06:19 PM >

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
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(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 5:33:09 PM   
Petruchio


Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with the premise of your OP, mist.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 6:02:55 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear mistoferin, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Indeed "Sour Grapes" can manifest in personal relationships, in politics, in religion and or the business world also.  It is not exclusive to BDSM but, it is amplified greatly, due to the size of our (in loose terms) community at large.
 
Only those individuals involved really know what happened and what caused the splits.  Sometimes it is both parties fault, sometimes more the other and or sometimes more 'us' (in general terms).  But, it also is human nature to seek support and reassurances--sometimes it spills out and the 'peanut gallery' as we see often when people posts when things go wrong--are subjected to one side of the story in a edited form.  As time passes we (in general terms) may get importanted withheld details as to paint a more accurate picture as to what happened and; we are subjected to the party's 'perceptions' and 'assumptions.'
 
It really is difficult to be in the position of someone who has a case of "Sour Grapes" against you (in general sense).  The open out loud question would be, when is it the right time to stand up and defend against the person who is poisoning the pond with "sour grapes."
I've had a few individuals attack my reputation however, the ones doing the attacking does so in a chronic manner--so it was very easy to decide from their point of view. 
 
I also find it important, as far as I am concerned, to state my bias, prejudices and or unpleasant history up front, as to permit others to disqualify what I say, as they are tainted by personal displeasure about an individual and or stance.  However, if I am tainted, I will state briefly on how I became such, such as what I witnessed, what I personally heard first hand and leave it there in public.  I may, in confidence confide what I witnessed and heard as to upset me so, as to form my bias/prejudices.
 
In summary, I highly doubt that any of us (in general terms) will escape from being subjected to "Sour Grape" incidents.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 6:15:30 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		When things go bad, its helpful to have a sense of humor about it. When someone takes a tough situation and disarms it with humor, it shows a healthy self possession, a perspective beyond one's own grievances, and an agility of mind and spirit. Its the opposite of sour grapes, which imprisons one's attitude and outlook on a situation or person.

This is one of the reasons why people living under repressive regimes have a deep sense of humor, it helps them confront absurdity and injustice with a straight eye and lighter soul. Its a healthy coping mechanism, better than denial and better than rancorous embitterment.

"You grow up the day you can have your first real laugh -- at yourself." --Ethel Barrymore



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/21/2006 6:17:35 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 6:50:35 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I pointed that out because I internalize my emotions, rather than vent them.  But thanks for pointing out what I already know. 
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

quote:

Missokyst:  I don't like it.  I don't even talk badly about my ex husband, even though if I see him I get hives. 


There is very little less attractive than a person (woman or man) who talks down their ex.  When it happens, here, or in real life conversation, I get that little voice in the back of my head saying "move away from the nasty now". 


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 6:52:19 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I like this thought.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

Many people believe that hate is the opposite of love, but I think they are on the same side of the coin because they are strong emotions.  Indifference is the opposite of love, and when we can let go of the emotions, that is when we are truly done with the relationship. 

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 8:12:44 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

Many people believe that hate is the opposite of love, but I think they are on the same side of the coin because they are strong emotions.  Indifference is the opposite of love, and when we can let go of the emotions, that is when we are truly done with the relationship. 


This may be true, but as someone that has often been victimized by evil, vicious, and nasty
people.  I would REALLY, and I do mean REALLY rather deal with indifference.
Hatred and evil intent can lead to serious crimes, I need not go on.
I will take indifference any day. 

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 8:38:16 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline 		There is a fine line between love and hate. Sadly it is all too easy to step over that line without realising it.

And as they also say there is a fine line between genius and insanity and I seem to spend a lot of time teetering on the insanity side I think!!

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 8:56:05 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I don't like it.  I don't even talk badly about my ex husband, even though if I see him I get hives. 


You'd never say a bad word about him except that the mere sight of him can give a woman a case of the hives. Got it.



quote:

When you have spent some time sharing a life with someone you have to take responsibility for what goes on in that life.  If I had chosen to get involved with a man then I took the time to get to know him first.  I decided he was someone whom I wanted to know better.  If it doesn't work out I share the blame, because I took the step to take a chance with him.  EVEN if he turned out to be a lying, backstabbing, drunken, pinafore wearing, high heel stealing bastard, "I" was the one who chose him. 


Please tell me that was hypothetical. Otherwise this post is just too funny.

quote:

...

I do my best to maintain my friendships with former mates.  I am still in contact with my dom of 20+ yrs ago, we are good friends.  I am trying hard now to deaden the pain of my most recent relationship ending because HE is my best friend.. and my boss, and my teacher, and my most painful loss.
I knew about his issues before I started up with him.  And I chose to ignore them which was my failing.  His issues stayed and eventually brought about our end.  I should have been prepared but was not. 


You know, I have seen posts complaining about this as an Evil Dom Trick: unconsenual emotional sadism. The one where he basically "apologizes" for his "failing" of not recognizing what a hopeless piece of crap she is.

So your relationship problems were all his fault, all arose from his failings and limitations, but you take full "responsibility" for not seeing what a hopeless loser he is?

Sweet.


quote:

When I talk of him I never want to be disrespectful because he is still the same man and I am still the same woman.  The one who walked in with eyes wide open and ignored the obvious. 


God forbid anyone would read any disrespect into that glowing endorsement of Mr. In Your Opinion Physically Incapable of Having a Relationship Due to His Towering Limitations That You Unfortunately Overlooked.

quote:

I find it odd that people knock the other person in their lives when things don't work out.  But I think the hurt must be greater when you can't accept your part in it.
Kyst


Yeah. I find it odd, too.




(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 8:56:25 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		CrouchingTigress:  i dont know that one...can you tell the story or post a link E?

It is a famous, short one.  It is where we get our expression "Sour Grapes". 

I never figured why a fox wanted grapes, anyway  but hey...go ask Aesop...he was a slave, y'know *GRIN*

E.



_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/21/2006 9:11:17 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Sour Grapes-----

They make the dryest wine..............

Bela Lugosi



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/22/2006 6:38:14 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

mistoferin


I know that I don't tend to view people who do this in a very postive way. I have to wonder if they just don't realize how bad they are making themselves look and how much they are hurting their own reputations in the process. Sure, there are some who thrive on the gossip and give them sympathy...but I think that many, if not more, are really turned off by such behavior.

How do you view it when people act this way?



One of the largest red flags anyone can put up for me when I am getting to know them is to trash their exes in conversations when we are getting to know each other. What it tells me is that they will trash me if things do not work out. This is not a complete and total deal breaker for me, but it is something that tells me to slow down and look both ways before crossing the street with this person.

I have also had the experience of finding out every bitter truth someone uttered about their ex was indeed gospel because of how their ex went after me and tried to tarnish my reputation with complete and total fabrications and that is why I do not have a hard and fast rule about this. It does tend to reflect bad on the person that is trashing others when they do so, no matter what the story. Every single man I have ever been involved with would be willing to talk well of me after the fact. This happens for a reason, because I tend to become intimate with men that can say a nice word or two about their exes.

If I have anything negative to say about someone I am no longer seeing, I do it to my close friends and my family, get it out of my system and move on. I think the ability to be able to do this is due to my general worldview, if I learned something from the experience it was not a complete waste, and I try to learn things from everyone I have been involved with. I wish more people could learn to view things like this because it would make for a much more positive life in general, but people grieving are not always themselves, so I try to cut people slack when they are hurting from the ending of a relationship and realize time will heal the wound, they are learning, and once they have gotten it they will probably look back on the journey of that ended relationship and have SOMETHING postive to relate about it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/22/2006 7:05:48 AM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		at the ending of a relationship we thought was going to be the "one" we all get hurt and say some mean things about the other .. I do believe that is human nature ... I myself  have done it for a brief period .. but I realize .. that person must have been good on some level or I wouldn't have gotten in a relationship with them .... to this day me and the Ex wife are very close friends .. when ever her and her husband need my help I go over ..... I personally don't like blasting someones credabilty tho but I can see it happens .... lifes too short to dwell on mistakes .... the journey lies in whats ahead . not in the past

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/22/2006 7:54:57 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diamonddreamlove

Classy folks act classy and well trash talks trash.


Bullshit. The 'Evil bitch' I had the misfortune to know passed all the classy tests, had the education, the position (drug clinic director), the style, the language. She was still a malicious trickster, a moral hypocrite and an intellectual coward. If her outward class makes her classy, give me trash anyday of the week. 

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/22/2006 7:57:40 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to diamonddreamlove)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/22/2006 9:25:18 AM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		lol . now all of a sudden I have this song in my head ... country song I think ... " I like my women trashy and cheap" . or was it a cocktail waitress in a dolly parton wig .... hmmmm
 


_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/22/2006 10:36:21 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		First let me say you focus way too much on me bud.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I don't like it.  I don't even talk badly about my ex husband, even though if I see him I get hives. 


You'd never say a bad word about him except that the mere sight of him can give a woman a case of the hives. Got it.

quote:

See the internalization thing 


quote:

When you have spent some time sharing a life with someone you have to take responsibility for what goes on in that life.  If I had chosen to get involved with a man then I took the time to get to know him first.  I decided he was someone whom I wanted to know better.  If it doesn't work out I share the blame, because I took the step to take a chance with him.  EVEN if he turned out to be a lying, backstabbing, drunken, pinafore wearing, high heel stealing bastard, "I" was the one who chose him. 


Please tell me that was hypothetical. Otherwise this post is just too funny.

quote:

LOL  of course it was hypothetical!  It was meant tongue in cheek, man!. 


quote:

...

I do my best to maintain my friendships with former mates.  I am still in contact with my dom of 20+ yrs ago, we are good friends.  I am trying hard now to deaden the pain of my most recent relationship ending because HE is my best friend.. and my boss, and my teacher, and my most painful loss.
I knew about his issues before I started up with him.  And I chose to ignore them which was my failing.  His issues stayed and eventually brought about our end.  I should have been prepared but was not. 


You know, I have seen posts complaining about this as an Evil Dom Trick: unconsenual emotional sadism. The one where he basically "apologizes" for his "failing" of not recognizing what a hopeless piece of crap she is.

So your relationship problems were all his fault, all arose from his failings and limitations, but you take full "responsibility" for not seeing what a hopeless loser he is?

Sweet.

quote:

OUR problems were familial ones.  I knew it, he knew it, we choose to continue even though we weren't prepared for the end.  And he is not a loser.  It was the situation that made it impossible.  I still love the man

. 



quote:

When I talk of him I never want to be disrespectful because he is still the same man and I am still the same woman.  The one who walked in with eyes wide open and ignored the obvious. 


God forbid anyone would read any disrespect into that glowing endorsement of Mr. In Your Opinion Physically Incapable of Having a Relationship Due to His Towering Limitations That You Unfortunately Overlooked.

quote:

Unless you have met me and talked to me directly there is no way to see how I speak of him.  OUR life as a couple did not work due to family/life issues they were not failings on his part or mine.  We are still boss and employee, man and woman, friend and confidant.


quote:

I find it odd that people knock the other person in their lives when things don't work out.  But I think the hurt must be greater when you can't accept your part in it.
Kyst


Yeah. I find it odd, too.
quote:

I don't find your judgements odd at all.  Merely presumptuous.   






(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/22/2006 1:24:02 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

How do you view it when people act this way?

Pretty much the way I view tabloids in the check out line.  I might glance at the cover for to see what silliness they're up to this week... but I ain't buying it (in every sense of that phrase).

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/22/2006 1:54:42 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		LOL.  Exactly my reaction, Tamer.  "They say opposites attract, but I don't agree/I want a woman just as trashy as me!"

quote:

  lol . now all of a sudden I have this song in my head ... country song I think ... " I like my women trashy and cheap" . or was it a cocktail waitress in a dolly parton wig .... hmmmm 
 

The song is by singer/songwriter Chris Walls, and Confederate-Railroad had a hit with it. 

Well, I was raised in a sophisticated kind of style.
Yeah, my taste in music and women drove my folks half wild.
Mom and Dad had a plan for me,
It was debutantes and er-symphonies,
But I like my music; I like my women wild.

Yeah, an' I like my women just a little on the trashy side,
When they wear their clothes too tight and their hair is dyed.
Too much lipstick an' er too much rouge,
Gets me excited, leaves me feeling confused.
An' I like my women just a little on the trashy side.

Shoulda seen the looks on the faces of my Dad and Mom,
When I showed up at the door with a date for the senior prom.
They said: "Well, pardon us son, she ain't no kid.
"That's a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Parton wig.
I said: "I know it dad, ain't she cool, that's the kind I dig."

Yeah, an' I like my women just a little on the trashy side,
When they wear their clothes too tight and their hair is dyed.
Too much lipstick an' er too much rouge,
Gets me excited, leaves me feeling confused.
An' I like my women just a little on the trashy side.

Instrumental break.

I like 'em sweet, I like 'em with a heart of gold.
Yeah an' I like 'em brassy, I like 'em brazen and bold.
Well, they say that opposites attract, well, I don't agree
I want a woman just as tacky as me.
Yeah, I like my women just a little on the trashy side.

Yeah, an' I like my women just a little on the trashy side,
When they wear their clothes too tight and their hair is dyed.
Too much lipstick an' er too much rouge,
Gets me excited, leaves me feeling confused.
An' I like my women just a little on the trashy side.

Yeah, I like my women an' I like 'em on the trashy side.



_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Tamerofwild1s)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/22/2006 1:59:09 PM   
beticat


Posts: 30
Joined: 12/9/2006
Status: offline 		edieted to remove what was essentially a double post
too slow on the draw... Emperor 1956 has faster fingers than I.


...we listen to both kinds of music around here ~ Country AND Western....



< Message edited by beticat -- 12/22/2006 2:06:05 PM >

_____________________________

You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes you just might find
You get what you need
-Rolling Stones

(in reply to Tamerofwild1s)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Sour Grapes - 12/22/2006 3:57:34 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		yep that was it . and I used to sing it loud as could be when it played too .. man .. sometimes I miss my country music
 


_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to beticat)
Profile   Post #: 40
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