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SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 11:55:09 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		http://www.greenerypress.com/articles.htm

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

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RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 12:01:14 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline 		Since Master and I do not 'play' at anything within our relationship, I guess that this article does not apply us.

/shrug

I am curious as to why you posted it though.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 12:03:05 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Good article, Lotus. You're "on a roll" in the "finding pertinent information to discuss" area(I really think so!). Personally, I think it can tend to be subjective, at times (the difference), but (to me) if it's not consensual, it's abuse. And (to me) it's not "consensual" if it hasn't been negotiated (even if in "loose terms", or discussed in passing, fleeting moments). Bottom-line: Your partner and you may want to get to know eachother well enough to know what might be considered "beyond the pale" by eachother.

I am drawn to people who have good judgment (or at least I thought so, until a few weeks ago...but overall, I still think I am). But, then again, there's that teensy-weensy part of me that wants to maintain the ability to make my own decisions, if "dire circumstances" should arise. That is why I am a submissive and not a "slave" (although I do think I have "slave-like" tendencies). This does not mean, btw, that I am dogging slaves (I am not, lest anyone misunderstand that).I am just stating why I am not one (maybe some day I would be one, I dunno).

-Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/8/2006 12:17:30 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 12:03:17 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Lotus, I think you should compile all these articles and just put them in a list on your journal for people to see. 

You aren't attaching any discussion points to some of these so I'm not sure what you're trying to inspire?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_130087/mpage_1/key_sadist%252Cabuse/tm.htm#130087
What is a sadist?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_308357/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#308357
Training and abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_255676/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#255676
Defining Domination v Abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_224182/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#224182
Ms/Ds is it a license to abuse?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_177013/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#177013
Discipline or abuse?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_142096/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#142096
Abuse vs discipline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_131849/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#131849
Abuse disguised as dominance

http://www.collarchat.com/m_123045/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#123045
Overuse of "Abuse"

http://www.collarchat.com/m_47262/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#47262
Physical Abuse of a slave

http://www.collarchat.com/m_41029/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#41029
SM vs Abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1874/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#1874
BDSM versus Abuse




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(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 12:04:16 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		I think it's a good article and while it doesn't fit for every relationship perfectly, it does raise some good points. A dominant/master who can't control their emotions does run the risk of going over the line and become abusive. The word play is probably used to cover all the bases. Some people are lifestyles, others aren't and you wouldn't want someone to disregard the advice because they think it doesn't apply to them.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Kalira)
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RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 12:15:02 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		What I am doing is presenting a topic for discussion without etablishing an opinon before hand.  The later half of this article has some good warnings to look out for that are so easily forgotten.  I was researching the issue of "isolation" when I came upon this and being it was a good article, I posted the link. 
 
Posting the link with a Subject line takes less space  and more room for the posters.

I do check links before hand. Either they skirt the topic that I want to discuss or those people that made a post to an old thread are long gone and if anyone wanted to comment direct to them... they would be talking to air.
 
Besides.. We all rely on you for the links.. No use in re-inventing the wheel.  YOU ARE DONG A FINE JOB!!!!



quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Lotus, I think you should compile all these articles and just put them in a list on your journal for people to see. 

You aren't attaching any discussion points to some of these so I'm not sure what you're trying to inspire?



Free thought, perhaps? I think people will read and comment as they will. 

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 12:31:01 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

Since Master and I do not 'play' at anything within our relationship, I guess that this article does not apply us.

/shrug

I am curious as to why you posted it though.


Well in days gone by folks called what many if not most currently call play "Work"
If you replace the terms then maybe you can get past the semantics and see the reason for the posting.

The idea that we have to differenciate our relationships from abussive ones and watch ourselves carefully to ensure we do not drift into the area of abuse, is simple enough.
Since we as a whole pretty much want the Law, the lawmakers, the councilors, the mental health professionals, the lawyers, the judges, etc... to be able to tell what is consensual SM and what is abuse so we don't end up in jail.

Additionally only the first 1/3 of the article mentioned play, so the last 2/3 might still apply since they don't contain or make inference to play.


(in reply to Kalira)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 2:12:41 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline 		i will be interested in seeing any comments on this too.  i often see in profiles 'sado looking for maso' and wonder how they draw boundaries between them (which i only speculate they do).  i myself don't know enough about sados to comment on how they themselves differentiate between sm and abuse.  This could be interesting
 
DG
 
 

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 3:35:35 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Just a note to better frame Jay's distinction between SM and abuse...
 
Don't confuse SM with power exchange relationships.  Jay was speaking specifically about SM, which is a category of play activities in which the participants are often casual acquaintances or even strangers.  As such, the dynamics of SM often are considerably different than those inherent to power exchange relationships (both in and out of scenes).
 
John

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Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 3:36:14 PM   
SirLordTrainer


Posts: 820
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Indy
Status: offline 		While I do enjoy these early workings from the links you presented, several years later I find them outdated. With exception to maybe benefit newbies.

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Accepting one's own imperfections eliminates a roadblock to progress.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 4:21:46 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLordTrainer

While I do enjoy these early workings from the links you presented, several years later I find them outdated. With exception to maybe benefit newbies.


After one has been in this lifestyle for a number of years, what we find old hat is new to someone else.   I feel, truth remains constant.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to SirLordTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 4:28:40 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yup.  To me, that's about all there is to be said, but some people are always going to be on a crusade to protect us from ourselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Personally, I think it can tend to be subjective

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 4:36:24 PM   
SirLordTrainer


Posts: 820
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Indy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLordTrainer

While I do enjoy these early workings from the links you presented, several years later I find them outdated. With exception to maybe benefit newbies.


After one has been in this lifestyle for a number of years, what we find old hat is new to someone else.   I feel, truth remains constant.


Yes thats why I said "With exception to maybe benefit newbies."  Adding further that we all grow with experience and what was once 'truth' changes as we change in regards to personal preference(s).


_____________________________

Accepting one's own imperfections eliminates a roadblock to progress.

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 7:38:01 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I guess I am abused.  6 out of 12 were definitely No's in my relationship.  And yet, I am happier and healtheir than I have ever been in my life.

The list may be beneficial for some; it does not apply to my Master and I.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/8/2006 7:53:19 PM   
TPEOwner


Posts: 73
Joined: 9/19/2006
Status: offline 		I find such articles to be more of a buffet than a sitdown meal.  Pick the things out that have meaning for you, and leave the rest.  We are none of us general beings.  We are specific and unique.  Likewise each of our relationships are unique, and no general statement or collections of such statement will ever apply completely, except perhaps to the author.  With regards to this one, I find that while people into bdsm like to talk pretty, rarely do they act that way. In terms of real life, I find that far too many view SM as what they do, and abuse as what the rest of us do.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/9/2006 4:26:07 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I use CM to read insights into the personalities of others here. Links don't lend that.

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/9/2006 4:37:51 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		It is SM when we (the you and me (personal) meaning) do it, 'cause  we know what we are doing, but it is ABUSE when anyone else does it, at least that's the way the postings always go.

Ron


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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/9/2006 5:09:49 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Ron...you're so bad!

I am a masochist and the Dominants that have been in my life thus far and the ones that I seek in the future have been and will be sadists. S&M is about actions. What does or what does not constitute abuse is not defined by solely by the action . It is not the action, the intensity of the action or the level of pain inflicted or endured that determines whether it is abusive or not. Kicking, punching, cutting, burning, etc. are not inherently abusive actions. Can they be abusively applied? Certainly...but it is not the action in itself that is the determining factor.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/9/2006 5:16:49 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		LOL!  You are so right. 

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: SM vs ABUSE - 12/19/2006 3:13:22 AM   
VampX


Posts: 23
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		The article is very interesting but I don't think it's relevant for every couple involved in the lifestyle...I guess some people find that abuse is just another part of SM practiced within the relationship.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 20
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