SM vs ABUSE

SM vs ABUSE (Full Version)

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LotusSong -> SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 11:55:09 AM)
http://www.greenerypress.com/articles.htm

Kalira -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 12:01:14 PM)
Since Master and I do not 'play' at anything within our relationship, I guess that this article does not apply us. /shrug I am curious as to why you posted it though.

SusanofO -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 12:03:05 PM)
Good article, Lotus. You're "on a roll" in the "finding pertinent information to discuss" area(I really think so!). Personally, I think it can tend to be subjective, at times (the difference), but (to me) if it's not consensual, it's abuse. And (to me) it's not "consensual" if it hasn't been negotiated (even if in "loose terms", or discussed in passing, fleeting moments). Bottom-line: Your partner and you may want to get to know eachother well enough to know what might be considered "beyond the pale" by eachother. I am drawn to people who have good judgment (or at least I thought so, until a few weeks ago...but overall, I still think I am). But, then again, there's that teensy-weensy part of me that wants to maintain the ability to make my own decisions, if "dire circumstances" should arise. That is why I am a submissive and not a "slave" (although I do think I have "slave-like" tendencies). This does not mean, btw, that I am dogging slaves (I am not, lest anyone misunderstand that).I am just stating why I am not one (maybe some day I would be one, I dunno). -Susan

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 12:03:17 PM)
Lotus, I think you should compile all these articles and just put them in a list on your journal for people to see. You aren't attaching any discussion points to some of these so I'm not sure what you're trying to inspire? http://www.collarchat.com/m_130087/mpage_1/key_sadist%252Cabuse/tm.htm#130087 What is a sadist? http://www.collarchat.com/m_308357/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#308357 Training and abuse http://www.collarchat.com/m_255676/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#255676 Defining Domination v Abuse http://www.collarchat.com/m_224182/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#224182 Ms/Ds is it a license to abuse? http://www.collarchat.com/m_177013/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#177013 Discipline or abuse? http://www.collarchat.com/m_142096/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#142096 Abuse vs discipline http://www.collarchat.com/m_131849/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#131849 Abuse disguised as dominance http://www.collarchat.com/m_123045/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#123045 Overuse of "Abuse" http://www.collarchat.com/m_47262/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#47262 Physical Abuse of a slave http://www.collarchat.com/m_41029/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#41029 SM vs Abuse http://www.collarchat.com/m_1874/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#1874 BDSM versus Abuse

AquaticSub -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 12:04:16 PM)
I think it's a good article and while it doesn't fit for every relationship perfectly, it does raise some good points. A dominant/master who can't control their emotions does run the risk of going over the line and become abusive. The word play is probably used to cover all the bases. Some people are lifestyles, others aren't and you wouldn't want someone to disregard the advice because they think it doesn't apply to them.

LotusSong -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 12:15:02 PM)
What I am doing is presenting a topic for discussion without etablishing an opinon before hand. The later half of this article has some good warnings to look out for that are so easily forgotten. I was researching the issue of "isolation" when I came upon this and being it was a good article, I posted the link. Posting the link with a Subject line takes less space and more room for the posters. I do check links before hand. Either they skirt the topic that I want to discuss or those people that made a post to an old thread are long gone and if anyone wanted to comment direct to them... they would be talking to air. Besides.. We all rely on you for the links.. No use in re-inventing the wheel. YOU ARE DONG A FINE JOB!!!! quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Lotus, I think you should compile all these articles and just put them in a list on your journal for people to see. You aren't attaching any discussion points to some of these so I'm not sure what you're trying to inspire? Free thought, perhaps? I think people will read and comment as they will.

Archer -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 12:31:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalira Since Master and I do not 'play' at anything within our relationship, I guess that this article does not apply us. /shrug I am curious as to why you posted it though. Well in days gone by folks called what many if not most currently call play "Work" If you replace the terms then maybe you can get past the semantics and see the reason for the posting. The idea that we have to differenciate our relationships from abussive ones and watch ourselves carefully to ensure we do not drift into the area of abuse, is simple enough. Since we as a whole pretty much want the Law, the lawmakers, the councilors, the mental health professionals, the lawyers, the judges, etc... to be able to tell what is consensual SM and what is abuse so we don't end up in jail. Additionally only the first 1/3 of the article mentioned play, so the last 2/3 might still apply since they don't contain or make inference to play.

adaddysgirl -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 2:12:41 PM)
i will be interested in seeing any comments on this too. i often see in profiles 'sado looking for maso' and wonder how they draw boundaries between them (which i only speculate they do). i myself don't know enough about sados to comment on how they themselves differentiate between sm and abuse. This could be interesting [&:] DG

Rover -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 3:35:35 PM)
Just a note to better frame Jay's distinction between SM and abuse... Don't confuse SM with power exchange relationships. Jay was speaking specifically about SM, which is a category of play activities in which the participants are often casual acquaintances or even strangers. As such, the dynamics of SM often are considerably different than those inherent to power exchange relationships (both in and out of scenes). John

SirLordTrainer -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 3:36:14 PM)
While I do enjoy these early workings from the links you presented, several years later I find them outdated. With exception to maybe benefit newbies.

LotusSong -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 4:21:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirLordTrainer While I do enjoy these early workings from the links you presented, several years later I find them outdated. With exception to maybe benefit newbies. After one has been in this lifestyle for a number of years, what we find old hat is new to someone else. I feel, truth remains constant.

Lordandmaster -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 4:28:40 PM)
Yup. To me, that's about all there is to be said, but some people are always going to be on a crusade to protect us from ourselves. quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO Personally, I think it can tend to be subjective

SirLordTrainer -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 4:36:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong quote: ORIGINAL: SirLordTrainer While I do enjoy these early workings from the links you presented, several years later I find them outdated. With exception to maybe benefit newbies. After one has been in this lifestyle for a number of years, what we find old hat is new to someone else. I feel, truth remains constant. Yes thats why I said "With exception to maybe benefit newbies." Adding further that we all grow with experience and what was once 'truth' changes as we change in regards to personal preference(s).

ownedgirlie -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 7:38:01 PM)
I guess I am abused. 6 out of 12 were definitely No's in my relationship. And yet, I am happier and healtheir than I have ever been in my life. The list may be beneficial for some; it does not apply to my Master and I.

TPEOwner -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/8/2006 7:53:19 PM)
I find such articles to be more of a buffet than a sitdown meal. Pick the things out that have meaning for you, and leave the rest. We are none of us general beings. We are specific and unique. Likewise each of our relationships are unique, and no general statement or collections of such statement will ever apply completely, except perhaps to the author. With regards to this one, I find that while people into bdsm like to talk pretty, rarely do they act that way. In terms of real life, I find that far too many view SM as what they do, and abuse as what the rest of us do.

ExSteelAgain -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/9/2006 4:26:07 AM)
I use CM to read insights into the personalities of others here. Links don't lend that.

mnottertail -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/9/2006 4:37:51 AM)
It is SM when we (the you and me (personal) meaning) do it, 'cause we know what we are doing, but it is ABUSE when anyone else does it, at least that's the way the postings always go. Ron

mistoferin -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/9/2006 5:09:49 AM)
Ron...you're so bad! I am a masochist and the Dominants that have been in my life thus far and the ones that I seek in the future have been and will be sadists. S&M is about actions. What does or what does not constitute abuse is not defined by solely by the action . It is not the action, the intensity of the action or the level of pain inflicted or endured that determines whether it is abusive or not. Kicking, punching, cutting, burning, etc. are not inherently abusive actions. Can they be abusively applied? Certainly...but it is not the action in itself that is the determining factor.

bandit25 -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/9/2006 5:16:49 AM)
LOL! You are so right.

VampX -> RE: SM vs ABUSE (12/19/2006 3:13:22 AM)
The article is very interesting but I don't think it's relevant for every couple involved in the lifestyle...I guess some people find that abuse is just another part of SM practiced within the relationship.

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