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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I separate humiliation from degradation in this way...degradation is applying the same tactics as humiliation only at a deeper and crueler level. For me...and this is for me and whoever I would be with only...I differentiate the two by clarifying that degradation is a bad form of humiliation that does not make the submissive feel sexually hot or mentally stimulated but rather, makes her feel that she is less than she is...it calls up aspects of things that are in no way related to play or submission to controlled domination but rather hurt and controlling domineering; a way of pulling all safe footing out from beneath her.

But what if making her feel that way makes her extremely submissive and sexually excited? Is it bad then? I love when my Master makes me feel less than what I am. It puts me in such a deep, quiet place. But it's always temporary, and in the bigger scheme I always know what he really feels about me. If I didn't, this type of activity could be very damaging to ones spirit. Or maybe I define degradation differently. Maybe I'm referring to an ultra-extreme form of humiliating, which to me I find degrading....and love it. For example (and I won't get into many here because of the reactions people tend to have), when he shoves his cock in my mouth, refers to me as his toilet, and releases his urine into me while telling me what a convenient urinal I am, that is degrading. It degrades me from a human to a urinal. Two years ago that would have been hurtful and damaging to me. Now I go into subspace, and it is an extremely intimate moment between he and I. Yet I am less than human, hence, degraded. But it is not a bad thing for me.

I will state, however, that one must be very careful when introducing this kind of activity to a submissive/slave, as degradation does have the potential to be very damaging. Not everyone can participate. The nerves that are struck are very raw and run very deep. I think this is why others have such a difficult time viewing and understanding humiliation - they can only relate to it with a personal reference. Playing with ones emotions is tricky and delicate, with lots of room for grave error. A submissive must really trust his/her dominant and must have a solid sense of self confidence and self esteem before traveling too far down that path. It is not for everyone.

**I reread this and see that this post might be misinterpreted as saying those who handle humiliation are somehow better than those who do not. I assure you that is not what I think or what I am saying. I just think humiliation and degradation come with risks and not everyone's inner make up is positively affected by it. Just like I can't handle external pain well, others aren't fans of internal pain.

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ORIGINAL: LotusSong

In addition- As is comonly asked about "forced" anything kind of play.. if you want it, is it really humiliation?
 
I think to be 'true' humiliation, it needs to be unexpected.

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ORIGINAL: maudite

I think what you're talking about is that fraction of subs who actually do say they crave real humiliation and abuse, the kind that isn't fun for them on any level, the ones who appear to have self-esteem in the negative numbers and truly believe they deserve to be degraded and abused. I don't understand those people either, and I also hurt for them... You can't help but wonder, when you encounter such people, whether they need help, some kind of intervention, or whether they really have made an informed choice that should be respected.

To be honest, I don't understand how anyone *could* make an informed choice to live like that -- it's hard not to suspect that emotional issues are leading such people to do things that aren't healthy for them -- but it's impossible for me to know what really goes into another person's decisions. And that's a hard thing sometimes -- I want to grab some people and shake them and say "what are you THINKING???"

In the end, though, all we can do from a distance is wonder.

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I separate humiliation from degradation in this way...degradation is applying the same tactics as humiliation only at a deeper and crueler level. For me...and this is for me and whoever I would be with only...I differentiate the two by clarifying that degradation is a bad form of humiliation that does not make the submissive feel sexually hot or mentally stimulated but rather, makes her feel that she is less than she is...it calls up aspects of things that are in no way related to play or submission to controlled domination but rather hurt and controlling domineering; a way of pulling all safe footing out from beneath her.

But what if making her feel that way makes her extremely submissive and sexually excited? Is it bad then? I love when my Master makes me feel less than what I am. It puts me in such a deep, quiet place. But it's always temporary, and in the bigger scheme I always know what he really feels about me. If I didn't, this type of activity could be very damaging to ones spirit. Or maybe I define degradation differently. Maybe I'm referring to an ultra-extreme form of humiliating, which to me I find degrading....and love it. For example (and I won't get into many here because of the reactions people tend to have), when he shoves his cock in my mouth, refers to me as his toilet, and releases his urine into me while telling me what a convenient urinal I am, that is degrading. It degrades me from a human to a urinal. Two years ago that would have been hurtful and damaging to me. Now I go into subspace, and it is an extremely intimate moment between he and I. Yet I am less than human, hence, degraded. But it is not a bad thing for me.

I will state, however, that one must be very careful when introducing this kind of activity to a submissive/slave, as degradation does have the potential to be very damaging. Not everyone can participate. The nerves that are struck are very raw and run very deep. I think this is why others have such a difficult time viewing and understanding humiliation - they can only relate to it with a personal reference. Playing with ones emotions is tricky and delicate, with lots of room for grave error. A submissive must really trust his/her dominant and must have a solid sense of self confidence and self esteem before traveling too far down that path. It is not for everyone.

**I reread this and see that this post might be misinterpreted as saying those who handle humiliation are somehow better than those who do not. I assure you that is not what I think or what I am saying. I just think humiliation and degradation come with risks and not everyone's inner make up is positively affected by it. Just like I can't handle external pain well, others aren't fans of internal pain.

Perhaps I shoudl have clarified a bit more. When I used the phrase "makes her feel less", I meant a state that isn't temporary. A state where she begins to question her worth not only to him but possibly, to anyone else...a state where, as I stated, the hurt and cruelty do not result in a state of sexual excitement...they result only in the pain that comes from feeling like "less than worthless" goods. That, to me, is degradation.

What you describe, even though it includes making you feel less than what you are, is done overlaying a deep, "felt" love from your dominant AND makes you sexually hot. In my eyes, that is just one more form of humiliation. But your post does go to show the subjectivity of it all.