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Humiliation - 12/7/2006 1:13:45 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I've never been one to accept a fetish for fetish sake. I have to understand it.
 
Having been raised with two older brothers, I had my share of humilation.
When hear somone "craves it, needs it, must have it", it hurts my heart and I wonder what demon inside them  requires they desire this.  Why do they feel the need for it?
 
So my question is- to those who enjoy it and such - WHY.



_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

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RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 1:16:07 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm dubious that people can fully understand their own fetishes.  They may be able to rationalize them, or explain them partially, or come up with pseudo-explanations that satisfy themselves, but the underlying reasons for fetishes are likely to be so complicated (both psychologically and physiologically) that I doubt anyone will ever really understand them in the sense of being able to specify all their causes.

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 1:17:50 PM   
drawntothedark


Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline 		I would not call it a demon to want a certain amount of humilation.
I'm not sure why I want it sometimes. I do think it may have something to do with a "switch" if you will. It puts me in a diffrent plain of thinking so to speak. I feel humble, small, and very much vunrable when it's applied right. It makes me feel my submission that much more. I had nothing in my childhood or since that would make me crave this. I am for the most part normal.

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 1:21:57 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline
It came as quite a shock that I enjoy humiliation.  When I first got involved with WIITWD, I had humiliation listed as a hard limit.  But, with experience, I learned everything is relative.  One person’s humiliation may be another’s simple teasing.    I am not into degradation, however; no name calling, no personal insults, never humiliation in public.  I just can’t see the point of real cruelty.   Still, to be made to do things I am uncomfortable with (‘spreading’, acting wantonly, using sexually explicit language, peeing in front of someone…those things make me blush hotly; and get very wet.  I dunno why; maybe the attention?  I have no clue…   beverly

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 1:23:38 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Reposted:

Part of it is BECAUSE of my academic background, I'm very smart and very well educated. I think a LOT, I work a LOT, I am a control freak, I have moderate OCD, I am the social planner for my group of friends.

Being an object means you don't have to think, you don't have to stress, you just have to BE that object. You are there, purely and passively, for service and use. There's no need for you to interpret anything, no need for you to react, only simply to BE there.

That's a pretty awesome state of being for me.

Another part, the shown off part, is because I am an exhibitionist, I get a huge charge out of people's energy when they enjoy looking and playing with me. They are giving ME lots of attention, they want to touch ME, they want to use ME for pleasure, I can provide them with a release, with a good time, a good memory.

The sexual usage part is just part of my universal sex fantasy life- it's just hot to be used, hot to be a hole to go in, do your thing and get out. I don't really know much about that other than what I've already stated. I can't tell you why it gets me so deep any more than I can tell you why bondage does.

Something most subs and slaves can understand- it takes away choice. You don't have to think, you don't get to say no, you are there to always say YES, an object, a trophy doesn't get to say stop or get to dictate how it is used.

I am somewhat materialistic in that I like to use my money and gifts to show people I care for them. It's a physical thing I can give to show I've been thinking of them and want to add to their lives. While I understand they don't NEED those things, it's a very powerful idea to me. So, to BE the object itself, to be given to someone else, has a distinct personal flavor to it.

You'll notice- all of these reasons are about ME, what I enjoy, what I get out of it.

The Owner will pass me around and use me in ways I don't necessarily enjoy directly. He will send me to people I don't have an affinity for, partly because he KNOWS I don't have an affinity for them. So I don't necessarily always love it, with anyone, anywhere. There are definitely circumstances in which I really hate it.

While I love attention, I am actually quite uncomfortable ASKING for attention, I am very uneasy when people actually look at me and say "Now, I'm going to give you all this attention, just for you, just to enjoy, and there's nothing you can do about it."

Part of it is because not too many people are actually really GOOD at giving me happy pleasure, part of it is that I've trained myself to adapt and become what the OTHER person needs for that session, which, if it's a good match, will also be what I need.

And part of it is just my innate shyness and discomfort with being a focal point of attention. I don't know what to do with it, I feel very exposed. Perhaps a paradox for someone who LOVES being exposed, but that's why I call humiliation a "burning."

So, the humiliation and objectification is a keen way for me to receive attention, which I love, while being passive about asking for it and simply being a pretty little butterfly that people are attracted to, rather than dealing with the harder ordeal for me of directly asking and directly being told to sit back and enjoy.


http://www.collarchat.com/m_354018/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#354196
humiliation???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_412944/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#413037
what is good humiliation to you?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_426015/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#426025
humiliation vs degradation

http://www.collarchat.com/m_489256/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#489324
humiliation and vulnerability

http://www.collarchat.com/m_310209/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#310223
Humiliation- verbal and physical

http://www.collarchat.com/m_266448/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#266532
humiliation ideas

Slaves on display via webcam?

Fat Cow? Verbal humiliation (rehashed)

Humiliation and Degradation

Erotic Humiliation

Female Humiliation- in the scene

Asking for humiliation

Favorite Forms of humiliation

Humiliation

Humliation Play

Favorite forms of humiliation

Erotic Humiliation and Objectification

Why such problems with humiliation?

Fun ideas for humiliation

Humiliation (2)

Verbal Humiliation

Help with humiliation please!

Your thoughts on humiliation please

Questions about humiliation


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 1:34:35 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		As a member of the needs it, craves it and must have it, I can only tell you that I know nothing in my childhood or adult life can be connected to my thirst for it. My older brother never teased me that much and if anything was over protective.

What it does to me depends on what it is. Some I take no pleasure in at all but puts me in a very nice place mentally and keeps me at that certain level of submissiveness for a good length like a strong discipline session. Others I get a great sexual turn on for and for a special few the combination of dread, embarrassment and sexual excitement is true nirvana for me. They can be interchanged depending on my mood, my owner’s mood and how it happens.

I do not dismiss that some people have certain wishes or fetishes that might be a result of past experiences whether traumatic or not, but certainly there is just some things to some people that just work for them. Humiliation to me is the latter. Do not know why and really do not care.

I am not one for over thinking basic human feelings, interests and emotions. I do not think you should never do it either but part of a lot of fun in this life is just relaxing, putting the brain in neutral and just letting go.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to drawntothedark)
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RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 3:28:23 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I've never been one to accept a fetish for fetish sake. I have to understand it.
 
Having been raised with two older brothers, I had my share of humilation.
When hear somone "craves it, needs it, must have it", it hurts my heart and I wonder what demon inside them  requires they desire this.  Why do they feel the need for it?
 
So my question is- to those who enjoy it and such - WHY.



I don't need it; nor do I crave it. However, when Master humiliates me, its a huge turn on

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 3:50:24 PM   
whisperedsighs


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline 		My childhood and most adult life history consists of degradation by my father about my weight, life choices, etc.  Such forms of verbal humiliation in a sex/play partner does nothing for me. 

On the other hand, calling me slut, whore etc during sex gets me hot.  Calling me bitch, cunt etc during a pain scene gets me hot.  These are not related to any form of abuse in my past and I can't explain the reason.  I think a big part of it is more then likely role play related.  I become this other person, and behave appropriately.  It's all fantasy.

Having to have my legs spread, expose myself, areas that I am very much prudish about, gets me hot, hot, hot!  The lack of control given up in these situations only puts me deeper into head space.

I do love the other form of attention also when appropriate, being told, you are so brave, you are doing really well, you can get through this, etc during an intense scene helps me to push the envelope on where I can go.

_____________________________

oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 4:10:46 PM   
PiercedDaz


Posts: 121
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		This is a great thread as I'm fascinated by the concept of humiliation.

So, is humiliation wrong? Is humiation in any way productive? What does a Dom get from humiliating a sub (apart from the power trip) and what does a sub get from it (apart from the feeling of pleasing the Master)?

These are both feelings of wanting to show something to the other. Is there actually anything internally positive to be gained from humiliation? Is humiliation just for control freaks and people with past problems that need to continue the pattern?

Ok, this is all controversial. I AM the Devils advocate. I never judge anyone for believing their own beliefs, I just want to understand the range of feelings.

Daz.

_____________________________

"A taboo is a strong social prohibition relating to any area of human activity or social custom declared as sacred and forbidden; breaking of the taboo is usually considered objectionable or abhorrent by society"......Woohoo!!!

(in reply to whisperedsighs)
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RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 4:21:58 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PiercedDaz

This is a great thread as I'm fascinated by the concept of humiliation.

So, is humiliation wrong? Is humiation in any way productive? What does a Dom get from humiliating a sub (apart from the power trip) and what does a sub get from it (apart from the feeling of pleasing the Master)?

These are both feelings of wanting to show something to the other. Is there actually anything internally positive to be gained from humiliation? Is humiliation just for control freaks and people with past problems that need to continue the pattern?

Ok, this is all controversial. I AM the Devils advocate. I never judge anyone for believing their own beliefs, I just want to understand the range of feelings.

Daz.


Me too. 
 
 
(I'm up here in the balcony watching it all.. wanna sit with me?  I have popcorn :) 

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 4:26:04 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		In addition- As is comonly asked about "forced" anything kind of play.. if you want it, is it really humiliation?
 
I think to be 'true' humiliation, it needs to be unexpected.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 4:27:02 PM   
cindyhypno


Posts: 27
Joined: 11/1/2006
Status: offline 		Although I haven't read all the posts, I think that humiliation is judged in the context it is used. During some rather intense moments between me and my partner, there may be some humiliation going on. Whereas during a more calm time, those words may be not uttered at all. It is all in the context that the words are used. I guess that comes from my love of writing erotic stories and knowing about language, verbal or otherwise.

Cynthia


_____________________________

Cynthia (Dominant)
My Site
Health thru hypnosis

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 4:36:18 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

In addition- As is comonly asked about "forced" anything kind of play.. if you want it, is it really humiliation?

Yes, you can both love and hate something.

quote:

I think to be 'true' humiliation, it needs to be unexpected.

You can believe that...but that certainly hasn't been my experience.  In fact, the anticipation for the event can be just as humiliating as anything.

Humiliation isn't about the act- it's about what it does to the person.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 4:49:10 PM   
whisperedsighs


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

In addition- As is comonly asked about "forced" anything kind of play.. if you want it, is it really humiliation?
 
I think to be 'true' humiliation, it needs to be unexpected.


I never know when it's going to come up.  It is sort of a go with the flow kind of thing. 

_____________________________

oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 4:51:09 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		BANG!

Consider yourself humiliated.





Was it as good for you as it was for me?

(in reply to whisperedsighs)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 5:07:48 PM   
darksdesire


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		One of my biggest fears in life, even as early as childhood has been humiliation.  Memories of being humiliated are some of the most painful in my life.  Needless to say, it came as a shock to me to learn that i love humiliation with my Master, and in fact, it is now a very important part of our play.  The thing is, maybe it's truly not humiliation because it doesn't induce shame when he does it, in the way humiliation generally does.  It's an extreme turn on, and when he hits the buttons, the very personal, sore places that are specific to me, to my life and history and sensitivies, the erotic response is intense.

LAM made an excellent point.  Who knows why we have the kinks we have.  It's likely far more complicated than a single answer, far more ingrained in the most primitive parts of ourselves, and not easily understood.

But, one thing i do know...When he uses humiliation in such a way that is very specific to me, i feel loved.  Perhaps it is because in those moments, i am the most exposed to him, and even as he humiliates, i am fully aware that he loves me.  It is as though he is playing with the most shameful parts of me, he is actually delighting in them, and loving and accepting them.  It's a paradox.  What should hurt becomes transformed into something that seems more healing.  What is shameful becomes exposed to the light and is accepted and loved, and becomes a source of pride.  Allowing him to see this part of me requires a profound trust that has taken a long time to achieve.  

To those who don't enjoy it humiliation can appear cruel and damaging.  However, that is also the case for what we do in general.  To outsiders, tying someone up and beating them seems cruel and damaging.  i for one can say that humiliation in the context of a D/s relationship takes on a completely different flavor than the sort of humiliation that occurs in the vanilla world.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 7:08:07 PM   
whisperedsighs


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline 		ummmm no

can you do it again?

_____________________________

oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 7:09:46 PM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline 		this is a very interesting thread to me...when i first entered the bdsm scene, i had humiliation as one of my definite hard limits...why in the world would i want to be humiliated??  i was thinking about the times as a child when i would do something & the teacher would humiliate me in front of the whole class...it was a cruelty...then i was talking with someone in the life & said that to him & he started asking me about specific acts wanting to know if i enjoyed each...he would mention something & i would say, 'oh, yeah, i love that' or 'that turns me on tremendously', etc...he finally pointed out that those things were forms of humiliation...i had thought that if i enjoyed doing something, it wasn't humiliating, therefore didn't fall into the humiliation category...

once i discovered this little truth about myself, i found someone with whom i could safely explore & it has turned out that i enjoy degradation also...please understand that this is a man who adores me & respects me & cares deeply about me...he had never explored these areas either, but once he determined that it turned me on, he started pushing both of our limits...many things are simply verbal, & we agree that some of them will remain as fantasies, but some we would like to actually do with each other...

i think that what some don't understand about the desire to be humiliated & the enjoyment that one can derive from it is that it's not what we have been traditionally led to believe is humiliation, such as my example above...i would never have been able to explore this with this man, to have him say the things that he says to me without the knowledge that he cares so much about me & respects me highly...i worried for awhile when i got into the degradation aspect of it, that there was something terribly wrong with me that this turned me on so much...then i just decided to relax & enjoy it...analyzing something like this might tend to ruin it & i'm having waaaay too much fun to risk that!!


_____________________________

Linea, collarded pet of the evil Sir Max & his lovely & equally evil wife


it's no fun unless you're scared

if you can't be brave, be determined & you'll get to the same place

wannabe member of the subbi mafia

(in reply to darksdesire)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 8:09:09 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I always hated humiliation because my parents used it as punishment for us as children. I used to die inside just a bit every time it occurred.  With other dominants I have spent time with, being humiliated was frightening and traumatic.  With my Master, I have found that I love it, crave it, and respond extremely well to it - the more humiliating the better.

But then he is the first person in my life I ever truly felt safe with. 

When he humiliates, degrades and debases me, it's like I stand up on the mountain top and face and conquer my old demons.  My Master is my safe place.  All that he does comes from a place of goodness.  We discovered that he can intensely humiliate me and it doesn't hurt me.  And then I crave more and more as though to dare myself, how much can I take?  As it turns out, the more humiliation I take from him the more intensely submissive I feel to him and the stronger a person I become.  Because if I can take THAT, I can take ANYTHING. 

Plus there is the turn-on aspect of it, which is how intensely I feel his power when he subjects me to something I would otherwise deem as awful.  His power lights my fire, and the harder he is on me the more I thrive.

On the other hand, I don't respond well to severe whippings or other intense physical pain.  We all have our trigger points.  Your compassion is admirable but misplaced. Would your heart hurt as deeply if you saw someone caned and loving it, even though screaming through it?  Humiliation, like caning or anything else, is just another avenue into the essence of a person.

So that might explain how it can still be humiliating even if you want it. 

As for expected vs. unexpected, a lashing of the spirit is felt, whether one knows it is coming or not.  My Master could tell me, "By the way slut, tonight you'll be performing your little slut dance for 10 men, and then spreading your legs for their enjoyment." and I would still feel humiliated while doing it, versus if he sprung it on me - "Gee look who's here!" 

Humiliation, for me, is about whipping me from the inside.  And in his hands it is incredibly safe.  It is not that I crave to be humiliated.  It is that I crave to feel HIS power by way of him humiliating me.


(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Humiliation - 12/7/2006 8:26:39 PM   
HollyS


Posts: 230
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline 		I find it interesting to read other people's thoughts on how positive humiliation can be for them, because verbal humiliation is one place I really can't go.  It doesn't make me hot or turned on or anything, just makes me feel awful... like I'm a kid who needs to get as far away from it as possible. 

quote:

i would never have been able to explore this with this man, to have him say the things that he says to me without the knowledge that he cares so much about me & respects me highly..


I understand this intellectually, for other people, but I can't reconcile it for myself.  Hearing certain things from my Sir would make me think he really believes them, and then wonder why he wanted to be with me at all.  I wouldn't feel loved or accepted or vulnerable in a good way as other people have mentioned...  Big trust-buster for me.

Different from most people, I know, but there ya go.

~Holly


_____________________________

I wish my lawn were emo, so it would cut itself.

(in reply to lilsubl)
Profile   Post #: 20
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