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Judging others... - 11/13/2006 11:00:58 PM

emdoub

Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline

This came up in another thread, but rather than contribute further to the topic drift, I brought it here. Things were calming down, but this stuck in my craw - I couldn't let it go by unremarked.

Hmmm... I don't want to quote someone outside of the thread they posted to without permission, and it really doesn't matter who said it - it's been said by lots of people in lots of places. Apologies to the author if they'd have preferred the attribution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nunya Bidness

this is why i try not to have "opinions" about anyone personally; they are really judgements on ones character in the end.

Oh, how did 'judgemental' get to be a bad word, and an awful thing to do to someone?

If someone can't make judgements about me, how can they decide that I'm wonderful, or not their type, or a flaming asshole?

I use judgements all the time about people. This person, I judge to be distasteful to me and unsafe socially - they're not welcome in my house. That person, I judge to be a kindred soul, so we have lunch every week, just to have an afternoon of "us, surrounded by them". Another, I judge to be goodhearted, but self-destructive - so while I wish them the best, and like them just fine, I've gotta distance myself, so as to be elsewhere when they go >splat<.

Simply put, I have no idea of how I'd live my life without making judgements, and trusting my judgement, and accepting the consequences when I make a mistake in my judgements.

If someone is not allowed to judge people, how can they decide between me and some other HNG to be their next try at a d/s relationship? Without judgement, it'd have to be on a first come, first served basis. (In which case, I wanna be first, eh? But I'd prefer to be served before I come.)

Many people have attempted to insult me by calling me judgemental. I tend to surprise them by thanking them - I'm glad that it shows when I have judgement, and use it.

I'd hate to be thought of as having no judgement, after all.

Midnight Pontificator

_____________________________

Benevolent Dictator of TIES - Tremendously Intense Erotic Situations. If you're local to Mpls-St.Paul, MN, you may want to check us out. The web site is at http://www.ties-bdsm.org and the Munches are monthly.

Post #: 1

RE: Judging others... - 11/13/2006 11:08:14 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
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To me, the difference between judging and being judgmental is making a good-faith effort to put yourself in the other person's shoes before coming to a verdict. I agree with you that it's hardly possible to live without making judgments, including judgments about other people, but what I find is that too often people make hasty judgments based merely on their own habits and unreflective preferences. I'd call THAT judgmental.

(in reply to emdoub)

Post #: 2

RE: Judging others... - 11/13/2006 11:09:37 PM

SirGordonslil

Posts: 70
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline

here! here! emdoub, well put

without judgment i wouldnt have the good friends i have today.

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(in reply to emdoub)

Post #: 3

RE: Judging others... - 11/13/2006 11:10:17 PM

diamonddreamlove

Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline

I use my judgement but try not to be judgemental which implies being critical of another.

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(in reply to emdoub)

Post #: 4

RE: Judging others... - 11/13/2006 11:11:08 PM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

I think that the word 'judgement' gets a bad reputation because many associate it with the negative.

For myself, and myself only, if I judge someone it usually means that they are coming up short in my OWN opinions and expectations of them. ( notice how I said my own ) I judge and one of two things follows; I either condemn, or I accept.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to emdoub)

Post #: 5

RE: Judging others... - 11/13/2006 11:14:14 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_580951/mpage_1/key_judgmental/tm.htm#580987
Judgmental

http://www.collarchat.com/m_643238/mpage_1/key_judgmental/tm.htm#643252
What do you think?

_____________________________

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(in reply to emdoub)

Post #: 6

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 12:00:23 AM

emdoub

Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline

Lordandmaster - what you call judgemental', I call 'poor judgement'. Poor judgement is one of those things about which I am, indeed, very judgemental, in a very negative way.

Thanks, SirGordonslil!

diamonddreamlove - you and Kalira seem to be on the same page, so I'll answer you both together.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

I think that the word 'judgement' gets a bad reputation because many associate it with the negative.

Positive judgements are impossible without negative judgements.

Nor should we fear negative judgements. These have kept me from inviting a thief back into my home, kept my daughter from associating with a charming, personable guy who has the nasty habit of inciting fights among his friends, and prevents me from befriending social homophobes.

(I should probably explain that term. If someone simply gets the willies about GLBT folks, and politely maintains a distance, keeping their problem to themselves, fine - that's polite behavior, and all I can ask. A social homophobe makes their attitude about GLBT folks clear, and expects it to be socially acceptable. In *my* society, it ain't.)

Yes, it would probably be a wonderful world if there were not people whom I judged 'unworthy'. Unfortunately, I don't live there - I live here, where there are plenty of people who are not worth my time or energy, much less my society or friendship.

The funny thing that was pointed out in one of the threads LuckyAlbatross pointed toward is that the folks who whine about someone being 'judgemental' are doing so as an act of judgement.

Maybe I should add "judgemental asshole" to my profile - truth in advertising, after all.

Midnight Writer

_____________________________

Benevolent Dictator of TIES - Tremendously Intense Erotic Situations. If you're local to Mpls-St.Paul, MN, you may want to check us out. The web site is at http://www.ties-bdsm.org and the Munches are monthly.

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 7

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 1:40:55 AM

leatherzack

Posts: 59
Joined: 7/13/2005
Status: offline

For me, there is a big difference between having an opinion on someone's behavior and judging that person.

The term "judging" is more definite to me. And to really judge someone, i think you have to know a lot about that person first, not just assume things (which is rather easy).

(in reply to emdoub)

Post #: 8

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 3:23:01 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

The definintion of Discernment (which no one would think of as an negative) is to "show insight and judgement" By definition judgement and discerment are the same. Some folks will stand on semantics and i declare myself Anti-Semantic.

As one who wrote advertising copy for a living, we have to step down from pure definitions of words and accept the common venacular. In America, today, "judge" no longer means to weigh the pros and cons of something but means to find fault. That's not the definition of the word, but it is how the word is understood by the majority of readers. In advertising, when the right word has the wrong connotation, we simply choose a better word or a word that is not negatively charged. It might not be a preferred way to communicate but it is what it is.

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(in reply to leatherzack)

Post #: 9

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 3:42:02 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leatherzack

For me, there is a big difference between having an opinion on someone's behavior and judging that person.

The term "judging" is more definite to me. And to really judge someone, i think you have to know a lot about that person first, not just assume things (which is rather easy).

I think the same way.

I haven't found *judgemental* behaviour helpful or positive and don't like being around people that display it.

* All druggies are arse-holes*.....* All down and outs are losers*.......All children that wear hoodies are thugs*....

Judging, on the other hand, is the act of forming an opinion.......... as far as I'm concerned, that is an ongoing, open-ended process.

agirl

(in reply to leatherzack)

Post #: 10

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 5:30:20 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

I think the problem is not when we make judgements, but when we dont keep an open minded about it.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 11

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 5:55:33 AM

behindmirrors

Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline

I am a judgemental person, but in the sense that has been put forth already (much like the OP)- I look at what a person is like, and I form a strong opinion of them on account of that. I look at how they treat me and others, and at how they view themself as well. These things give you very telling information on where the road with that person will go, and helps me to decide if I want to walk with them, go my own way, or run the opposite direction as fast as I can.

Judging people is learning to discern what you want and do not want to associate yourself with. If I hold a high opinion of someone, it's because of a good reason- and one that has taken careful thought. I'm not quick to trust, but I am quick to observe. Judgement takes time, but having that basis in observation is incredibly helpful.

I think judgement is an incredibly helpful tool for everyone. Without having a basis of good judgement, we run into many problems- and, well, I'd rather be judicious and careful than end up miserable or hurt by another.

behindmirrors.

As a PS to the OP- I would love to get some more information on TIES...I live in Minneapolis, too, and it sounds great. I'll probably be sending you a message in a bit, here. I did check out the website, but I have a few more questions.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 12

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 6:07:05 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

It's an opinion when they agree.. if they don't .. it's a judgment.

(in reply to emdoub)

Post #: 13

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 6:27:39 AM

ElektraUkM

Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

Well I suppose for me it depends on why one is doing the judging, on what basis, and whether or not you're keeping an open mind, asking questions, or being provisional about it.

I don't see anything wrong with making an assessment that you don't want to give this person any more of your time... though you may end up losing out on experiences, other points of view or whatever. That's a personal decision. It's when judgment leads to criticism or outright condemnation that it irks, especially when the judgment was based on prejudice, lack of information or errors of ... err... judgment. And I suppose that's why the old 'judge not...' recommendation came into being...

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 14

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 6:31:40 AM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

It's an opinion when they agree.. if they don't .. it's a judgment.

That's how i've been seeing it. One is being judgmental.... when disagreeing with someone.

As i've disagreed with a few on here in my 12 months on here. I've been acussed of beng judgemental because I don't agree.... because I oppose......because i've not tried something.....i've even gone so far as to agree to stop the flaming... to calm things down...even though my own opinions off line have not changed....

My judgement on things... people.... is what's kept me alive all these years....and I'll keep on having my judgemental thoughts.... no matter how others want to judge me for it...

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Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 15

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 6:35:11 AM

emdoub

Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I haven't found *judgemental* behaviour helpful or positive and don't like being around people that display it.

* All druggies are arse-holes*.....* All down and outs are losers*.......All children that wear hoodies are thugs*....

Those phrases aren't judgemental so much as they are prejudicial - judging someone because of membership in a group, rather than on their individual merits.

Now, I've gotta confess to being somewhat prejudiced, but I do strive to judge individuals as individuals - the groups they can be lumped into may make me wary, but I was taught at a young age to never be rude about my prejudices.

Particularly racial prejudice - that was stressed quite a bit by my Grandfather. As he explained clearly, being rude to someone because of their racial background was unacceptable - after all, it's not like anyone would ever be anything but Irish by choice.

Midnight Writer

_____________________________

Benevolent Dictator of TIES - Tremendously Intense Erotic Situations. If you're local to Mpls-St.Paul, MN, you may want to check us out. The web site is at http://www.ties-bdsm.org and the Munches are monthly.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 16

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 6:35:36 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

When someone says to me "don't be judgmental" what they mean is that they know they're doing something they shouldn't but want to get away with it without damaging people's opinions of them. Sorry, that doesn't wash. If you want to be known as a moral person, you have to act morally.

Of course I'm judgmental, I don't want to be with people who lie, cheat, steal, are addicts etc so I judge what kind of people they are.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 17

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 6:56:04 AM

BrutalAntipathy

Posts: 412
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

I am impressed to see so many people admit that they are judgemental here. Everyone is, but most deny it.

Being the misanthrope that I am, I start with the assumption that everyone is absolute scum that is too stupid or ignorant to deserve anything other than my contempt, then allow myself to feel joy when the rare gem shines forth and breaks out of that judgement box.

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 18

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 7:11:53 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

Nicely stated, emdoub.

I make judgments regarding people all the time. Sometimes, it helps to keep yhou alive or out of danger. I try to base my judgment based on a period of time learning their thoughts and observing their behaviors but with some people...those that are abrasive or rude or crude or act as if they think they are God/Goddess, etc....it comes rather quickly. When the judgment agrees with their thoughts, then I am "open-minded" and/or "very accepting". If it doesn't, then much the same as when my opinion on issues disagrees with someone, I am a narrow-minded/ non-compassionate/ idiotic/ pick your adjective type of person.

(in reply to emdoub)

Post #: 19

RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 7:28:07 AM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

To me there is a difference between making a judgement about an individual on whether or not we wish to continue dealing with that person, ie i don't want to spend my time with someone who will consistently lie to me and using that judgement to declare a person's future, ie a person who does X will never amount to anything. The one is a necessary skill to live successfully in this world, the other is outside the realm my expertise, i can't know how someone will turn out.

That being said, there is a mentality that sprang up a few years ago, perpetuated by school systems, media and many other avenues that one is not allowed to do anything that would "hurt" the self-esteem of another by making any sort of judgement call about that person. That mindset is demonstrated by such ridiculous measures as telling teachers they can't mark papers in red because red hurts the student's feelings or can't fail a student because that would hurt their self image.

This to me ends up just hurting the individual because in the real world, your boss, your co-workers are going to make judgements and base your salary, your continued employment, among other things on how you perform. And only by hearing how you are really performing can one make changes to improve oneself. So never giving someone an accurate picture of his/her perfomance based on set standards is counterproductive, and actually hurts far more than person's self esteem. So by not not "judging" a person, in my opinion, you are actually hurting them in the long run.

* editted because i'm really tired and missed putting some words in that were needed.

< Message edited by heartfeltsub -- 11/14/2006 7:50:44 AM >

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 20

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