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RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 7:38:02 AM   
BDSM05478


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quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub

This came up in another thread, but rather than contribute further to the topic drift, I brought it here.  Things were calming down, but this stuck in my craw - I couldn't let it go by unremarked.

Hmmm... I don't want to quote someone outside of the thread they posted to without permission, and it really doesn't matter who said it - it's been said by lots of people in lots of places.  Apologies to the author if they'd have preferred the attribution.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nunya Bidness

this is why i try not to have "opinions" about anyone personally; they are really judgements on ones character in the end.


Oh, how did 'judgemental' get to be a bad word, and an awful thing to do to someone?

If someone can't make judgements about me, how can they decide that I'm wonderful, or not their type, or a flaming asshole? 

I use judgements all the time about people.  This person, I judge to be distasteful to me and unsafe socially - they're not welcome in my house.  That person, I judge to be a kindred soul, so we have lunch every week, just to have an afternoon of "us, surrounded by them".  Another, I judge to be goodhearted, but self-destructive - so while I wish them the best, and like them just fine, I've gotta distance myself, so as to be elsewhere when they go >splat<.

Simply put, I have no idea of how I'd live my life without making judgements, and trusting my judgement, and accepting the consequences when I make a mistake in my  judgements.

If someone is not allowed to judge people, how can they decide between me and some other HNG to be their next try at a d/s relationship?  Without judgement, it'd have to be on a first come, first served basis.  (In which case, I wanna be first, eh?  But I'd prefer to be served before I come.)

Many people have attempted to insult me by calling me judgemental.  I tend to surprise them by thanking them - I'm glad that it shows when I have judgement, and use it. 

I'd hate to be thought of as having no judgement, after all.

Midnight Pontificator


actually I am the original poster of that statement. My faith is very importent to me and i ment that statement to reflect "Judge not let ye be judged yourself" way off thinking. Yes we must make judgements but i TRY very hard to follow "if you can not say something nice, at least try to word it nicely" but ultimitly what works for one does not work for all.

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RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 7:39:46 AM   
darksdesire


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There is a big difference between using one's judgement and discernement to evaluate others, and using one's judgement to condemn, ridicule, or disparage others.   i agree, we are using our judgement constantly.  There are many people i simply won't allow into my life, who i judge as being someone who simply would not add value or benefit to my life.  i agree with  Lordandmaster.  Many people make quick and hasty judgements, based on their own prejudices, on sketchy information that is then filled in with their own projections,  and on their belief that their opinion is the correct one, and those who don't agree are asshole idots who should crawl under a rock and simply stay there.  That doesn't seem like judgement.  That seems like many things, but not judgement.

A large section of the population judge homosexuals as immoral, and condemn them to hell.  Many would judge us as sicko, wierd, deviant perverts who are a danger to society.  Those people who would do this will valiantly defend their right to make such judgements based on "morality" and "principles", and "protecting the moral fibre of America" sort of thing.  There is a fine line between judgement and discrimination, and all of us are susceptable to crossing that line. 

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RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 7:43:53 AM   
Kalira


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quote:

Positive judgements are impossible without negative judgements. 

I will not argue that; nor will I argue that good judgements and bad judgements are necessary to growth.

you asked why the word itself seemed to be such a bad word; my answer is that because many have come to see it as something that is negative; a hinderance to growth.

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RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 9:19:32 AM   
toservez


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People judge other people on everything. From the person as a whole, specific qualities or actions. It is human nature, some may call judgments other may call it opinions, but we are making conclusions on people from small and petty things to the person on the whole.

The big problem in Western society is that these judgments are not  just the way it is type things but that there is a constant and way too often public attempt to judge ourselves superior to other people by pointing out their flaws that we do not have or perceive to have. It becomes all about the person judging and not just processing information internally. This is just not a very good moral place to be and provokes justifications in a person that can be just plain hurtful, vindictive and wrong.

We all judge other people it just depends on what length and why we are doing so. The problem is we are the judge and jury of one and when it is done for reasons other then if I want to interact, protect ourselves or open up with another person but when it is done out of makes us feel superior to another and/or to justify actions on our part that we probably would not want done to us by another.



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RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 9:39:57 AM   
BDSM05478


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toserve, very well put.

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"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

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RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 9:54:44 AM   
BrokenDoll


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Judgmental is considered to some digree a bad thing.. it is makeing an opinion of someone without haveing all the facts I think

< Message edited by BrokenDoll -- 11/14/2006 9:58:18 AM >


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RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 11:09:55 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


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This is what I wrote in September, 2005 on this subject...on these boards.  (gotta love that search function!)
I haven't changed My *opinion*.
BTW, the drunk driving scenario was used based upon another poster, as he had given that as an example on that same thread... It still applies as an example.

quote:

Absolutely, I am judgemental. We all have a responsibility to make personal judgements about anything that concerns ourselves or those in our care. We can also judge what is going on the world around us and choose to take or not to take action to do something about anything we feel strongly about.
Remember: Judgements are not always bad. Judgement can be good, also. Somehow, it got a very negative spin.
I don't tell people if they are right or wrong about something, if it is something that is an individual call. i.e. not harmful to society as a whole. I simply try to put forth My opinion and My reasoning. It is up to that individual to either agree or disagree. It is also up to Me to determine if I want to continue to associate with a person I feel may be harmful in some way. I have several freinds who think it is okay to drink and drive. I spent one night with two other friends caravaning them all home, safely. My judgement. I love them, and I have made My position on this known. They are not only breaking the law but they are endangering themselves and others. I will no longer go to the karaoke bar with them. Does it matter? Not really. Two of them have lost their licenses and spent time in our "Tent City" for extreme DUI. My judgement is that their judgement isn't very good in this area.
I have known many people who feel I am being judgemental when I disagree with something. What is interesting is that they are being judgemental by telling Me I should not have that opinion in the first place. It's okay to have an opinion, and to share it. It is not okay to tell anyone that they have no right to that opinion, or that they are a fool for thinking in any certain way. Caveat: Anyone who drives drunk is not thinking.
I could not and would not live a "judgement free" life. I just don't force My "judgements" down other people's throats. At least, I try not to.
Sorry, Bob. I got off on the drunk driving tangent, because it is really an excellent example of how open to some judgement we all should be. 




_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


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RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 11:52:10 AM   
LadyHugs


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Dear emdoub, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Judgement is used every day and a lot during that day.  It is having what is before us, such as evidence, circumstances, things, words and visual and or other experiences, skills, knowledge and such that we gather from our youth throughout our lives.
 
Based on our (in a general sense) personal experiences, knowledge and such; with what is before us, such as evidence, words, circumstances and the like; we (in a general sense) do judge.  Judging is a 'in process' status in my mind's eyes; borrowing from my own experience as a judge.  It is weighing the qualities, the merits, the plus and minus of the criteria of what is under the class and or the case being judged.  Often in the field of law, it is known as elements which constitutes a specific crime.  In other judging fields, such as in equestrian classes, the elements which constitutes the best qualities exhibited by the equestrian and the equine.
 
To be a judge/Judge, it requires a personal effort as well as the duties and responsibility as a Judge/judge; to set aside personal bias, prejudice, association and or friendship in order to sit as a Judge/judge.  However difficult, I can tell you as a judge --personal side will bleed into the professional side, because we (in general sense) rely on our own personal experiences, knowledge, skills and the power of reasoning/logic.
 
In the legal system, Judges do have the ability to reverse a decision, to override a decision and to obstain or not judge at all.  In a jury trial, it proffers more fair judgment in any case over a judge only case.  In the BDSM (in general) theater of things; the majority of individuals do their best to approach others with an open mind and will also retain their initial prejudices, bias, opinions, personal tastes, personal perspectives and judgmental mannerisms and continue with them, until they find a good reason to reverse the original decision. Thus, judging and being a judge is a human's trait.
 
We, in a general sense always are in the process of judging and or making judgments and or judge, to which is more final in my mind's eyes.  From judging what to wear, how to respond to a question and or how to receive a question, comment, statement, letter, etc., from others.  So, how things are presented is just as important as the person presenting it.
 
It is more important in my mind's eye how the 'spirit' of intent and or the cause and affect/effect come into play; which sways my personal judgments and thus influences my stand as a person as well as my stand as a dominant and or my stand as a member of the community at large.
 
The judgment should be based on the elements and not the person as another human being.  Unfortunately, it is difficult to not make it personal if another insists on making it so.  It requires effort to maintain on the focus of the topic, the case, the class or anything presented before us, (in a general sense).  As far as making judgments about individuals themselves; it really cannot be controlled by humanity.  If there is a change in judgment, it is usually inspired and not forced.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 
 

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RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 12:28:25 PM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I haven't found *judgemental* behaviour helpful or positive and don't like being around people that display it.

* All druggies are arse-holes*.....* All down and outs are losers*.......All children that wear hoodies are thugs*....

Those phrases aren't judgemental so much as they are prejudicial - judging someone because of membership in a group, rather than on their individual merits.

Now, I've gotta confess to being somewhat prejudiced, but I do strive to judge individuals as individuals - the groups they can be lumped into may make me wary, but I was taught at a young age to never be rude about my prejudices.

Particularly racial prejudice - that was stressed quite a bit by my Grandfather.  As he explained clearly, being rude to someone because of their racial background was unacceptable - after all, it's not like anyone would ever be anything but Irish by choice.

Midnight Writer



Well, that depends. If prejudice is an opinion not based in reason or experience......then yes......but many people do have experience of people that fall into those *groups* and still *judge* in this way.

agirl





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RE: Judging others... - 11/14/2006 12:38:19 PM   
RiotGirl


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i made a judgement about my astronomy teacher.  I thought he was an uptight, anal retentive, cant teach dickhead. 

but i kept an open mind.  So far i seem to be wrong (mostly).  He seems to have loosened up and is pretty funny and a good guy. 

i also made a judgement on my speech teacher.  A know it all, frowdy, dumpy, librarian sort who lacked life experience, who oddly seemd to think it was okay for her to get high on her horse - because she's a prof.

so far i'm correct. 

My other teachers, came off well - and i put better judgements on them and so far i am correct.

No matter what i think, i always remember that i can be wrong.  I treat my speech teacher as i do my other teachers and i wait for her to prove me right or wrong. 

I think others need to realise that just because "you" place a judgement on some one does not make "you" correct. 

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RE: Judging others... - 11/17/2006 4:05:36 PM   
SirGordonslil


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funny thing is, if you make and state good judgments about people others think the world of you and that you may have good judge of character, and tend to trust your judgment, but the minute you make a bad judgment which may be correct in your understanding or in regards to the person you are judging, then you're the worst person in the world.
personally i just trust my instincts, i don't care if no one likes my judgments, i make them for me and for my own wellbeing. if others hear my judgments, they can take it anyway they like.. im not going to loose sleep over it..lol
~~people are just too sensative these days~~

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RE: Judging others... - 11/17/2006 6:31:28 PM   
MistressDolly


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Being judgmental imo is different from having perceptions.  Judgmental people live a life of constant awareness-- awareness of others shortcomings, that is.  They define others based on their own preconceptions and biases, never seeing more than their own side of things.
 
_________________________
We do not see things as they are, we see things as We Are.
-The Talmud
Whatever you think--so you shall become.
-Jaye Morris, Curator (Bud.)
 

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RE: Judging others... - 11/17/2006 6:53:09 PM   
bignipples2share


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Fast Reply:
Everyone judges everything, some judge themselves harder than they do others, sometimes the reverse. Some make good judgement, some bad. We're not to the point where we've all had lobotomies and then little chips inserted into our brains, conditioning us all wear the same outfit, eat and drink the same foods, and watch and listen to the same program over and over on tv/radio for umpteen years. We'd never know that the program got tiresome 20 years ago. There would be no movies, no books, why read them or watch anything new. Everything we do requires judgement, people included. Our judgements are based on our past, the world as we see it and the parts we've been exposed to, as well as what we see for our futures. Some judgements are quick and some can be harsh.
If he shows up for a first meet, has green and rotten teeth, dirty wrinkled clothes and he stinks, my judgement is, there isn't going to be a repeat peformance and he's not getting a kiss upon my departure, which probably will be in about < looking at watch figuring out seconds >
~Big

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RE: Judging others... - 11/17/2006 10:39:37 PM   
emdoub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly

Being judgmental imo is different from having perceptions.  Judgmental people live a life of constant awareness-- awareness of others shortcomings, that is.  They define others based on their own preconceptions and biases, never seeing more than their own side of things.


This does, I believe, epitomize the popular/typical perception of judgemental people. 

If it were true, of course, those judgemental people would all be loners - they'd never have any friends or people to look up to, because all they would see would be the negative - and everyone (even me) has some flaws.

It is true, though, that it's tough to get away from our preconceptions and biases, and equally difficult to see things not from our own side.  However, to view some people as totally lacking in these abilities is a tad judgemental, don't you think?  Unless, of course, they're viewed as individuals, and simply display the total inability to rise beyond personal bias or see another's side to a question.  Then they're individuals, and not just part of a group one thinks of as judgemental, eh?

Or are we thinking that the people we agree with are perceptive, while the people we disagree with are judgemental?

(I'm really not trying to pick on MistressDolly here - I know very little about her, just this post.  It's the perception/concept I'm trying to dispute.)

quote:

We do not see things as they are, we see things as We Are.
-The Talmud

Cute phrase, with more than a seed of truth to it - but taken at face value, it'd have me thinking that the Republican President and the Democratic State Legislature of Minnesota were all Libertarian.  That cute sub in the corner would seem awfuly domly, too.  Perhaps perception isn't as simple as the quote would seem to indicate.
quote:

Whatever you think--so you shall become.
-Jaye Morris, Curator (Bud.)

Again, more than just a seed of truth to this one.  Again, not to be taken at face value - reality is a bit more complex than this would  seem to indicate.  Or I'd become a remarkably sexy femsub, looking for a DomlyDom with 25 extra pounds, poor teeth, and long chestnut hair - 'cause I think of her middlin' frequent.

Midnight Writer


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RE: Judging others... - 11/18/2006 12:08:55 AM   
MistressDolly


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I think you're taking it to an extreme in saying: "those judgmental people would all be loners - they'd never have any friends or people to look up to, because all they would see would be the negative".   They may have lots of friends and people they look to, or they may only have a few.  Who knows.  But to say they would be alone and have no one seems extreme.  Yes, I know we all have flaws and shortcomings; it's the human condition.  Hell you should see all my shortcomings multiply during PMS week.  Let me tell you honey. Do I  think it's tough for  people to "get away from their preconceptions and biases, and equally difficult to see things not from their own side."  no, not when you keep an open and tolerant mind.    Yes, you're right  I am judging those people that are judgmental.  Einstein. :)  But imo, the distinction lies in the motivation and intent behind the judging.  We all judge but when one judges people and things without having enough information, when they judge out of hostile condemnation, when they judge in the upmanship game--that is the judging I talking about.   Does that make sense?  Why of course not.  Not to you, at least. ps. You don't have to worry about feeling like I'm feeling like you're picking on me.  I don't.  In the end, it doesn't really matter all that much anyway. nite Midnight Write

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RE: Judging others... - 11/18/2006 12:30:01 AM   
MistressDolly


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ORIGINAL: emdoub


quote:

We do not see things as they are, we see things as We Are.
-The Talmud

Cute phrase, with more than a seed of truth to it - but taken at face value, it'd have me thinking that the Republican President and the Democratic State Legislature of Minnesota were all Libertarian.  That cute sub in the corner would seem awfuly domly, too.  Perhaps perception isn't as simple as the quote would seem to indicate.
quote:

Whatever you think--so you shall become.
-Jaye Morris, Curator (Bud.)

Again, more than just a seed of truth to this one.  Again, not to be taken at face value - reality is a bit more complex than this would  seem to indicate.  Or I'd become a remarkably sexy femsub, looking for a DomlyDom with 25 extra pounds, poor teeth, and long chestnut hair - 'cause I think of her middlin' frequent.

Midnight Writer



I don't see those quotes as idealistic.  I believe our outside world is a direct reflection of our inner state of consciousness.  Ah, to you they are idealistic.  To me they aren't.  It doesn't really matter anyway.  It's all relative. 

Here's another quote to have fun with:
"Hostile people live in a hostile world.  Loving people live in a loving world.  Same world." D. Wyner.

Nite Nite Writer

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RE: Judging others... - 11/18/2006 1:38:07 AM   
bignipples2share


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I'm still not kissing that guy with the green rotting teeth good night!

~Big

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RE: Judging others... - 11/18/2006 6:51:37 PM   
MistressDolly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bignipples2share

I'm still not kissing that guy with the green rotting teeth good night!

~Big


******smile******
Aw, live a little.  Never know  - - might sweep you off yer feet.


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RE: Judging others... - 11/19/2006 3:39:50 AM   
bignipples2share


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly

quote:

ORIGINAL: bignipples2share

I'm still not kissing that guy with the green rotting teeth good night!

~Big


******smile******
Aw, live a little.  Never know  - - might sweep you off yer feet.



Nooooo LOL, I just can't go there

~Big

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RE: Judging others... - 11/19/2006 9:26:43 AM   
Nosathro


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Tal and greetings
 
I have not posted for some time but this topic does interests me.  Yes, we all make judgements about everything and everybody.   However, in most cases our judgements are negative.  We look to find some fault with someone and then ridcule them for it.  Being Gorean I have been subjected to this.  IIt is true that I have found some people in this lifestyle who I would rather not be around.  That is my view and I tend to keep it to myself.  We are not going to like everyone, but at least we can learn to respect them.
 
I wish you well
 
Nosathro

_____________________________

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