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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/12/2006 8:15:42 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
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quote:

And that is ALSO a natural human emotion and you are not a bad person for feeling this way.


I know I'm not a bad person but I think one of our responsibilities in life is to discipline ourselves not to allow destructive thoughts to flow through us..when some issues come up, sometimes its hard to actually know what you're feeling or where its coming from.

I'm feeling quite conflicted in this area at the moment, I wish I knew the outcome already..then its just gonna come down to

1. He gets jail time - I can breath again and feel as though some justice has finally been done, however no amount of jail time could ever make up for what has happened.

2. He doesn't get jail time - I can stop secretly wishing for him to be punished in some way and come to terms with the fact that I shouldn't be seeking justice in an unjust world.

Addition:

Just to add, this all went on 20 years ago, its not like I lay in bed and think about it at night. Its all so very long ago, I came to terms with a lot of things regarding him a very very long time ago, I moved on with my life, got it together and started a really rewarding life in which I am really happy. It's almost cruel that this has come up now, I had given up any hope of any justice around what happened occurring a long time ago....and when this came up..... it just made me think about the possibility for justice again...life is cruel....cruel cruel cruel *grin*

< Message edited by slavejali -- 11/12/2006 8:30:15 PM >

_____________________________

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/12/2006 9:15:48 PM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Destructive thoughts are fine!  Also natural!  In fact, it is sometimes good to let these little fantasies play out in our minds.  Like you emotions, these are merely emotional expressions.  They are healthy and natural.

When thoughts become obsessive, all consuming, or worse - turn to actions ... THAT is not a healthy expression of the emotions.

Someone said earlier that you need to forgive him to release these thoughts and emotions ... I am not sure how I feel about that ... I think there are possibly other ways to release, and that is but one of them.  But on the nature of forgiveness ... you may want to forgive yourself!  There are a myriad of emotional responses to this entire situation, and even though we may know better rationally ... it doesn't help release them.  You may be feeling guilty or hurt that you let yourself GET in that situation.  YOu may be feeling guilty that you have violent thoughts towards him (or the situation) ... you may be feeling frustrated over all of this getting dredged up again when you thought it was so far passed .... but here it is.  And all of these emotions and expressions and thoughts are okay.  And you can forgive yourself for feeling this way.

I still think you will need to do something to release it all .... like a rite of passage ... but this one is not a rite of adulthood, or a rite of initiation, but more a recognition of the trauma and the desire for moving past it.  One of my suggestions was a party ... another good one was the picture on the punching bag.  Forgiveness is another (directed at him or yourself or both) provided that you come through on your feelings and not just 'forgive' in terms of lip service (that would only lead to a kind of disjointedness).

ANyway, I know you will do well.  I have read many of your posts over time and see that you are a very balanced person.  Now, here's the groovy part.  When you are a balanced person (as I believe you to be) ... it does not mean that you will not, or are not allowed to be 'out of balance' sometimes.  Again, that human experience thing not only makes STAYING perpetually balanced an impossible task ... but if we were, we would lose so much of the richness of life's experiences.  But .... when you are, or have been a balanced person ... you know what balance feels like and you are well equiped to right the scales once again and return to a state of peace (lol ... only to wait for the next experiences to come along).

fergus

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/12/2006 9:47:13 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		Hello A/all,

I wanted to respond to this thread by first saying that I agree with fergus.  You will feel what you feel until you stop feeling it.

On the subject of forgiveness, simply making the comment that you forgive somebody does not, to me, qualify as forgiving them.

There is an emotional connection you have to the person who wronged you.  Whether this is love or hate or bloodthirsty desire for revenge or whatever, you are still bonded to this person on an emotional level. And in being bonded to them on that emotional level, you are under their power.

Forgiveness, to me, is accepting what they have done to you and severing the emotional connection.  This means more than simply not wishing them to die, or wishing them well, or whatever.  It is more that mind space where you really could not care one way or the other whether they are well or not, apart from a general like or dislike of humanity.

I am not certain how a person gets there.  But I would recommend you look within yourself to find that emotional connection, and then figure out a way to sever it once and for all.

At which point you will be free to move forward with your life.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/13/2006 11:44:53 AM   
subjected2006


Posts: 248
Joined: 1/20/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you..
may I suggest to never thank the assholes that wronged you for making you stronger..
it wasnt them..it was you that had the grit to get through it.
hugs..it is frustrating when someone who is a real creep seems to lead a charmed life..
but try to remember that as sneaky and devious as someone can get..there will always be someone sneakier and more devious and will stop them in their tracks.
Like Sissytoserve says..it's a matter of time...
and while we wait..
Living well is the best revenge..and it always taste good because it's fresh squoze..LOL



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a rose is a rose..

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/13/2006 12:29:53 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
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quote:

I am not certain how a person gets there.  But I would recommend you look within yourself to find that emotional connection, and then figure out a way to sever it once and for all.


That's easier said than done. He is the father of my children. I am going to be bound to him energetically till the day I die. Maybe that is the conflict I feel, somehow inside me I feel by totally servering the connection, or even feeling badly about him, because he is the other part of my children, that it would somehow effect them energetically or something.

quote:

You may be feeling guilty or hurt that you let yourself GET in that situation. 


At the age I was when I got entangled in that relationship, I think I did the best I could. Looking back, I agree wholeheartedly with some of the comments submissives and slaves had made about their submissiveness actually attracting abusers, and because at the time you are not life educated, you fall easily into their snare. There is nothing I could have done about that, it happened. However, what was done to me back then really holds no tie on me emotionally or mentally anymore (still have some physical reminders lol)..what does catch me, is what it has done to my children...and I can philosophise and think "Well even my children have their own life path to walk and the experiences they were born into was perfect for them, the childhood traumas they faced was exactly the right thing for them....and these days I pretty much am content with those thoughts....yet there are moment, like the one I'm feeling at the moment, I cannot hold myself blameless energetically for my part in their suffering and the continuance of suffering....just through my participation in the relationship which had them born into it. It's like I want him to be punished for what he has done to my children, more than me.

I wish I never had children...not because I do not love them but just so that I wasn't the vessel that brought souls into this world to suffer.

quote:

But .... when you are, or have been a balanced person ... you know what balance feels like and you are well equiped to right the scales once again and return to a state of peace (lol ... only to wait for the next experiences to come along).


hehe yeah  But its good to go visiting those dark places sometimes, guess this recent event was an open invitation to enter in where I probably shouldn't allow my mind to go...oh well Master always says I jump first think later  but yeah, I've found my center of peace, I know this is just a day trip into some screwed up world and I can return home whenever I choose....

quote:

Living well is the best revenge


So true that


_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/13/2006 1:16:33 PM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		"I cannot hold myself blameless energetically for my part in their suffering and the continuance of suffering....just through my participation in the relationship which had them born into it. It's like I want him to be punished for what he has done to my children, more than me. "

That's what I mean by the posibility of carrying leftover guilt feelings.  You make your choices.  Some will not be informed ones, some will be downright bad ones ... and that makes you human too!  No reason to beat yourself up forever over it.

I wish I never had children...not because I do not love them but just so that I wasn't the vessel that brought souls into this world to suffer. "

Then NO ONE should have children.  Each and every one of us has some suffering in life.  Some more than others.  We all bear the scars, and we all bear the responsibility, and we all bear the ability to love one another as well.  It is not through suffering that we learn and grow ... it is not through NON-suffering that we learn and grow.  It is through the myriad of life's experiences that include all of these things.  Sure, too should your children suffer from time to time.  They HAVE to.  It is also a part of being human.  And that is a wonderful thing.

And about those dark places?  We shall have to revisit them time and again.  Some of the monsters that we place there we will slay.  Others we will keep locked away for a while - knowing we will slay them when we have grown enough.  Others are locked away and we will never even know they are there.

fergus

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/13/2006 6:36:50 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I don't believe in that "karma" B.S.
Look at all the absolute pricks that hit the lottery.
And look at the nice people who get screwed over their entire lives.
I make my own justice and the less cops the better.

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/13/2006 6:40:03 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		lol popeye: are you for hire? (joke)

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/13/2006 6:41:53 PM   
sissifytoserve


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Joined: 8/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I don't believe in that "karma" B.S.


I do...but i don't call it "karma".

Its a universal law of returns.

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/13/2006 6:42:56 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		What goes around comes around hey  

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/14/2006 1:14:18 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
I wish I never had children...not because I do not love them but just so that I wasn't the vessel that brought souls into this world to suffer.


You say you have forgiven him but maybe now it's time you forgave yourself, for whatever part you felt you played in all of this.  There's a certain 'peace' in self-forgiveness.  It would be the best favor you could do for yourself.  The heck with him!
 
Good luck with all of this   
DG

< Message edited by adaddysgirl -- 11/14/2006 1:15:48 AM >

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/14/2006 11:50:50 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Thanks adaddysgirl.

A few people have mentioned self-forgiveness and I have to admit, I didn't really want to read that or take the concept in....but if I'm honest with myself, I do have a personality that has a hard time letting things go when it comes to my own actions. That has its good and bad points. I'm good at taking personal responsibility...that has to be a good thing, yet, I do have a habit of beating myself up until something happens where I feel the situation has been resolved fairly and everything balanced again. So I guess with a major issue like this..there very well could be some elements of self-forgiveness that need to be addressed.

Honestly, I wouldn't even know where to start, it's such a deep chore issue with me, to get past philosophising about it and really forgive myself would be an incredibly hard venture to undertake.

P.S. oh btw his court case got adjourned for another month..lol umm Christmas present maybe? lol

< Message edited by slavejali -- 11/14/2006 11:52:04 AM >

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/14/2006 7:43:05 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline 		i once read a book (can't recall the name now) which basically stated that you really can't forgive others until you forgive yourself first.  Why?  Because in many cases, we feel guilty that we feel so awful toward someone else and that inhibits our ability to really let it all go.
 
i think the basis of the book hinged on first accepting that we are all human and that sometimes, we do things that we later regret.  i don't know if you are religious at all but it did get into the concept that God would forgive us, and would want us to forgive ourselves. 
 
Anyway....i'm sure you'll figure it all out. 
 
Best wishes,
DG

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/14/2006 8:49:13 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline 		First of all having to go through all of this must be very tough so I do wish you the very best as always.

Now on to my little advice rant:

Rule number one: Shit Happens

Rule number two: See rule number one

Look, I have had things happen to me that I would rather not post on an open forum but suffice it to say that I share similar experiences so I can relate. Look... there has been some great advice here. These ARE your feelings and to deny that you feel this way would be to continue the cycle of abuse and guilt. You do not have to forgive yourself because you didn't do anything wrong. Whatever happened (and I imagine that it was horrible) was not your fault. Someone else put you in that situation and your choices (regardless of what they were at the time) were to protect yourself and nothing more.

The most difficult thing that I had to come to grips with was accepting what happened to me is a part of me. I can never actually relive those days and change the circumstances. Actually, it is very lucky for those people that I cannot turn back time because things would have been quite different. All that I am trying to say is that you have no need to find it in your heart to forgive a wrong as long as you do not harbor any type of grudge that continues to fester within yourself. Letting go of an injustice is a very hard thing to do, but you can do it without compromising your own integrity. Realize that what happened was wrong. Understand that it is no longer happening in the present. Accept that it is a part of you and that you can turn it around and use your own experience as something that can help someone else in a similar situation. Brooding about this allows those that harmed you to gain control of you once again and you must be stronger than that.

When I came to grips with what happened to me I was a total mess. I held things inside of me for twenty years until I told someone else and suddenly the flood gates of emotion were opened and out came some of the most violent and horrible thoughts that have ever past through my mind. I do not feel guilty in the least for thinking those things... the only thing that I hope is that no one ever finds the letters that I wrote describing what I wanted to do to them for their crimes.

The point of all of this is really simple: You are human. You feel emotions. This is not a bad thing at all.

I do hope that everything works out the way you would like it to, but if not you can always call Bruno and Knuckles Malone and give them a tire iron and instructions. 

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/14/2006 11:19:44 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

I don't believe in aa Christian god.

I do think there is a divine force.....and there is aa universal law that the things that you do
and do to other always comes back to you.

Could be a week, or longer...but it always does.


Instant karma's gonna get you,
Gonna knock you right on the head.
You better get yourself together,
Pretty soon you're gonna be dead!

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/14/2006 11:32:42 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I don't believe in that "karma" B.S.


I do...but i don't call it "karma".

Its a universal law of returns.


Some simply say "What goes around comes around."

It doesn't really matter a whole lot what we call it. In a nutshell, the negative energy that you emit eventually comes back to you.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)
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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/14/2006 11:46:24 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I don't believe in that "karma" B.S.
Look at all the absolute pricks that hit the lottery...


There have been many cases where winning the lotto eventually proved to be far from a blessing.

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RE: Justice or Revenge? - 11/15/2006 12:15:13 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I don't believe in that "karma" B.S.
Look at all the absolute pricks that hit the lottery.
And look at the nice people who get screwed over their entire lives.
I make my own justice and the less cops the better.


Karma seems as fanciful as saying there is a benigh god in the middle of a famine or an epidemic.

Or maybe all those kids that starve to death are evil little bastards and are getting what they deserve.

I somehow doubt it though.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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