Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 8:49:46 PM)

I was watching CNN with my mother today and they talked about the Haggard story concerning a concept known as "spiritual restoration" which is like a spiritual rehabilitation that can take years. Basically they have a process where the person submits to God, admits they did wrong, and then they humble themselves.

This is a process that the Christian Evangelical Reverend Ted Haggard is going through to make up for his "sin" of homosexuality.


Does anyone believe that a religion can cure someone of being homosexual? I do not think that it is a flaw in someone to be gay personally, the real "sin" is lying about being gay and hurting people because you hate yourself and cannot embrace who you are... which perhaps these myths that homosexuality can be prayed away are harmful because it fosters the belief that homosexuality is a choice, which from all I have read it just isn't

Here is a link to what I am talking about
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20061108-1836-haggard-whatsnext.html



Level -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 8:53:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Does anyone believe that a religion can cure someone of being homosexual?


I don't, it's as ridiculous as hating someone for being gay.
 
Put him through whatever "fixing" they want, as soon as a Brad Pitt look-a-like goes by, brother Haggard's nipples will harden. And that's okay.



juliaoceania -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 8:58:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Does anyone believe that a religion can cure someone of being homosexual?


I don't, it's as ridiculous as hating someone for being gay.
 
Put him through whatever "fixing" they want, as soon as a Brad Pitt look-a-like goes by, brother Haggard's nipples will harden. And that's okay.



Well that happens to me too... that just natural....lol (just kidding).

It is very sad that people feel they have to live in the dark. I have had several very good gay male friends, all were in lifetime death did they part relationships. One died from AIDs in the mid 90s, another from a smoking related cancer when he was 43. The friend that passed when he was 43 had only one male lover his whole entire life, and yet they could not marry and they were together for 17 years... very sad indeed.



justheather -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 8:59:08 PM)

Julia, I met a woman once who told me that after a particular number of years of prayer and repentence she would "be a virgin again" because God would restore her to wholeness. People can rationalize anything.
I think there is a genetic component to homosexuality and don't think it's something you can change about yourself, but if this spiritual process is something that makes it possible for Mr. Haggard to wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and be OK in the eyes of God-as-he-knows-god-to-be, then Im not in a position to say whether or not it's the healthy or honest or right way to go.
I think, and I judge from your post that you probably agree with me on this, that far more people are hurt by people acting out their desires from the closet than would be if people were able to be honest with themselves and their loved-ones about who they are. Unfortunately, some people are raised in an environment where that is just not an option.



Level -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 9:04:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Does anyone believe that a religion can cure someone of being homosexual?


I don't, it's as ridiculous as hating someone for being gay.
 
Put him through whatever "fixing" they want, as soon as a Brad Pitt look-a-like goes by, brother Haggard's nipples will harden. And that's okay.



Well that happens to me too... that just natural....lol (just kidding).

It is very sad that people feel they have to live in the dark. I have had several very good gay male friends, all were in lifetime death did they part relationships. One died from AIDs in the mid 90s, another from a smoking related cancer when he was 43. The friend that passed when he was 43 had only one male lover his whole entire life, and yet they could not marry and they were together for 17 years... very sad indeed.


I'm sorry for your losses; I've had two.... my nephew Stevie, who left here and went to California to try to find acceptance, and one of my all time best friends, Darrin, who died in Houston. Both were gentle and kind and unfailingly decent men, and both suffered at the hand of a hatefullness that I can't understand.



juliaoceania -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 9:13:47 PM)

As justheather stated, on one hand everyone's lifepath is personal, and I certainly should not judge people for trying to make their life better in some way, even though I do not understand it.. it just seems harmful that some religions create an environment where a person can only be self loathing to the point of leading a double life and all the risks this entails for their  wife and other family.

My brother and I had a heated debate about this a couple of days ago, he is a staunch christian conservative.. he tried to tell me that Haggard would be accepted although his sin would not be. In other words he would have to disavow his sexuality to be a part of the flock at my brother's church. We just could not understand the position of the other. My brother will even say that he thinks gay people are born this way, and cannot help it, but that is no excuse. He has several gay friends too that he thinks a lot of their character, so it is not like he is hateful about it.. he just thinks that if they loved god enough they would go without sex and loving relationship... I just do not understand it I guess. That would be like telling me I was not allowed to be hetrosexual[:D]



Level -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 9:21:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

He has several gay friends too that he thinks a lot of their character, so it is not like he is hateful about it.. he just thinks that if they loved god enough they would go without sex and loving relationship... I just do not understand it I guess. That would be like telling me I was not allowed to be hetrosexual[:D]


Exactly. I've tried to use that to get people to understand... "if being straight were the 'crime' and in the same posistion as being gay is now, how would you feel? Would you enjoy being the object of so much hate?".... but still, people can't seem to get past their beliefs.
 
And god loves gay and straight folks enough to not want them to give up sex and loving relationships. [8|] Tell your brother that and give him a big hug.



juliaoceania -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 9:25:37 PM)

I used the example of sending him to an all gay planet where 10% of the people were het and persecuted... he just looked at me with a blank stare and silence ensued...smiles... and then I gave him a hug, even though he is convinced I am possessed by a liberal demon. He called me that once when he was angry and my son thought it was a riot so it is a nickname around here for me[:D]



NeedToUseYou -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 10:02:33 PM)

I think that people can force their behaviour to change. Whether that be because of a belief in a religion, social pressure, etc.. So, I guess it is possible, I don't think it works most of the time. However, I'm sure someone out their has changed their behaviour in relation to their sex habits because of religion. Nuns come to mind, some priests resist their urges(not all). So, It's possible. I don't think the urge is destroyed completely, but repressed so they don't act on it. 



popeye1250 -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 11:13:57 PM)

Boy, those holy rollers do seem to like the ol salami, don't they?
I don't think you can de-program it through prayer or anything else.
That'll last that Haggard guy for about as long as Bill Clinton's "weekly meetings with his spiritual advisors" after he was caught, what,...about 1 week?
Nope, he'll be begging for the heat seeking moisture missle in short order.
Oh, and what is it with that "Heil Hitler Salute" that those holy rollers always do?



DiurnalVampire -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 11:17:23 PM)

Ever wonder why everyone treats homosexuality like its a disease to be cured?  Maye theres some sort of innoculation that the religious types can start offering to new parents to make sure their child doesnt come down with it as well. I dont believe we can force our sexuality to change, we can just bury it and pretend well.  I was playing straight for  alot of years becasue being bi just wasnt acceptable.
Thats all the spiritual cleansing is going to do, give those who choose to go back into hiding a way to convince others they have changed, so that they can cut the grief from their lives.

DV



meatcleaver -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/9/2006 11:21:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Does anyone believe that a religion can cure someone of being homosexual?



No more than it can cure someone of being human.


Eer however....it seems to manage that at times.



LadyEllen -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 2:56:12 AM)

If he really wants to be cured and restored to the love of his "God", then why doesnt he get himself fully castrated (penis included)? That should show sufficient penitence, remove all temptation from his path and enable him to love his "God" more purely, and it doesnt require years - an overnight stay in hospital should do the trick. If money's tight, I wouldnt mind doing it for him for free.

E






MstrssPassion -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 4:09:04 AM)

I don't think so... the way he works his mouth I'm sure he can suck golf balls through garden hoses



ZenrageTheKeeper -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 5:51:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Does anyone believe that a religion can cure someone of being homosexual?


Don't knock it.The only "evidence" that these anti-gay organizations (NARTH, most churches) have of being gay is a choice, is that it can be cured through the use of psychological conditioning through the use of negative stimuli (ie Do it or else).



LotusSong -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 6:25:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Does anyone believe that a religion can cure someone of being homosexual?


And if it could, would one take the cure?



windchymes -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 6:40:03 AM)

That's a really good and deep question, Lotus. 

There are gays out there who do truly hate themselves for their feelings, because they are not ready to deal with the unacceptance and stigma of what coming out would do to them and their families.  I honestly think there are some out there who would take the cure, if one existed.  Since I live in New Jersey, our former governer Jim McGreevy comes to mind, if we are to believe the story he tells of the childhood torment he endured within himself, and later on, pursuing a political career, marrying, having children, but having emotional struggles internally the whole time.  I believe that, had a cure been available when he was young, he may very well have opted for it.

It saddens me that we have to be a society where these people DO go through so much emotional turmoil for their sexual orientation. 



LadyJulieAnn -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 6:47:54 AM)

Is it anything like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFo8NGO4nTA

[:D]




LotusSong -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 6:58:35 AM)

The one thing that helped me understand the inner emotional workings of it all waaay back, was that a Gay person could could not "go straight" anymore than a straight  person could "go gay". 
 
Put yourself into a society where gay was the norm and you  were expected to be gay or be gone.  Think about it.  If you "squick".. you know how they feel in reality. 



LaTigresse -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 7:30:41 AM)

I don't believe anything can change the fact that I think Halle Berry, Charlize Theron and Uma Thurman are steaming hot and Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise, "okay but I don't want them in my bed".
Even though it would make my life one helluvalot easier, I don't want to be cured, fixed, changed.........whatever the religious scaredy cats want to call it.



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