RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality?

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thompsonx -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 7:52:14 AM)
I do not know any gays who want to be "cured" thompson

candystripper -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 8:03:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I was watching CNN with my mother today and they talked about the Haggard story concerning a concept known as "spiritual restoration" which is like a spiritual rehabilitation that can take years. Basically they have a process where the person submits to God, admits they did wrong, and then they humble themselves. This is a process that the Christian Evangelical Reverend Ted Haggard is going through to make up for his "sin" of homosexuality. Does anyone believe that a religion can cure someone of being homosexual? I do not think that it is a flaw in someone to be gay personally, the real "sin" is lying about being gay and hurting people because you hate yourself and cannot embrace who you are... which perhaps these myths that homosexuality can be prayed away are harmful because it fosters the belief that homosexuality is a choice, which from all I have read it just isn't Here is a link to what I am talking about http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20061108-1836-haggard-whatsnext.html What a completely dumb ass idea. 1. i think a P/person's sexual orientation is a fluid thing, sure, but gay is gay. 2. Any lie can hurt. Gay P/pl who are closeted are doing so (IME) mainly to protect T/themselves from discrimation and bashing. When hetero P/pl lie, it can be just as painful. 3. No "rehab" is required; no "cure" is required; being gay isn't a disease. candystripper

Sinergy -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 8:10:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Put him through whatever "fixing" they want, as soon as a Brad Pitt look-a-like goes by, brother Haggard's nipples will harden. And that's okay. I imagine if they chemically or surgically castrate him, he will lose any sexual interest whatsoever. If I was his minister, I might suggest he volunteer for it to "get right with God." Just me and I know I am wrong, but there you go. Sinergy p.s. And I agree with juliaoceania, the problem I have with him is not that he is gay, which I tend to seriously doubt is a "lifestyle choice." The problem I have with him is that his sermons touched thousands, and in them he railed against the evil of homosexuality. In my opinion, people look to their spiritual leaders for guidance and comfort. His words would not comfort somebody who had inner moral conflicts, nor would they serve as a guiding light out of the darkness. p.p.s. I suggest they put him and Rush Limbaugh in the same cabin at Spiwituaw Wehabiwitation Camp.

subfever -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 8:14:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse ...I think Halle Berry, Charlize Theron and Uma Thurman are steaming hot... Mmmm... you have excellent tastes in women... but you left out Gwyneth Paltrow.

Sinergy -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 8:14:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx I do not know any gays who want to be "cured" thompson I was close (we didnt pick out curtains or take windy walks by the ocean) friends with one who did. The moral burden his belief systems placed on his head warred endlessly against his sexual desires, and ultimately resulted in his death. I imagine if there was a cure for it, he would have jumped at the chance. He was also deeply Christian, and honestly believed that if he believed a bit longer, that God would cure him of who he was. I think there are so many things wrong with a belief system which teaches hatred, either inwardly or outwardly directed. Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

LadyEllen -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 8:19:35 AM)
Lets look at Christianity concerning homosexuality; 1) Their male priests wear what can only be described as dresses. Crossdressing is of course not associated with homosexuality per se, although the church suggests it is part of that same axis of evil. 2) The Bible speaks often of the "iron rod of the Lord". This can be inferred to refer to an erect penis - what to make then of their male priests who desire this iron rod to rule over them? 3) The church and Bible are heavily misogynistic, devaluing and demonising women throughout. What does this say about the males who are attracted to lead the church I wonder? It would therefore seem that the church is run by crossdressing submissive gay men who reject women as they dont need them for their particular worship of the iron rod of the Lord. To prevent the discovery of this in the past, they blamed everyone else for these things to place attention on some other person or people. This worked until the media age, and now they are being discovered and forced to adapt. I believe its called hypocrisy. Another good reason to abandon the church and follow Jesus, I'd say. E

Sinergy -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 8:31:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Lets look at Christianity concerning homosexuality; 1) Their male priests wear what can only be described as dresses. Crossdressing is of course not associated with homosexuality per se, although the church suggests it is part of that same axis of evil. 2) The Bible speaks often of the "iron rod of the Lord". This can be inferred to refer to an erect penis - what to make then of their male priests who desire this iron rod to rule over them? 3) The church and Bible are heavily misogynistic, devaluing and demonising women throughout. What does this say about the males who are attracted to lead the church I wonder? It would therefore seem that the church is run by crossdressing submissive gay men who reject women as they dont need them for their particular worship of the iron rod of the Lord. To prevent the discovery of this in the past, they blamed everyone else for these things to place attention on some other person or people. This worked until the media age, and now they are being discovered and forced to adapt. I believe its called hypocrisy. Another good reason to abandon the church and follow Jesus, I'd say. E Kinda says it all in Psalm 23:6 "His rod and his staff, they comfort me" Or Exodus 4:20 "And Moses took the staff of God in his hand" Exodus 4:4 "He put forth his hand, and laid hold of it, and it became a Rod in his hand" I am probably wrong. Sinergy

thompsonx -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 8:55:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Lets look at Christianity concerning homosexuality; 1) Their male priests wear what can only be described as dresses. Crossdressing is of course not associated with homosexuality per se, although the church suggests it is part of that same axis of evil. 2) The Bible speaks often of the "iron rod of the Lord". This can be inferred to refer to an erect penis - what to make then of their male priests who desire this iron rod to rule over them? 3) The church and Bible are heavily misogynistic, devaluing and demonising women throughout. What does this say about the males who are attracted to lead the church I wonder? It would therefore seem that the church is run by crossdressing submissive gay men who reject women as they dont need them for their particular worship of the iron rod of the Lord. To prevent the discovery of this in the past, they blamed everyone else for these things to place attention on some other person or people. This worked until the media age, and now they are being discovered and forced to adapt. I believe its called hypocrisy. Another good reason to abandon the church and follow Jesus, I'd say. E Kinda says it all in Psalm 23:6 "His rod and his staff, they comfort me" Or Exodus 4:20 "And Moses took the staff of God in his hand" Exodus 4:4 "He put forth his hand, and laid hold of it, and it became a Rod in his hand" I am probably wrong. Sinergy In my reading of the bible I have noticed that Jesus spent his entire public life hanging out with his 12 fishing buddies and a hooker. thompson

sissifytoserve -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 9:08:57 AM)
This is just another way for the Christian (A term ill lose loosely) right to prop themselves up after being completely disgraced. It is a complete falacy to say someone can "cure" homosexuality. Especially if it something now proven by science to be completely biological in origin. There are others who "choose" it as a lifestyle choice....then later find thaat they are straight. More importantly.....its none of these hypocrite christians business what people do.

popeye1250 -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 10:12:26 AM)
Now on the other hand Islam has a "cure" for homosexuality.

Level -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 10:22:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: Level Put him through whatever "fixing" they want, as soon as a Brad Pitt look-a-like goes by, brother Haggard's nipples will harden. And that's okay. I imagine if they chemically or surgically castrate him, he will lose any sexual interest whatsoever. If I was his minister, I might suggest he volunteer for it to "get right with God." Just me and I know I am wrong, but there you go. Sinergy p.s. And I agree with juliaoceania, the problem I have with him is not that he is gay, which I tend to seriously doubt is a "lifestyle choice." The problem I have with him is that his sermons touched thousands, and in them he railed against the evil of homosexuality. In my opinion, people look to their spiritual leaders for guidance and comfort. His words would not comfort somebody who had inner moral conflicts, nor would they serve as a guiding light out of the darkness. p.p.s. I suggest they put him and Rush Limbaugh in the same cabin at Spiwituaw Wehabiwitation Camp. Haggard was indeed hypocritical, and that ticks me off as well. As for putting him and El Rushbo in the same cabin, someone tell Haggard to hide his pills.

Archer -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 11:01:26 AM)
While I agree it's not something that is"cureable" (hate the idea that it is something that makes it a nessesity to be cured from). The spread of the "practice" of using religion to supress the desiresis bigger than you might expect. They had a "symposium" on it at one of the MEGA churches locally. Seems that the people most likely to attend are the parents of gay teens, searching for a way to deny they have a gay child and cure their child of any gayness they might have fostered. Converts tend to be extreamly fervent in their beliefs that they have been cured (as with any cured person excited to pass on their cure to any and all), Funny was getting handed a flyer from their group at the Pride Parade." I USED TO BE GAY too but God cured me" Being a Hetero man I laughed and simply kept walking. I do believe that faith can cure or assist in the cure of many things.I also believe that when they leave the program they believe they have been cured and then whenever they have a failing they can blame it on the devil and return to evangilzing on the cure until they convince themselves they have been fortified enough to return to te real world a bit. But I do not believe it is anything near a cure. More like a bastardized verssion of Sexual Addiction treatment with a religious bent. So where it mirrors SA treatment it has some measure of success reprogramming the mind enough to fool many into believing that it has been cured.

LotusSong -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 11:12:50 AM)
(the following is just a funny thought that popped into my head. No gays were injured in th creation of this post.) I think they should set the gay down and tie him in his chair.. and force him to watch Margaret Cho's routine of "Eat your Pussy!" over and over again.

Sinergy -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 11:15:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx In my reading of the bible I have noticed that Jesus spent his entire public life hanging out with his 12 fishing buddies and a hooker. thompson The most important aspect of this, and proof of his ineffable, testosterone-laden, guy-ness, is the fact that he spent all of his time pontificating to other people about what they ought to do. Sinergy

HollyS -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 12:25:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania As justheather stated, on one hand everyone's lifepath is personal, and I certainly should not judge people for trying to make their life better in some way, even though I do not understand it.. it just seems harmful that some religions create an environment where a person can only be self loathing to the point of leading a double life and all the risks this entails for their wife and other family. That's I think one of the main problem with many organized religions -- that what's preached from the pulpit is a one-size-fits-all irrefutable answer to fix whatever ails you. I can't think of any problem for which one solution would work for every single person, but for me, faith is about asking questions rather than thinking one has all the answers. quote: My brother and I had a heated debate about this a couple of days ago, he is a staunch christian conservative.. he tried to tell me that Haggard would be accepted although his sin would not be. In other words he would have to disavow his sexuality to be a part of the flock at my brother's church. We just could not understand the position of the other. My brother will even say that he thinks gay people are born this way, and cannot help it, but that is no excuse. He has several gay friends too that he thinks a lot of their character, so it is not like he is hateful about it.. he just thinks that if they loved god enough they would go without sex and loving relationship... You know, it floors me that it was the gay sex that brought Haggard down from his pastorship while he was basically still okay in the eyes of his church when he came out with his first excuse. "I was only buying meth!" ????? I WAS ONLY BUYING METH??? So buying crystal meth is perfectly forgiveable and doesn't alienate one from G-d in any way, but let another man touch your hoo hoo willie and it's off to the fire pits for you? I wonder what it was like for him... trying to decide how much he could realistically keep hidden, wondering how long it would be until he was found out, then finally realizing he'd been caught and there was nothing to do but admit it and fall on the mercy of other "good Christian men"? Talk about a Come to Jesus moment. Oh well, maybe it's not really his fault after all. Mark Driscoll, one of the "good Christian men" referred to above places blame for Haggard's behavior squarely where it belongs: on Haggard's wife. From his blog... "Most pastors I know do not have satisfying, free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not uncommon to meet pastors’ wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband’s sin, but she may not be helping him either." Because as we all know, it makes perfect sense for a man to have sex with another *man* because he's turned off by his boring ugly wife, and not because he's gay. ~Holly

Sinergy -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 12:40:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HollyS Because as we all know, it makes perfect sense for a man to have sex with another *man* because he's turned off by his boring ugly wife, and not because he's gay. I read that a bit differently. It sounded like he said that Haggard had to have sex with men because his wife wouldnt put out for him. So many religions on this planet place the blame for the weakness of men squarely on women. Buddha complained that the time he spent living with the prostitute distracted him from attaining Nirvana. Hrm. It always fascinates me when person A blames their own personal failings (in their own mind, of course) on person or situation B. Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

smeller -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 12:41:47 PM)
Hi. i agree with you. How can you cure something that is not sick. It's pretending to be otherwise that's condemnable.

mnottertail -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 12:46:11 PM)
How sexist is that? Are you implying that only men put out? Well, come to think of it, I may not be a pushover but I can be had...... Ron

Sinergy -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 12:49:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well, come to think of it, I may not be a pushover but I can be had...... Since you can be had, I wanted to point out that somewhere in Colorado there is a male prostitute in search of a new John... -- Sinergy

mnottertail -> RE: Spiritual Restoration a Cure Homosexuality? (11/10/2006 12:53:12 PM)
Sin, I thought it was Art......... I think I must have already done had my spirit saved in a drawer somewhere, cause I only make the beast with the girlies. To bad it didn't work out for those two, though. I thought they made a cute couple. Ron

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