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I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit - 10/31/2006 7:17:22 AM

dvart

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Joined: 10/26/2006
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There are some "submissives" whose profiles read like this "I'm an independent woman, I won't be a doormat, I won't do anything you ask unless I want to and sometimes (at a time of my own choosing) I will ORDER you to tie me up in such a way as I have predefined in detail." (OK I am exaggerating a little) I complete understand, because I certainly wouldn't want to submit, but isn't it a bit misleading for someone like this to describe themselves as a "submissive". Doesn't submissive imply more than a need to be tied up, such as wanting to SUBMIT to someone?

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RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:22:09 AM

mstrjx

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In certain circles, an independant 'not a doormat' woman is highly desired. They are also more difficult to obtain because they need someone dominant enough to be able to cast a shadow even over them.

Of course the 'topping from the bottom' portion is not desireable, but even with the type of person I mentioned above, she would be smart enough to recognize that if she were with the best dominants she wouldn't feel the need to try.

Yes, they wish to submit. But their needs are higher than the norm.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 2

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:22:24 AM

MsKatHouston

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From: Houston, TX
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It is possible the submissive wants to submit to someone not just anyone and they have particular standards as to who and how. Most of them will submit freely and with joy when they find the right person but will not be taken advantage of or submit to a myriad of nameless, faceless strangers on the net. I prefer submissives like that. It means they are discerning and intelligent but not necessarily less submissive.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 3

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:29:23 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Here is the deal, some of us submissives get emails saying things like "Get on your knees bitch", and when we do not respond to these emails then we get told we are not real and true. We read profiles of doms that state that we will be expected to submit ASAP to them completely, including things like giving up custody of our wee ones.. you know, way out there stuff.

Many of us are independent, intelligent, talented individuals that have no problem running our lives.... submissive does not equal incompetent and in need of a dominant to think for us.

I am one of those independent sort of "not a doormat" kinda submissives. I found someone who enjoys me this way. My Daddy finds no contradiction in dominating me, in fact he rather enjoys my power being given over to him. I am very submissive to him. I tend to believe submissives should match themselves up with a dominant that thinks much the same way they do so submitting is not a terrible ordeal day to day, and that way submission does not become a test and it just is a natural expression of who we are. There are enough things to submit to that we will not like to jump into a relationship with a dom that is completely wrong for us.

Some dominants believe they should be the one to decide if they are suitable for a submissive, that is not true, we have the power to control whom we submit to, and submissive does not mean not able to make choices, nor does it mean that we should not enjoy and be fulfilled by our relationships

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to dvart)

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RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:32:55 AM

dvart

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Joined: 10/26/2006
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I'm all for high standards, discretion, setting limits and not hanging out with just anyone (some of us Doms have standards too). But my point wasn't about high standards and limits. To put it more clearly: if someone just has a kink to be tied up AND wants control the time,place and method where this will be done AND shows no signs whatsoever of wanting to submit, then is such a person really a submissive ? Ok they might secretly yearn to submit, but lets keep things simple.

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

Post #: 5

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:34:19 AM

MsKatHouston

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That sounds more like a bottom to me. But I don't think there is an option for bottom only on here. (could be wrong) So, in such cases, one probably has to delve a bit deeper into exactly what the person is looking for in terms of control.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 6

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:34:31 AM

toservez

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From: All over now in Minnesota
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It is about finding a match. A person of which you described is maybe not for people wanting a significant D/s relationship but that is fine. There are people that want that type a person over a person wanting a deep D/s life. To each their own.

Personally I would think a profile like that is refreshing. You know how a person like that stands and can choose to write or not. For people who are looking we are all looking to fufill our needs and to some that is just physical. To honesty and knowing of one self should be aplauded and not look at as there is something missing.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

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RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:34:56 AM

mstrjx

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Joined: 11/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

I'm all for high standards, discretion, setting limits and not hanging out with just anyone (some of us Doms have standards too). But my point wasn't about high standards and limits. To put it more clearly: if someone just has a kink to be tied up AND wants control the time,place and method where this will be done AND shows no signs whatsoever of wanting to submit, then is such a person really a submissive ? Ok they might secretly yearn to submit, but lets keep things simple.

Oh, that's different. That's a bottom. They just want to play. You can find those at public scenes. In private, they are called 'bedroom submissives'.

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 8

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:35:31 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

There are some "submissives" whose profiles read like this "I'm an independent woman, I won't be a doormat, I won't do anything you ask unless I want to and sometimes (at a time of my own choosing) I will ORDER you to tie me up in such a way as I have predefined in detail." (OK I am exaggerating a little) I complete understand, because I certainly wouldn't want to submit, but isn't it a bit misleading for someone like this to describe themselves as a "submissive". Doesn't submissive imply more than a need to be tied up, such as wanting to SUBMIT to someone?

I can sympathize to a certain extent...having met several submissives who stated something like the above and who, despite what Ms. Kat says, were not this way because they were discerning but because they really wanted to believe they were submissive when they were not. Sort of like my oldest unmentionable who swears she wants a strong man but challenges the one she has every single day to prove his strength. As has been noted in a slightly different post...constant challenge to my dominance and having to prove it over and over again isn't where it is for me anymore.

The above doesn't mean that I disagree with MsKat. I do agree with her that with some of these submissives, their statement that they are independent and "not a doormat" or that they have "90 percent of their lives together" means that they will not just submit to anyone who presents as dominant, they won't be abused and will stand up to it when it is tried on them, they won't be manipulated or wrongdoing within the relationship simply because he is "the Dom" won't be glossed over, or they don't need rescuing. Personally, I like these submissives. If the submissive will submit to any dominant, then what makes you any more special than someone else...and how will you ever know for certain that you did not just happen by at the right time?

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 9

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:37:20 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

I'm all for high standards, discretion, setting limits and not hanging out with just anyone (some of us Doms have standards too). But my point wasn't about high standards and limits. To put it more clearly: if someone just has a kink to be tied up AND wants control the time,place and method where this will be done AND shows no signs whatsoever of wanting to submit, then is such a person really a submissive ? Ok they might secretly yearn to submit, but lets keep things simple.

Maybe they want to control the scene until trust is established

I get the feeling you are addressing one profile, and not a lot of different ones. I do not think there is a choice for "bottom" when one fills out their profile, perhaps she is a bottom, perhaps she is just fearful because she is a novice. I have not read gobs of submissive profiles, but I have not seen one that read that she wanted to control a scene. Isolated cases do not make great threads in my opinion, because there is not enough instances to make it a good broad discussion...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 10

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:41:15 AM

dvart

Posts: 110
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Some dominants believe they should be the one to decide if they are suitable for a submissive, that is not true, we have the power to control whom we submit to, and submissive does not mean not able to make choices, nor does it mean that we should not enjoy and be fulfilled by our relationships

But I entirely agree that that such a dominant is low life, that a sub is always entitled to respect, that everyone has the right to be independent (unless they freely choose not to). But I repeat my point - if you simply want to be tied up and show no signs of wanting to submit are you really a submissive?

< Message edited by dvart -- 10/31/2006 7:43:22 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 11

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:42:57 AM

slavejlb

Posts: 446
Joined: 5/19/2006
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and i wonder if dom/masters what to real dom;s most of the ones i fine are just looking for a free whore, there is no play it is suck my dick or spread them. ( oh rah) sex is suppose to be the last thing, not the first last and somewhere in the middle.
Some slave not all like to be taken to the edge, when i think of sceneing, or playing i remember times i was covered in hot melt wax, sensually painted on or pour on, not hoo drop drop here or there. but cover from head to toe, laying a layer of wax letting the heat seep into the skin, and once those senses have been awoken, feeling the edge of a knife gliding along my skin, feeling the prickling of the tip run marks and removing the wax slow rhymaticly, letting the knife tickle just the skin waking the nevers. When i think of flogging it is not on or two hits and here suck on me, but slow meaningful movement as though the Master become an artist and his slave back is the cavans. each hit awaken as darkness in both people soul, feeling the senous montions as the slave becomes awaken to dark sexual erotic arousal. Then when both have reach that hight of clmax, one forces the down and makes her feel like she has been taken.
and for bondage it is not little rope tied here or there but allowing the slave to feel secure in the binds that hold her. and yes her breast are expose and to be played with. once again can be fun. but have someone at your total mercy being mummfide in bounds of seran wrap or duck tape. Bondage can even be played as a game, with my ex-master he would rope bondage me, and then tell me i had to stay that way for an hour or so, and after the hour i could wiggle out of it, he use to enjoy watching me undo myself, he watch the strands of rope being slip from my being, and the winner being if i could or not get out of the rope, or other restraints, would get to chose the next toy. But Masters/doms you are artist, and your slave/sub she is your cavans, not just some sex toy or robot.
take care and be safe
slave jlb

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 12

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:43:46 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

I agree. The thing is, with what you cited, I don't really know if the person is submissive. It could be that, like in my example, she is just wanting a certain level and to get to know the person yadda yadda. It could also be that all she is wanting is to be topped occasionally with no real submission. In such cases, if it is at all questionable and you are interested, I would ask. You can probably get a good indication with a few emails back and forth if she would ideally want a D/s relationship or is just looking for some casual play only.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 13

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:46:00 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

But I repeat my point - if you simply want to be tied up and show no signs of wanting to submit are you really a submissive?

Probably not. But then, again, I do not think there is any other option on the other side to denote that.

Edited to add: the only options are slave, switch, submissive and dominant. People who are just bottoms with no desire to actually submit probably just choose the closest category.

< Message edited by MsKatHouston -- 10/31/2006 7:47:58 AM >

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 14

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 7:54:19 AM

CrappyDom

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Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
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dvart,

I have found that the women you are desparaging make FAR better submissives than those who don't talk about their needs and boundaries.

Human's are complex animals and most wander around having no idea of what motivates them and the better they understand themselves and their motivations, they better position they are in to choose a partner wisely and to submit more fully.

They also have higher standards for whom they wish to submit, which again works for me.

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 15

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 8:04:57 AM

KatyLied

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From: Pennsylvania
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To the OP - only you can decide your personal difference between an informed sub who cares about her boundaries and a "do me" sub who is attempting to top you.

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“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to CrappyDom)

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RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 8:08:26 AM

dvart

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Joined: 10/26/2006
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I am not disparaging anyone.
I am totally in favour of high standards and agreed limits.
I was simply saying that is someone who only has a kink to be tied up and doesn't want to submit in any other way really a submissive ?
Perhaps there should be another category for such a person "kink" for example.

< Message edited by dvart -- 10/31/2006 8:16:53 AM >

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 17

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 8:18:07 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

I am not disparaging anyone.
I am totally in favour of high standards and agreed limits.
I was simply saying that is someone only has a kink to be tied up and doesn't want to submit in any other way really a submissive ?
Perhaps there should be another category for such a person "kink" for example.

I do not know is the answer, she is whatever she and her partner say she is. It does not matter what I think or you think.

I have a very good friend that went from a more fulltime sort of submissive to the bedroom variety. She is still very submissive, it just does not work for her to submit all the time in her life. What is she? I do not know, only she can define herself. I think she is a submissive, she calls herself a bedroom sub.. who knows better than she what she is.

A profile is a snapshot into someone's life, it does not tell you all about them. A do me sub in one relationship could be a TPE one in another relationship. Submissive is not just the action, it is a way of being

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 18

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 8:19:32 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

There are some "submissives" whose profiles read like this "I'm an independent woman, I won't be a doormat, I won't do anything you ask unless I want to and sometimes (at a time of my own choosing) I will ORDER you to tie me up in such a way as I have predefined in detail." (OK I am exaggerating a little) I complete understand, because I certainly wouldn't want to submit, but isn't it a bit misleading for someone like this to describe themselves as a "submissive". Doesn't submissive imply more than a need to be tied up, such as wanting to SUBMIT to someone?

Perhaps a better word would be "bottom" to describe that relationship dynamic? Of course, the choices on this website are geared more toward Ds it seems to me so a bottom might have to choose the "submissive" term whether or not it is the best word.

Or perhaps its more of a bedroom or sexual dynamic where each partner is expecting to have power and an equal share in things but one is the "sub" in terms of looking like they are receiving and giving over some authority?

Or maybe its just a bedroom dynamic?

One word can never explain all the complexities of how a person views themselves or what they want. I have a lot more respect for someone who goes into detail even if I don't personal agree with how they use a word or two than someone who just says "I am a submissive" without explaining what they mean by that.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to dvart)

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RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to su... - 10/31/2006 8:24:09 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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Browsing through several profiles I think many subs who advertise are interested in sexual submission as opposed to submission per se. It's a kink thing and not a lifestyle thing. Which is fine by me, I wouldn't want my kink to rule my life.

(in reply to dvart)

Post #: 20

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