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RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/27/2006 3:55:23 PM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
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I may not understand the question, but then again I understand it in how it applies to me. Like most, I'm not submissive to every Dom that strolls along. It's few that take my breath way, but thank god for those that do! On the other hand, I've met men that have taken the sub roll to me just because. I found I can do it, but I dont enjoy it at all. I prefer to feed my submissive side.

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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 21

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/27/2006 4:15:32 PM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shadevarr

As a Dom, I enjoy and strive to control all aspects of my life. Work, home, with friends, in bed, all of it. It is just what I am most comfortable with and I have never thought that I could be a wuss in public. Oh, and on the dancing thing. I avoid the dance floor because I haven't mastered it yet but karaoke is just downright silly and I gotta be really drunk to participate. In my book karaoke is a form of humiliation play :P

I enjoy the hell out of dancing. I go up to people and yack with pretty much anybody. I learned a wonderful lesson years ago which is basically the "Act As If" rule. What this rule basically states is that the most important thing to do is to act is if whatever you did / are doing is exactly what you are supposed to be doing.

An example of this involves acting on stage. Screw up your lines. Get a line that is not in the script from one of your fellow actors. It is the actors job to pretend that is exactly what was supposed to be said, and to play along to cover the actor who messed up.

John Cleese has a line in "A Fish Called Wanda" wherein he describes the British as being people who walk around with their hair clenched, terrified of being embarrassed. I would imagine that many of these Dominants who are passive and shy in public are simply afflicted by Clenched-Hair Syndrome.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

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(in reply to shadevarr)

Post #: 22

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/27/2006 4:25:45 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I learned a wonderful lesson years ago which is basically the "Act As If" rule. What this rule basically states is that the most important thing to do is to act is if whatever you did / are doing is exactly what you are supposed to be doing.

Any cat owner will recognize that behavior.

John

< Message edited by Rover -- 10/27/2006 4:26:04 PM >

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(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 23

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/27/2006 5:00:52 PM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

This comes from the thread asking is it easier to take control, or to submit, and many have stated that it's most likely that W/we each have one role that is eaiest for us to get comfy in.

But, like many submissives, i am dominant in many ways. Giveing up control is not natural or easy for me. i choose the slave role because the contrast with my nature is exactly what makes it feel right for me within certain relationships.

i've also noticed (much to my surprise at first!) that many Dominants (not a majority, but enough to notice the phenomenon) are veritibale weenies when out on public. They don't dance for fear of looking silly, They aren't the first to welcome a newcomer to the room, They are generally passive socially except in the relationships where They have been "authorised" power.

Do Y/you, in power exchange relationships, take the role that is easiest for Y/you, comes most naturally? Or is this the arena where personality and temperament flip is the golden ring?

I take the role that is easiest for me; but at the same time, I have such a humorous outlook on life that I can be very outgoing and aggressive with people, while at the same time be quiet, calm and unobtrusive. He often says that I am a huge contradiction when others meet me for the first time because of this; something that I really find to be quite interesting because I am just being myself.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 24

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/27/2006 5:02:50 PM

ownedgirlie

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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I do not take the easy route. I used to take the easy route, and I was a very depressed person. Why? Because taking the easy route meant I was not working toward what I wanted...or toward who and what I am.

Now I just live my life as true to myself as I can. I don't find it particularly easy, but I won't dare complain about the difficulty which has brought me such rewards. As Master has told me a gazillion times, "If it was easy, anyone could do it." His demands and expectations of me are very high, and I am expected to meet them.

However, being anything other than who and what I am would create a different kind of challenge and difficulty - and one I would not want. Been there, done that..

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 25

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/27/2006 5:15:38 PM

kyraofMists

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I don't consider myself to be assuming a role within my relationship. It is just who I am. It is a hell of a lot easier to be who I am than to try and be something that I am not. The more I behave in a manner that demonstrates my inner self, the happier I become.

Frankly, the relationship I am in is easy. It has it's moments of struggle but it is just so easy to love them and be loved by them. What makes it easy in my opinion, is that we are just being ourselves. We are not pretending to be something we are not and we accept each other for who we are.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 26

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/27/2006 5:22:26 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis
Do Y/you, in power exchange relationships, take the role that is easiest for Y/you, comes most naturally? Or is this the arena where personality and temperament flip is the golden ring?

I take the role of Dominant because it fits my personality. I could not be submissive. It is by far the most easy and natural for me. In my outside life, I am very outgoing, I dance regardless of how silly I look. (Since that was mentioned) I am a leader at work, wether or not I am in the position of authority. For me, this is just what comes naturally, so I embrace it and carry it over into the TPE Angel and I have.
Its a little different for Angel. Outside our relationship, he is a far more dominant personality than what I typicaly see. It is a little strange to see, when he and I go out with friends, since that is how he acts around them. He never forgets his place with me, but he definately has a different side that they see that doesnt follow into the house with us alone. It is stil the easiest role for him to take, privately. Its just not the easiest for him to keep up outside.

DV

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I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 27

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/27/2006 5:29:07 PM

KnightofMists

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The easiest thing for me in a relationship is to be the Dominant in said relationship. I couldn't imagine just how difficult it would be to be the submissive in said relationship.

Interestly thou... It is rather easy for my girls to be the submissive partners in our relationship.... I couldn't imagine just how difficult it would be for them to be the Dominants in a relationship.

Traveling a path we are not destine to travel is so much harder than traveling a path that is made of us.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 10/27/2006 5:30:03 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 28

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/27/2006 9:33:07 PM

mstrjx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

i've also noticed (much to my surprise at first!) that many Dominants (not a majority, but enough to notice the phenomenon) are veritibale weenies when out on public. They don't dance for fear of looking silly, They aren't the first to welcome a newcomer to the room, They are generally passive socially except in the relationships where They have been "authorised" power.

In public, it would be fair to say that I carry an air of confidence and authority. I move quickly, head up, eyes watchful. Things get done for me without my asking. This also goes with people who don't know me or anything about me.

I'll stick out in a crowd of dominant men. I'll be the one not trying to outdo the others.

But that's pretty true of all my dealings in public. I'll only engage others if necessary. I'm actually very pleasant and kind, charming even. I just avoid people like the plague if I can get by with it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

Do Y/you, in power exchange relationships, take the role that is easiest for Y/you, comes most naturally? Or is this the arena where personality and temperament flip is the golden ring?

When I started WIITWD, I went with what seemed like it was going to be more exciting and sexy, which was leading. I have the imagination to figure out how to bring out the best in others, as well as myself. So I have done so ever since.

Jeff

< Message edited by mstrjx -- 10/27/2006 9:34:50 PM >

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 29

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/27/2006 9:46:38 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

i've also noticed (much to my surprise at first!) that many Dominants (not a majority, but enough to notice the phenomenon) are veritibale weenies when out on public. They don't dance for fear of looking silly, They aren't the first to welcome a newcomer to the room, They are generally passive socially except in the relationships where They have been "authorised" power.

Do you consider these things to show that a dominant is a weenie? You say they don't dance for fear of looking silly. Do they tell you that they are afraid of looking silly or this just an assumption? Maybe they just don't like to dance.

The other two examples, not the first to welcome newcomers and passive socially, that makes me think introvert and not a weenie. My Lord, alandra and I are all introverted. We are very reserved in social settings and for the most part passively wait for others to come to us. denika and her husband are both extroverts and will actively socialize all night long. That doesn't have anything to do with dominance or submission.

I enjoyed your question and it has sparked some interesting posts, but I think this paragraph has too many assumptions to draw the negative conclusion of weenie.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 30

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/28/2006 4:28:18 AM

polyandry

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Joined: 9/7/2006
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I'm surprised at how the responses are so far, so contrary to the statement made in the initial post. It's cool but now I feel even more obligated to post and, well, it's a tad embarrassing :) I'm Dominant, but in public and around MOST people I can come across as shy, unsure of myself, etc. Just not that comfortable in social situations, especially with females, they have preconceptions of how a sweet-looking female should talk and behave. I'm told by men that they are jealous of me too. Alpha females are simply disliked. But mostly people don't know what to make of me, I guess. When I am comfortable with someone is when I can actually be myself and have the Dominant parts come out. Haven't you ever heard it's the shy ones you have to watch out for? I've heard it plenty of times that guys know the cute innocent-looking girl is the one who's Dominant in the relationship / in bed. I attribute the way I am to the fact that I was trying to fit into society's norms too much (while I don't achieve the goal very well), and based on bad childhood experiences. So I am still learning how to be myself to the rest of the world. Luckily plenty of men won't judge me as unfit to Top because of my loving, introverted, inhibited side. Many of the candidate subs/slaves I am meeting are the Alpha male in their regular lives. I love that type. They are Dominant overall, but really truly feel comfortable with & want to submit to a special, powerful female. But most are extremely comfortable with their role in the vanilla world, they wouldn't want that changed. I have this little hypothesis that most people are born with both sides to them, because the ability to switch somewhat would be needed in this world, but some people have experiences that make them dislike one of the sides.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 31

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/28/2006 4:28:51 AM

KatyLied

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From: Pennsylvania
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Be yourself, even if you are wrapped in contradictions (age play as both a daughter and a mommy type) that makes it more interesting. I think the easiest role is the one that comes naturally and is not forced. Submission isn't always easy for me, but it never feels forced. Sometimes challenging; but never forced. Does that make sense?

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“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 32

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/28/2006 4:55:12 AM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Be yourself, even if you are wrapped in contradictions (age play as both a daughter and a mommy type) that makes it more interesting. I think the easiest role is the one that comes naturally and is not forced. Submission isn't always easy for me, but it never feels forced. Sometimes challenging; but never forced. Does that make sense?

Actually it makes a lot of sense. I can be very aggressive with people, but that comes from a good many years of being by myself and having to make sure that the youngin is safe and happy. That aggression is a natural part of myself, even when I am with him. At the same time, I am very opinionated, and will often just blurt out something that is on my mind with no thought as to whether or not its a 'good' time to say it or not lol.

And yet, I know my place in our relationship, and being a slave comes very easy for me in regards to him. So yes, its a challenge and yet its also the easiest thing in the world.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 33

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/28/2006 8:40:43 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

Do Y/you, in power exchange relationships, take the role that is easiest for Y/you, comes most naturally? Or is this the arena where personality and temperament flip is the golden ring?

My owner has a dominant personality which is really the only way I could see myself submitting to him because in many ways I also have a dominant personality. He just has a stronger dominant personality in relation to me. So for me the way I relate with him is very different than in general how I relate to the world, but the way he relates to me is very similar to the way he relates to the world except that he does reign in how he relates to others (for social politeness purposes) not to appear to overbearing or dominant. While with me he doesn't have to reign it in at all.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 34

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/28/2006 1:23:41 PM

Mavis

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Thank Y/you all so much! The answers here have been very interesting.

But i do want to clarify the examples used, and voice my agreement that Social Dominance doesn't always translate to being a Dominant, as many have pointed out. A lot of submissives are social leaders, and a lot of Dominants are quite comfortable following if the situation warrents it.

kyra -- my take on dancing is actually from discussing it with Dominant males i know, and i was surprised to find many that said simply They were afraid of embarrassing Themselves in public. That struck me as incompatible with "Domliness", but i'm finding it's more common than i thought. Is it possible They are drawn to Dominance because They would have the ultimate audience, assured appreciation, in that one arena, no matter how they operate socially?

When i tried to hook Master up with Karaoke night, He said No Effing way. i accused Him of social weenism, fear of looking silly to others.. What Dominant should give a foof how others judge His singing? After discussing it, and being assured that His slave would be enjoying the hell out if it, He reconsidered. Giving Him the 100 % chance of at least One good critique, He was able to forget about other possible audience reactions.

My conclusion is that in this case.. if He isn't intrinsically socially dominant, His being a Dominant isn't exactly "easy", and in some cases, might actually be difficult. Knowing He has to make choices that aren't "easy" makes it more appealing to me.

(no, i don't feel that us discussing things that bring growth to E/either partner is topping from the bottom, but i know some will see this as such.)

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 35

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/28/2006 1:45:05 PM

Mavis

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ok, finally to answer for me...

i read a lot of comments that if you're doing something not easy, it's going to fail, if there isn't natural submission, you'll never be able to really live without conflict, etc.

i obviously feel otherwise. i know Master could be a very good slave. He understands, (as Jeff mentioned in another thread..) "place" and He has commitment to His word, He has follow-thru, He knows how to respond to authority without rancor. But there is something that feeds Him in His roles as my Master, and as Dom to His sub/wife.

i could probably be a very good Dominant. Depending on what is required, i can direct a path, stimulate others to agreement, encourage, chastise, or push others to achieve an end. that's easy! But what feeds me is submitting.

i LIKE battling my own will to choose to accept a different "place" than what comes natural to me. When i win that battle, i feel sooo (don't laugh!) close to holy. When i serve and it's recieved well, i feel more cosmic energy than i do if i lead a crew to a successful end on a project. Leading comes natural for me, so i get no more out of that than i do "accomplishing" taking a pee. Ho-hum. But let me work to attain anothers goals, and set aside my self for a bit to focus on their needs, and i dissapear into my work. i get in a mode that is different, electric, awakening.

Being my "natural self" gives me no challenge, nothing to overcome, no reward beyond continueing to be what i was at birth, "me"... with no growth, no motivating choices. Ew.

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 36

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/28/2006 1:55:29 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

Thank Y/you all so much! The answers here have been very interesting.

But i do want to clarify the examples used, and voice my agreement that Social Dominance doesn't always translate to being a Dominant, as many have pointed out. A lot of submissives are social leaders, and a lot of Dominants are quite comfortable following if the situation warrents it.

kyra -- my take on dancing is actually from discussing it with Dominant males i know, and i was surprised to find many that said simply They were afraid of embarrassing Themselves in public. That struck me as incompatible with "Domliness", but i'm finding it's more common than i thought. Is it possible They are drawn to Dominance because They would have the ultimate audience, assured appreciation, in that one arena, no matter how they operate socially?

When i tried to hook Master up with Karaoke night, He said No Effing way. i accused Him of social weenism, fear of looking silly to others.. What Dominant should give a foof how others judge His singing? After discussing it, and being assured that His slave would be enjoying the hell out if it, He reconsidered. Giving Him the 100 % chance of at least One good critique, He was able to forget about other possible audience reactions.

My conclusion is that in this case.. if He isn't intrinsically socially dominant, His being a Dominant isn't exactly "easy", and in some cases, might actually be difficult. Knowing He has to make choices that aren't "easy" makes it more appealing to me.

(no, i don't feel that us discussing things that bring growth to E/either partner is topping from the bottom, but i know some will see this as such.)

your logic that you use dictates that Dominants should be socially extroverted and therefore submissives should be socially introverted. This is just wrong in my opinion.

I find it much more submissive actions on the part of your Dominant that he would relate to your nagging and even demeaning manipulating to get him to do Karaoke. I would say in the situation you describe that you where the Dominant and he was the submissive and you used manipulation to obtained that position.

I find that I respect a person as a Dominant much more if they do or not do because that is what they want. But the reasons should come from within not externally. Did he internally want to do the Karaoke but choose not to because of fear of judgement of others... yes I agree this is rather submissive in nature. becuase the others have the control not him... but... when he did it... it was not because he choose not let them have control... the control just past to you... by goading him...

Yes I see this behavior of yours as Topping from the bottom... simply because you manipulated and goaded him.

All that needed to be asked is "Are you not doing Karaoke because you don't like it.. or are doing it because of how others will percieve you?" but instead... you call him a social weenie... you push buttons to cause him to grow.. you Dominanted the situaiton... and he let you!

I am not one to Dance alot.. but I have when I want to. I have done a striptease at a club once and won first prize... took everyone by surprize since generally I am rather reserved in social gatherings... but I did it because I wanted to... and not because of external influences or that I was manipulated or goaded into it.

There is a distinct line between... Growth experiences that is internally motivated and those that are caused because of external influences. Frankly, if my girls tried the shit you did... they would have some serious consequences to deal with.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 37

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/28/2006 3:20:01 PM

Mavis

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Joined: 2/8/2004
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quote:

"your logic that you use dictates that Dominants should be socially extroverted and therefore submissives should be socially introverted. This is just wrong in my opinion."

Actually, W/we agree, social dominance or social passivity do not have much to do with being a Dominant or a submissive, but that was something i learned after years, it wasn't my initial expectation. i really DID expect that Dominants would be socially assertive, and i felt bad for not being socially passive, as i thought that was the expectation, and it was terribly conflicting for me.

On topping from below, i understand completely Your observations, which is why i acknowledged how it might look. And yes, if He had jumped on stage and sung right then, i would have felt i had poked a chink in the wall. All He said was that He would reconsider it for the next visit, because there was some validity to a Dominant not being ruled by social expectations. ( the pub audience, OR mine!)

quote:

"Yes I see this behavior of yours as Topping from the bottom... simply because you manipulated and goaded him."

If "social weenism" was a word chosen to hot-button, it would be manipulation, but it's a concept W/we use a lot, and it doesn't have the hot-button effect on E/either of U/us. i was pointing out that He loves singing, is very good, yet would accept external controls of others, which wasn't consistant behavior for Him. Yes, i will "goad" Him to behave consistant with His norms, but there better be solid ground under me if i even think about it.

That is NOT to say i don't see any way i could have been topping from the bottom here, He would say not in the discussion of karaoke do or don't do. BUt possibly moreso in the idea that it is ok for me to suggest an area of growth or change. i tread carefully in that realm. It isn't my job to effect changes in Him, unless those come as by products of O/our working together, not because i see something i'd like to see changed. He will allow it if there is a case where it's truly about His betterment, He's not so hung up that His authority is compromised by my input. On the occasions where i have crossed the line, i've been summarily dismissed, or reminded of my place with "thank You Maam. May I have my life back now?"

quote:

"Frankly, if my girls tried the shit you did... they would have some serious consequences to deal with."

Yes Sir, i understand that too. i sometimes choose to do something that might have dire consequences, if i feel there is a longer term issue worth getting in trouble for. i've made the occasional bad bet and lost my chips. i've also had some wonderful payoffs in the currency of growth and understanding.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 38

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/28/2006 4:59:02 PM

deltadawn

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Joined: 7/15/2006
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I think it is always easier just to be who I am. If playing a role, and I am a horrid actress, I would still hope the role fit who I am naturally.

Being His does not make me submissive to anyone else. There are some I seem to always be submissive to and others that I take a much different approach. If any were to ask the unmentionables who the tougher one was......it would be me. He seems to melt around them.

dawn

_____________________________

Beneath his wings, I can fly.

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 39

RE: Do You take the "Easiest" role? - 10/28/2006 5:48:09 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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I don't think introverted is the same as passive. Nor is knowing that you have no sense of rhythm and are likely to damage your partners toes equal to being afraid of being ridiculed. I get the feeling you have very rigid opinions of what makes a true dominant. Which is fine if it's your personal preferences but not if you label everyone else. You used an awful lot of pejorative terms in a relatively short post.

As far as easiest? Not how I would describe it. I do what is natural to me and my personality, as he does. In other words, we are true to ourselves and don't twist ourselves inside out to get other people's approval. Comes from living long enough to be comfortable in our own skin.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 40

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