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The Subtlies of speech - 9/7/2006 8:54:30 PM

KnightofMists

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The same words stated can often only be made distinct in the manner we say it.

Two Simple Phrases.

"Please get me a drink!"

"Please get me a drink?"

In writing we denote the difference by the "exclamation mark" and "question mark". However, in speech it is only our voice that will make a distinction.

The first phrase is a command or instruction. What are the manners of speech that will denote this as a command to you. Is there certain manners that are more positive or effective for you? Is there some that you just don't appreciate? What other comments do you have?

The second phrase is a request. What are the manners of speech that will denote this as a request to you? Is there certain manners that are more postive or effective for you? Is there some that you jut don't appreciate or acknowledge? What other comments do you have?

Note... I appreciate that the relationship you have will affect how you interpret the phrase. So instead of comparing it to other relationships, Consider the phrases to be stated by your primary or significant partner(s).

finally.... is there any other comments to add with regards to the subtlies of speech?

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

Post #: 1

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/7/2006 9:15:36 PM

Owned1

Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
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Tone of voice, body language, facial expression all would tell me what the statement meant. That all being said, when Master asks me to do something or get something it is a command no matter where we are or what it is. I may play around and say no get it yourself (as I am already on my way to getting whatever it is he asked for) as well I have a silly smile on my face and he has his big bad Dom face on.

If I am unable to do what he has requested I explain and request to do it later or something similar.

Speech in itself has many subtlies, all effected by what I stated at the start of this post. Communication is a skill we can all improve upon revise and rework.

Owned

_____________________________

~~in His Chains i am free~~

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Post #: 2

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/7/2006 9:32:29 PM

juliaoceania

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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I am always asked as though it is a request and not an order, but there is always an underlying tone that he knows I will comply because of our dynamic. He does not need to be bossy and knowing him I would say he would not want to be "rude" by barking orders at me. He treats all people politely, I am a person too...smiles.

I have also noted an increase in statements of "fact" concerning my behavior, not in a demeaning way, but in a way that shows his certainty... such as "you will do XYZ" or "you will not do XYZ". There is no raising of the voice, just a little bit of steel in it.

When we are talking and he wants to make me laugh, but assert his dominance, he will interupt me in a specific way, because it is a cue for me to stop what I am saying and ask him what he wants of me..he will do this repeatedly until I laugh and lose my place in what I was saying. It is not rudeness on his part... it is his way of showing me he controls whether or not I even finish a thought. He finds it amusing that my demeanor changes just at his utterance of the these verbal cues he gives to me. It is effective in putting me instantly in a submissive headspace.

I will note something in case new doms are reading my post on being effective with their submissives. If something is truly troubling me he makes time to talk it out and I may speak freely. I am more free to communicate my insecurities with him than I have ever been in my life. I treasure this and it makes me feel 1000 times more submissive everytime he gives me the gift of expressing myself this way. He does not interupt me when I speak this way, he does not tell me what to feel, he does not get mad at me for having feelings, and he does not try to "dom" me out of them. It makes our communication that much deeper.

I am looking forward to the time when it seems I am a telepath because I can read every nuance of tone, every gesture, and every glance.. that is when my service to him will feel complete

I have been involved with two dominants, neither spoke to me in a rude, demeaning, or abusive way... I thought I would throw that in.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Post #: 3

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/7/2006 9:59:30 PM

ownedgirlie

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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I took a voice class awhile back (for voice-over commercials) and the very first thing they taught us was what is communicated by one's tone and inflection.

When someone asks your name, how do you answer? Most will say, "Ann Jones?" with that tilt up at the end (Ann Jones being a fictionary name here). However, that communicates uncertainty. The instructor replied by saying, "Are you asking me? Are you not even sure what your name is?" Confidence is expressed by stating your name as a statement - "Ann Jones." The tone drops a bit at the end of the last name. The same applies with most questions about yourself.

As for your questions, it really depends on who is doing the stating or asking. Master does not ask things of me. He tells me what he wants done. Sometimes he'll bark out an order, other times he will just state it. His tone is usually indicative of what is going on at that time. If anyone else barked out orders to me, I would likely give them a qurky look and make a polite (sometimes fun, sometimes serious) comment about its inappropriateness to me (I've done that with my boss more than once).

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 4

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/7/2006 10:01:55 PM

fromthetopdown

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Joined: 9/6/2006
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Hiya,

I agree with owned that tone of voice and facial expression make all the difference.
Also intonation. Generally, if stress is placed on the first word, it's a request; if placed on the second or (more likely) the last, it's a command. Tone of voice can mess with all that, though - even if expressed in the most affable, soft intonation, if there's a hint of steel (as julia says) lurking beneath, then I'd take if for an instruction. In that case, the juxtaposition would be sort of funny to me, and I'd respond best to that.
What I don't respond well to (in most cases) is a barked command. That's just me.

As for subtleties of speech generally - I once wrote an undergrad paper on "uptalk" (where people make statements sound like questions by raising their voice at the end - eg. "so I went to the store? and I was looking for popcorn? and when I asked the clerk guy? he said they were all out." this person is clearly not asking if they were looking for popcorn or not). It is generally assumed that uptalk is a sign that the person is looking for affirmation or just lacks confidence in what they are saying and that can be a correct assessment in many cases. But. There were situations where uptalk was simply used as a device to let the person they were talking to know that they weren't finished yet. There are a pile of ways that speakers let one another know whose "turn" it is to talk, and I reckon uptalk fits the bill.

You give the example where the words are the same but the meaning is different, but there's also the case where tone can be imparted by choice of words, though the meaning is quite the same. I can think of a number of ways of saying "hey, wanna sit down and join us for a drink?" that are flowery, blunt, sarcastic, or whatever.
Language is imprecise and that's what makes it fun and frustrating, imo.

(probably more than you wanted to know, but...)

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 5

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/7/2006 11:13:22 PM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
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This is a subject that bishop has had to work on.

The way things are said with that certain undertone of snotty-ness she sometimes has,makes people think she is pissed off or bitchy...she doesnt hear it or didnt until I taped her talking without her knowing then played it back to her.

After hearing it herself she was able to realize how others hear her.she recently was promoted in her job to a Dept. Head so the voice thing has been proven to her outside of here and she trys really hard to think being speaking.
I have to add I am very proud of her for the changes and progress she has made.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 6

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 12:22:51 AM

Samwhiplash

Posts: 191
Joined: 10/5/2005
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Sounds like u guys hve a great dynamic going on.

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Post #: 7

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 2:04:37 AM

ExSteelAgain

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Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
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Nuances of speech and grammar can affect the reception of any remark. In addition, tone and inflection of spoken words will affect the message. I can say something humorous that has gotten me many laughs in the past, but if it is delivered in a quiet, monotone manner, it will go over flat. I have to feel and speak in an upbeat manner that shows that I’m feeling just as humorous or whatever the intent as my remark is.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 8

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 2:12:13 AM

sierraflowr

Posts: 59
Joined: 6/7/2005
From: Northern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Nuances of speech and grammar can affect the reception of any remark. In addition, tone and inflection of spoken words will affect the message. I can say something humorous that has gotten me many laughs in the past, but if it is delivered in a quiet, monotone manner, it will go over flat. I have to feel and speak in an upbeat manner that shows that I’m feeling just as humorous or whatever the intent as my remark is.

Thats very true.. Thank you. its why i sometimes hate the typed word. it is hard to view expressions. even talking soemtimes its misinterpreted.
speech classes can be fun to learn how to do things properly!
great topic!
thanks

_____________________________

~flowr
O};-
When I let go of who I am,
I become who I might be.
-Lao Tzu

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 9

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 3:58:54 AM

twicehappy

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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Good topic KOM.

The first" Please get me a drink!" would only work for my owners and is rarely heard in our house as i understand the second" Please get me a drink?" is the same statement as the first ; it is only that they do not feel the need to snap orders.

With others the second would get them a drink and a smile, while the first would likely get them growled at.

So yes how you say something is as important as what you say.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 10

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 5:18:47 AM

TNstepsout

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Joined: 8/3/2005
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Yes, voice inflection makes a huge difference. I work in billing and collecting and when people call I have to keep them on track or they will ramble forever. I almost always have to interrupt their tale of woe to ask for an account number. I have to do this with a certain amount of authority AND friendliness in my voice. Too much one way or the other and it doesn't go well.

As for me taking orders, I can't say from a D/s perspective as I haven't really had that outside of play. But in general I don't take harsh barked orders well unless I KNOW the situation warrants it, such as a serious emergency of some sort. Other than that, I prefer things to be stated as requests or a statement of need or like "I NEED more water please" or "I'd LIKE another napkin please" etc...

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 11

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 5:40:34 AM

kisshou

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Alot of times I feel like the odd one out but I like being commanded rather than asked.

Get me a drinnk with a finger snap will have me jumping to my feet and running to comply. I will also be rewarded with finger run through my hair after I serve the drink , which will leave me glowing with happiness.

Sometimes the Owner will look at me and state 'I am thirsty", then I know I am falling down on the job because I should have seen to this need before he had to make such a statement.

The Owner has impeccable manners but chooses to give me orders as part of our dynamic. It really works for us because it makes all I do feel more like service (not just me being nice and getting my boyfriend a drink, food, newspaper etc).

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 12

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 6:37:42 AM

cloudboy

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When my dad got mad, his voice always went lower.

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Post #: 13

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 6:40:27 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
The first phrase is a command or instruction. What are the manners of speech that will denote this as a command to you. Is there certain manners that are more positive or effective for you?

Actually I don't give any cues differently when it's a standard request versus a request I know and expect will be obeyed.

quote:

Is there some that you just don't appreciate? What other comments do you have?

There was the famous bread wench incident where another person (who I had never met before) at the table offered my services to provide bread for everyone at the table continuously through the night AND expected me to constantly fill his plate. That wasn't cool.

quote:

finally.... is there any other comments to add with regards to the subtlies of speech?

Most people have no idea how to employ them and it can be delightful to manipulate others with them.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Post #: 14

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 7:36:39 AM

foxglove716

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Lets not forget about body language. "Please get me a drink" while sitting on the couch with your hands folded in your lap changes completely when youre standing and pointing at the fridge. Eye contact, straightness of back, idle arm postition, whether you are leaning towards/away from someone all matters. 90% of communication is non verbal. When you stop listening its amazing what your eyes will pick up.

_____________________________

Illusion is the first of all pleasures. -Oscar Wilde

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Post #: 15

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 7:45:23 AM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

The same words stated can often only be made distinct in the manner we say it.

Two Simple Phrases.

"Please get me a drink!"

"Please get me a drink?"

In writing we denote the difference by the "exclamation mark" and "question mark". However, in speech it is only our voice that will make a distinction.

The first phrase is a command or instruction. What are the manners of speech that will denote this as a command to you. Is there certain manners that are more positive or effective for you? Is there some that you just don't appreciate? What other comments do you have?

The second phrase is a request. What are the manners of speech that will denote this as a request to you? Is there certain manners that are more postive or effective for you? Is there some that you jut don't appreciate or acknowledge? What other comments do you have?

Note... I appreciate that the relationship you have will affect how you interpret the phrase. So instead of comparing it to other relationships, Consider the phrases to be stated by your primary or significant partner(s).

finally.... is there any other comments to add with regards to the subtlies of speech?

Been alot of talk about this going on in my little world here. Not only with doms.. but with kids. It's all in how things are said. Tones of voices. Body languages... it all matters. Having teens about.... there's plenty of comments about how they talk to me. Or others for that matter. As for doms... being unowned... depending on what's going on.. when I'm spoke to.. and how I'm spoke to....will tell how I rerespond also. Just any dom barking at me.....well... depending on my mood... will cause me to respond with laughter or a smart ass remark in return. But like I said... it also depends on HOW the bark .....came out.

Interesting thread KoM.....I look forward to how others interpid barking versus requesting...and general talking all together.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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Post #: 16

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 7:51:55 AM

foxglove716

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Almost always when two people are talking, one person's tone changes to match the other person's. This is percieved to be the submissive bending to the dominant voice. In every presidential debate the candidate's voice that changed lost the election. There is only one president in history who's voice did change to match his opponent, you can probably guess who :)

_____________________________

Illusion is the first of all pleasures. -Oscar Wilde

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Post #: 17

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 7:56:57 AM

ownedgirlie

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

finally.... is there any other comments to add with regards to the subtlies of speech?

I thought about this a little more. It also depends on who your audience is. Outside the D/s context, there could be reasons for various types of tones in requests. I doubt military troops in battle, for example, would respond well to, "Can you please hold your fire a moment?" Whereas in a school room with younger, sensitive minds, a bark would likely return scoffs, hurt feelings, and other negative responses.

"Barking" orders is not necessarily a bad thing. Such a trait may feel hurtful to one and good to another, as with so many issues in D/s. Personally, I get off when Master barks, and he knows it, and he loves that I do. Others might hear us and misinterpret us, or think that's the only way he talks to me. If the way he spoke to me hurt me, I doubt it would continue, as he prefers to watch me grow and flourish, rather than crumble.

Great topic!

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Post #: 18

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 7:58:04 AM

onestandingstill

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Hello Knight of Mists,
For me if the last word drink is said in an authoritative deep tone I would view it as an order, if it was said loudly I'd say I better hurry the heck up and get it quick as he's irritated. If the last word went up in pitch it would sound like a request. I'd think he was not sure of something like if he wanted it or if I could go get it right then base on the situation.
Body language can also have a lot to do with my discernment factors. If in a very quiet way this was said, but he has his posture showing he's irritated it would change the message. If he said it loud and was smiling again the tone would be superseded by the body language for me.
The last thing that give us signals of the implied influx would be the eyes. Sometimes the words and body language can say one thing, but the eyes show something else is under the surface of it.
All these signals coupled with the knowledge of what else is going on in that persons life at the moment give you much clearer interpretations than you could just pick up from written words.
Me I personally like when someone says just what they want, expect, feel, or mean and the tone, body language, eyes and current circumstance show you the the same thing and match. Even if I don't like or agree with what's being said I can appreciate there's no crossed signals to have to decipher and know what the speaker intended more comfortably.

As to your last question several years back a university ( I can't remember who) did a study where they sent several people into two separate rooms. The one half sent E-Mail messages to the other half. In over 70% of the E-Mails the tone the person who sent the message thought the words in, and the tone the recipients heard when they read the words did not match. I think person to person is a much clearer way to interpret intentions of something someone said to you. The written word in my opinion rarely will show you someone's real personality if you've never met or spoken before.

Suzanne

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Post #: 19

RE: The Subtlies of speech - 9/8/2006 8:16:29 AM

peekaboopet

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onestandingstill-
I agree with the statement that you really cant tell much about a person through written word alone.
There are many skilled persons out there who can adopt different styles.
But then again there are those that can sit before someone and put on a performance as well. Able to control voice and mannerisms,and disguise intent.
So ... would meeting someone face to face help at all.

_____________________________

Damn the Iguana's.... never trust one, the shifty eyed bastards

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Post #: 20

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