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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 11:16:32 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		It shouldnt be. Because it is the cost of defense. While I agree that some of the things you pointed out should come from other budgets, this one should be added to the military budget.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/10/2015 11:17:22 AM >

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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 11:36:18 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		I really don't think anyone wants the military covering 1/3 of the population. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Veterans_Affairs

I personally don't like the VA. Has way to many problems, but that is another discussion.

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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 11:38:35 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Ja, I think they do, since it is a cost of doing business. Externalities are killing us.

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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 11:55:32 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		On that I agree.

I would like to look at SSA's budget as well. At 850 Billion in 2015 seems a bit high. I am not sure what could be done about it. But a look is necessary in both funding it and reduction of costs.

http://www.ssa.gov/budget/FY15Files/2015BO.pdf

And yes I recieve social security because of my age and a military requirement (reduced benefits because I am retired military) and my wife is on disability due to major medical issues.

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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 12:01:31 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		They paid that out in benefits in 2013



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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 12:08:33 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		The DOD budget for 2015 is 561 Billion not counting combat operations.

http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/Documents/defbudget/fy2015/amendment/FY15_OCO_Budget_Amendment_Update.pdf

If you factor in the 95 Billion for contingency operations then it is still less than SSA

http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/Documents/defbudget/fy2015/amendment/FY2015_OCO_Budget_Amendment_Overview_Book.pdf


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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 12:15:44 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		add in the va, and its more, but still, way too much. Combat operations are how much? So, we could dump 561 billion of fat out of the military.

SSA was paid in and covered some 60-80 million folks in some way or another.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/10/2015 12:17:59 PM >

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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 12:25:43 PM   
DommeinRochester


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I don't know who to attribute this quote "A nation has no business going to war if they can't afford to take care of it's veterans" (Or something like that)

In my opinion researching new methods of repairing wounds is definitely under the umbrella of care.

Sure there are things that could be trimmed from various budgets, but to suggest cutting research with direct benefits to wounded soldiers is a new level of heartlessness.

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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 12:33:34 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		The contingency costs don't cover a lot of things. It does cover the cost of combat and combat related activities getting to and in theater.

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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 12:42:14 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year_spending_20XXUSbn_XXbs2n_3031_051

This breaks it down a little.

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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 3:58:55 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		I like your chart. Shows healthcare, especially to venders. Venders get half as much as DOD. And the overall cost of healthcare is 200 billion more than DOD. Education is also greater than DOD.

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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 6:28:39 PM   
MrRodgers


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Status: offline 		Wishful thinking and this one is debatable. When we ran WWII with less than 1000 line officers and have maintained over 2000 line officers since. With all that we don't need there, fat chance anything will be killed.

The military is so top heavy, it should have fallen over but for sucking on the taxpayers largess.


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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 6:55:55 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
But the general concensus is that the purpose of the military is to blow up shit and kill people. Not to figure out health issues. That is the Surgeon Generals department. How can we cut the budget without eliminating items that aren't directly related to the military purpose.


The military's purpose is to defend our country. Part of the Federal Government's responsibilities, though, is to take care of those who it employs. Since the military is paying for this as research for applications to wounded soldiers, I do think this is appropriate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
But the general concensus is that the purpose of the military is to blow up shit and kill people.

You can take a similar position on guns, but it's not like many people will sympathize with it, as seen on this forum.


Who is going to argue we don't need a military?




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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 6:59:01 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
I am not saying that the research isn't good. Hell, I think it is wonderful. However, why the Military? Wouldn't someone in CDC, Medicare, Surgen General, NIH, VA or some other with expertise in medical research be more qualified? Additionally, everyone wants the military budget cut (as seen on other posts) so this would do that. I say, the Military should cut this lady loose. Close the line item, and save the money for bullets, etc.
Additionally, we should cut other things, like Traumatic Brain Injury within the NFL. The military isn't a medical corp, it has other purposes.


So, your complaint is that the Federal Government is paying for it, but that it's coming out of the DoD Budget? Seriously?!?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 7:05:02 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Additionally, wouldn't the military save a ton of money if we eliminated the responsibility for flood control, etc from the Army Corps of Engineers and give that requirement to the Department of the Interior or the BLM or someone like that?
And why is it the responsibility of the Military to providing foreign aide during times of crisis in our and various other countries. We deliver MRE's, use military resources, etc. Why don't we transfer that line item to FEMA who is responsible for this type of activity?
Wouldn't these save money in the Military Budget?


It might save money from the DoD budget, but it isn't saving any money. Would you pat yourself on the back for all the spending cuts if you took the DoD budget to zero by simply moving the entire budget to the Secretary of State (for instance) budget? Of course not.

http://www.usace.army.mil/About/MissionandVision.aspx
    quote:

    Mission
    Deliver vital public and military engineering services; partnering in peace and war to strengthen our Nation’s security, energize the economy and reduce risks from disasters.
    Vision
    Engineering solutions for our Nation’s toughest challenges.


I guess the mission and vision for the CoE about settles why they're used the way they are.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/10/2015 9:21:11 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		LOL It would satisfy some that think the Military Budget is inflated and should be cut. Then they can complain about other departments budget. Just trying to make them happy.

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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/11/2015 7:30:36 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I like your chart. Shows healthcare, especially to venders. Venders get half as much as DOD. And the overall cost of healthcare is 200 billion more than DOD. Education is also greater than DOD.



Well, seems like the laws need changing and we need to be able to negotiate with hospitals, insurance, pharma and so on, as a nation.

If you aint got healthy educated fed and prosperous people, there is nothing to defend, again, you strip the externalities from the DOD in the budget.

So, it is not an apples to apples comparison, how many of those vendor payments went to service related injuries? How much for GI education? You cant whine out of only one side of your mouth and expect to be seen other than as a propagandist.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/11/2015 7:31:20 AM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/11/2015 7:44:48 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I like your chart. Shows healthcare, especially to venders. Venders get half as much as DOD. And the overall cost of healthcare is 200 billion more than DOD. Education is also greater than DOD.



Well, seems like the laws need changing and we need to be able to negotiate with hospitals, insurance, pharma and so on, as a nation.

If you aint got healthy educated fed and prosperous people, there is nothing to defend, again, you strip the externalities from the DOD in the budget.

So, it is not an apples to apples comparison, how many of those vendor payments went to service related injuries? How much for GI education? You cant whine out of only one side of your mouth and expect to be seen other than as a propagandist.


GI education (GI Bill) comes out of the VA budget. Not everyone gets to use it. They closed my eligibility before I was able to retire at 20 years so I couldn't use it. Military education costs come out of the DOD budget. I have heard a figure that indicates an average of $100 K per trainee average with basic, advanced and continuing educatioon over a 20 year period. Each course has different costs tho.

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RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/11/2015 7:59:34 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		So, we are in agreement. No Veterans benefits are in the DOD budget, so saying it is smaller than something else is simply horseshit.





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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Lets cut this from the military budget - 3/11/2015 3:40:15 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/03/09/army-researchers-testing-strength-to-better-match-soldiers-jobs.html?ESRC=army-a.nl

Another concept for cutting the Military and VA budgets.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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