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RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/17/2014 5:38:58 PM   
ultragirly


Posts: 3
Joined: 9/13/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


A mass migration into the country outside of the laws is properly called an invasion and rather than facilitate invasions, it is the job of the commander-in-chief to challenge and oppose such invasions

It might be his job...but then, he could not be seen as the Great Humanitarian/Apologist

i simply want to see the people willing to cough up the money to prevent this. if there is all this tough talk, but the dough to it.
conveniently enough, the tough on crime community withholds the costs of enforcement as much as possible.

do i have a solution? certainly not, but neither do we have the money to guard the southern border, two coast lines and the sky efficiently as the "war on drugs" has demonstrated for decades.

btw, per congressional study are about 45% of H1B visas fraudulent. meaning it's not only people crossing the borders at night, but also those welcomed foreign workers and their employers who commit crimes.

should you work for a company and that company employs H1B people you can assume (by statistic) that about every second is a cheater or your employer respectively.

Microsoft has about 17.000 H1B people .... going to boycott them?



< Message edited by ultragirly -- 12/17/2014 5:58:53 PM >

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 8:59:00 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Aliens and lawful permanent residents are ineligible for Gov't benefits. This is a right wing fantasy boogie man. There's also nothing about this in the case cited by the OP. Your import is very similar to Sanity's (rabid personal dislike.)


Greencard Holders can be eligible (and rightly so, imo) for Government benefits.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 9:43:39 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Fox Anchor Is "Not A Lawyer, But" Defends "Exceedingly Strange" Immigration Decision Anyway

Fox News host Heather Nauert is calling a bizarre federal court opinion that found President Obama's executive action on immigration unconstitutional a "pretty simple" decision, despite the fact that even conservative legal experts have called it a stretch.

On the December 17 edition of Happening Now, Nauert turned to legal experts Robert Bianchi and Brian Claypool to discuss Judge Arthur Schwab's lower court ruling that, surprisingly, evaluated the constitutionality of the president's recent decision to exercise prosecutorial discretion and defer deportation for certain undocumented immigrants. Both Bianchi and Claypool explained that the judge's ruling had "no legal significance" and "doesn't make sense," but Nauert disagreed. Other conservative legal experts are also questioning how the judge came to this conclusion on an unrelated matter of civil immigration law, given the fact that neither party in this criminal case contested the constitutionality of Obama's executive order.

Although Nauert admitted that she is "not a lawyer," she nevertheless argued that the judge's decision "seems pretty simple":


just the video is hilarious

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(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 10:34:27 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Aliens and lawful permanent residents are ineligible for Gov't benefits. This is a right wing fantasy boogie man. There's also nothing about this in the case cited by the OP. Your import is very similar to Sanity's (rabid personal dislike.)

People who leave their countries, leave everything behind, hoping to find a new opportunity --- are the ones who built and made the USA what it is today. Why do you want to shit on that legacy with such a statement?




In one breath you are ok with them working here but not getting any benefits and in the next you claim they are the ones who made the us what it is today. So tell me when one shows up sick at a hospital is it ok if we tell them "sorry cloudboy says you don't get benefits" and send them home?

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(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 10:49:13 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2014/12/Juarez-Escobar.pdf

US V Juarez-Escobar appears to be the first case of what will probably be many on the executive action of Obama on immigration. Obama lost in the Western District Court of PA. Interesting read regardless of which side of the aisle you are on.


It looks as though this ruling leaves open challenges to Marbury v. Madison.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 11:18:21 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Aliens and lawful permanent residents are ineligible for Gov't benefits. This is a right wing fantasy boogie man. There's also nothing about this in the case cited by the OP. Your import is very similar to Sanity's (rabid personal dislike.)

People who leave their countries, leave everything behind, hoping to find a new opportunity --- are the ones who built and made the USA what it is today. Why do you want to shit on that legacy with such a statement?




In one breath you are ok with them working here but not getting any benefits and in the next you claim they are the ones who made the us what it is today. So tell me when one shows up sick at a hospital is it ok if we tell them "sorry cloudboy says you don't get benefits" and send them home?

You are traveling in a foreign country. You get seriously ill or injured. Would you want the hospital to say, "Sorry, but you're not a citizen?"

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 11:19:23 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Obama has said the emphasis should be on aliens who have committed criminal acts and not on Aliens who have US citizen children and spouses who have lived in the USA for over 5 years.



That emphasis might be oversimplified. Is someone who manages to stay under the radar for years necessarily a better citizen than someone who gets caught with a joint as soon as they get here?



cloudboy, I don't know to which "benefits" you refer, but a quick internet search finds me this:

"The programs available to illegal aliens are Head Start, Special Supplemental Food Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC), the school lunch program, emergency medical treatment and labor and delivery services under Medicaid and AFDC for their citizen children." (that was from an eHow site and those seem like "benefits" of a sort to me)

However, if you are talking more traditional benefits, you might want to look here: http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/GR/Executive_Amnesty_Federal_Benefits_11-17-2014.pdf

here is the conclusion of that piece:

"Through a maze of statutes and regulations, aliens granted deferred action or parole in place will be eligible for many public benefits. This is true even though they are still illegal aliens. To summarize:

Aliens with parole for less than a year are eligible for Obamacare, Social Security, EITC, Unemployment, and Medicare (with sufficient authorized work history). Paroled aliens, whether for less than a year or greater, who are children and pregnant women are also eligible for health care benefits through Medicaid and SCHIP in states that have opted to cover them.

Aliens with parole for more than a year retain their eligibility for Obamacare, Social Security, EITC, Unemployment, and Medicare. If they are children or pregnant women, they are also eligible for health care benefits through Medicaid and SCHIP in states that have opted to cover them. Finally, because paroled aliens become qualified aliens after a year, paroled aliens become eligible for all federal public benefits after 6 years, including SCHIP and TANF.

Finally, aliens with deferred action are eligible for Obamacare, Social Security, EITC, Unemployment, Medicare (with sufficient authorized work history). If they are children and pregnant women, they are also eligible for health care benefits through Medicaid and SCHIP in states that have opted to cover them."

(in reply to hot4bondage)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 11:23:16 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I'm OK with feeding hungry kids rather than being a political asshole.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 11:34:33 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I wonder. A man walks up to a Senator that is unpopular with the POTUS and DOJ and kills him (manner of death not important) in front of C-Span while it is running. Using prosecutorial descrition they decide not to prosecute. But the POTUS will no grant amnesty. What would happen? Just musing since this discretion is at issue here.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 11:37:20 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		What color is the sun in your world?

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 11:37:24 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Obama has said the emphasis should be on aliens who have committed criminal acts and not on Aliens who have US citizen children and spouses who have lived in the USA for over 5 years.



That emphasis might be oversimplified. Is someone who manages to stay under the radar for years necessarily a better citizen than someone who gets caught with a joint as soon as they get here?

It also ignores the fact that they have committed a criminal act by being here "without documentation"

A good percentage of illegal immigrants came to the US legally on legit visas which expired and that is just a misdemeanor (like jaywalking), and not criminal act..


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 11:48:12 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Aliens and lawful permanent residents are ineligible for Gov't benefits. This is a right wing fantasy boogie man. There's also nothing about this in the case cited by the OP. Your import is very similar to Sanity's (rabid personal dislike.)

People who leave their countries, leave everything behind, hoping to find a new opportunity --- are the ones who built and made the USA what it is today. Why do you want to shit on that legacy with such a statement?




In one breath you are ok with them working here but not getting any benefits and in the next you claim they are the ones who made the us what it is today. So tell me when one shows up sick at a hospital is it ok if we tell them "sorry cloudboy says you don't get benefits" and send them home?

You are traveling in a foreign country. You get seriously ill or injured. Would you want the hospital to say, "Sorry, but you're not a citizen?"


No I wouldn't. But I never claimed to be ok with this, that was cloudboy. Now DS did come along and show that he was wrong but that doesn't change the fact that he was ok with it. I wonder if he would have been standing behind the idea if a right winger had suggested it.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 11:52:53 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Obama has said the emphasis should be on aliens who have committed criminal acts and not on Aliens who have US citizen children and spouses who have lived in the USA for over 5 years.



That emphasis might be oversimplified. Is someone who manages to stay under the radar for years necessarily a better citizen than someone who gets caught with a joint as soon as they get here?

It also ignores the fact that they have committed a criminal act by being here "without documentation"

A good percentage of illegal immigrants came to the US legally on legit visas which expired and that is just a misdemeanor (like jaywalking), and not criminal act..




I think you mean felony not criminal act. Saying it's a misdemeanor not a criminal act is like saying that object on my desk is a orange not a piece of fruit.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 12:19:05 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Obama has said the emphasis should be on aliens who have committed criminal acts and not on Aliens who have US citizen children and spouses who have lived in the USA for over 5 years.



That emphasis might be oversimplified. Is someone who manages to stay under the radar for years necessarily a better citizen than someone who gets caught with a joint as soon as they get here?

It also ignores the fact that they have committed a criminal act by being here "without documentation"

A good percentage of illegal immigrants came to the US legally on legit visas which expired and that is just a misdemeanor (like jaywalking), and not criminal act..




I think you mean felony not criminal act. Saying it's a misdemeanor not a criminal act is like saying that object on my desk is a orange not a piece of fruit.

"The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) contains only civil penalties for an immigrant who overstays her visa. This means that immigrants with an expired visa will not be charged criminally or serve time in jail."

http://www.ehow.com/facts_6107442_crime-overstaying-visa_.html


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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 1:54:57 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		That has nothing to do with what I said.

_____________________________

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(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 2:05:58 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		It really does.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 2:18:26 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Most Green Card Holders become citizens after five years. (That is when they are eligible.)

Family based Green Card Holders have relatives who promise to support them if they become needy, because they are ineligible for Gov't assistance after getting a green card.

The industrious contribution of immigrants far outweighs any drag they might add to the system. Most immigrants are young, industrious, and live here with a strong work ethic / and family values -- supporting children, parents, etc.

Last thing: history is not on the side of the nativists. A nativist cannot point to a single example in US history where immigration hurt the US economy or job market.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/18/2014 2:21:26 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 3:12:08 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Fox Anchor Is "Not A Lawyer, But" Defends "Exceedingly Strange" Immigration Decision Anyway
Fox News host Heather Nauert is calling a bizarre federal court opinion that found President Obama's executive action on immigration unconstitutional a "pretty simple" decision, despite the fact that even conservative legal experts have called it a stretch.
On the December 17 edition of Happening Now, Nauert turned to legal experts Robert Bianchi and Brian Claypool to discuss Judge Arthur Schwab's lower court ruling that, surprisingly, evaluated the constitutionality of the president's recent decision to exercise prosecutorial discretion and defer deportation for certain undocumented immigrants. Both Bianchi and Claypool explained that the judge's ruling had "no legal significance" and "doesn't make sense," but Nauert disagreed. Other conservative legal experts are also questioning how the judge came to this conclusion on an unrelated matter of civil immigration law, given the fact that neither party in this criminal case contested the constitutionality of Obama's executive order.
Although Nauert admitted that she is "not a lawyer," she nevertheless argued that the judge's decision "seems pretty simple":
just the video is hilarious


I'm sure that was meant to be an "FR" because it had nothing to do with my post...

But, a conservative judge ruling something unconstitutional that the Obama White House has done means that it's going to go up to the next higher level of the judicial system, or will be ignored as a partisan hatchet job. In a perfect world, judges that erroneously rule strictly along party lines should lose their judgeships after enough poor decisions.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 3:21:23 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Most Green Card Holders become citizens after five years. (That is when they are eligible.)
Family based Green Card Holders have relatives who promise to support them if they become needy, because they are ineligible for Gov't assistance after getting a green card.
The industrious contribution of immigrants far outweighs any drag they might add to the system. Most immigrants are young, industrious, and live here with a strong work ethic / and family values -- supporting children, parents, etc.
Last thing: history is not on the side of the nativists. A nativist cannot point to a single example in US history where immigration hurt the US economy or job market.


Green Card Holders that become citizens are no longer considered "lawful permanent residents" (they are now "citizens"). That they can receive government benefits as green card holders seems to be contrary to your claim that they can't. If you read the article, some of the benefits in some States, require 5 years of legal presence and 40 quarters of verified work. There's a reason for that being there, I'm sure.

You can drop the strawman argument, though. There are only a few people here that might oppose all immigration. The rest who you are arguing against, oppose only illegal immigration.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Immigration Action Unconstitutional - 12/18/2014 6:57:49 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Obama has said the emphasis should be on aliens who have committed criminal acts and not on Aliens who have US citizen children and spouses who have lived in the USA for over 5 years.



That emphasis might be oversimplified. Is someone who manages to stay under the radar for years necessarily a better citizen than someone who gets caught with a joint as soon as they get here?

It also ignores the fact that they have committed a criminal act by being here "without documentation"

A good percentage of illegal immigrants came to the US legally on legit visas which expired and that is just a misdemeanor (like jaywalking), and not criminal act..


Hate to inform you but a misdemeanor is a criminal act,

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Profile   Post #: 40
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