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RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 3:55:37 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So where do you suppose ignitable water comes from? Why do you suppose it only happens where fracking has been done?



Thats just not true.

You can find "igniteable" water in many locations in the US with no difficulty. Basically, anytime you have significant amounts of decaying vegetation in aerobic conditions, the decomposition will yield methane. Which, when run through a nozzle will be "igniteable".



Like, for example, where, other than fracking areas, is there ignitable water coming from the faucet?

Specific examples. Since it's no difficulty.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 4:14:46 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Flammable water wells could come from improperly done drilling for natural gas; whether from a fracked well or not.

Flammable water wells can also come from an improperly developed water well that impinges on a gas strata. The well went through a gas strata and was improperly sealed. It turned out that the hugely graphic fireball from a kitchen faucet in the anti fracking movie "Gasland" was caused by the fellow's own water well being improperly done and not from any commercial well drilling leakage.

I could happen if they fucked up and you can fuck up your own water supply if you drill a well improperly. Investigation will tell the cause.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 4:17:24 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Sure doesn't seem to exonerate fracking, does it.

Especially when the water is fine before the fracking.


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/31/2014 4:18:10 PM >

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 5:08:22 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So where do you suppose ignitable water comes from? Why do you suppose it only happens where fracking has been done?


Actually, that's the fascinating part....it doesn't.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 5:09:57 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So where do you suppose ignitable water comes from? Why do you suppose it only happens where fracking has been done?



Thats just not true.

You can find "igniteable" water in many locations in the US with no difficulty. Basically, anytime you have significant amounts of decaying vegetation in aerobic conditions, the decomposition will yield methane. Which, when run through a nozzle will be "igniteable".




Thank you....(but let's not let facts alter the discussion).

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 5:14:42 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Lets see, shall we?

16 million vehicle sales per year. Average weight 4000 lbs. 64 billion lbs. 75% of that is recylced. 16 billion lbs therefor to the trash heap.
Note that this excludes any manufacturing waste.

Now, in the US we have 240 million cars on the road. Averaging cars and truck MPg.. it comes out right around 20mpg. We'll ignore commercial transportation to make it more favorable to you.

Per capita thats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_of_transport

330 million people times the average of 15000 miles per year divided by 20 mpg call it 250 billion gallons of gasoline.
The EPA has ruled that CO2 is a pollutant of course.. so one gallon of gasoline. call it 6lbs per gallon (we'll round down) 1.6 trillion pounds of waste.
Ignoring replaceables like tires, oil, windshield wipers.


On to fracking.
Lets presume that each well uses 1,000,000 gallons of water. Thats on the high side. Lets assume no recycling occurs although the industry average is 20%.
Each well injects .5% in fracking chemicals, or 5,0000 gallons of fracking chemicals. Methanol is the most common fracking fluid, and its density is about that of water, so we will round it to 7.5 lbs / gal. Call it 40,000 lbs.

There are at last count roughly 35000 wells. So call it 1.5 billion lbs of polutants per year.


Or less than 10% of just the dumped weight of automobiles, per year. And .1% of the aggregate total.

So I repeat. If you really want to go after pollution - why don't you go after automobiles?



Wouldn't that mean that the average citizen would have to curtail driving....instead of curtailing bitching about shit that was factually unrelated to the topic?

I think that would require a substantial amount of integrity given to the subject matter that is generally not a predicate to the goal at hand.

(I think you're asking for quite a bit here bucko).

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 5:17:11 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Flammable water wells could come from improperly done drilling for natural gas; whether from a fracked well or not.

Flammable water wells can also come from an improperly developed water well that impinges on a gas strata. The well went through a gas strata and was improperly sealed. It turned out that the hugely graphic fireball from a kitchen faucet in the anti fracking movie "Gasland" was caused by the fellow's own water well being improperly done and not from any commercial well drilling leakage.

I could happen if they fucked up and you can fuck up your own water supply if you drill a well improperly. Investigation will tell the cause.


I don't believe it.

Exxon is a criminal entity.

I don't believe that a film person would substitute hyperbole simply to make their point.

(I just don't buy it).

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 5:21:39 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So where do you suppose ignitable water comes from? Why do you suppose it only happens where fracking has been done?


Actually, that's the fascinating part....it doesn't.

And yet, no one can give me a specific example of where.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 5:43:20 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So where do you suppose ignitable water comes from? Why do you suppose it only happens where fracking has been done?


Actually, that's the fascinating part....it doesn't.

And yet, no one can give me a specific example of where.


It happens in areas where natural gas deposits exist. And drilling for natural gas, if improperly done, can contaminate an aquifer. It doesn't have to be a fracking operation.

For pop culture reports and nifty pictures, google is your friend.

http://www.ksla.com/story/24116649/dixie-family-finds-their-tap-water-is-flammable

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/oddnews/family-discovers-their-faucet-water-is-flammable-191347861.html

http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/tag/methane-migration/

http://ecowatch.com/2013/11/07/fracking-victim-sued-defamation-prove-water-flammable/

http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/tag/dimock/

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/06/19/1221635110.full.pdf+html

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 5:56:57 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		OK. So natural gas done badly is...bad.

Doesn't get fracking off the hook.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 6:04:48 PM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		Not to mention we haven't seen this kind of wide spread publicity about flammable water until fracking became the new kid on the drilling block

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 6:11:27 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So where do you suppose ignitable water comes from? Why do you suppose it only happens where fracking has been done?


Actually, that's the fascinating part....it doesn't.

And yet, no one can give me a specific example of where.


So....prove them wrong with the same stats you demand so fervently.

Bring it.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 6:14:30 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK. So natural gas done badly is...bad.

Doesn't get fracking off the hook.


Wait....hoooold on a sec here....you asked for proof that it doesn't happen except for where fracking takes place.

You were just handed the keys to the castle...now you're saying "but that doesn't change anything?"

I'm sorry....the planet we're all on....have you left it or were you just astral traveling momentarily?

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 6:18:15 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Not to mention we haven't seen this kind of wide spread publicity about flammable water until fracking became the new kid on the drilling block


Right....and we don't tend to see a lot of coverage about burn centers and keeping extra household gauze and mycitracin until generally the 5th of July.

(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 6:21:14 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK. So natural gas done badly is...bad.

Doesn't get fracking off the hook.


Wait....hoooold on a sec here....you asked for proof that it doesn't happen except for where fracking takes place.

You were just handed the keys to the castle...now you're saying "but that doesn't change anything?"

I'm sorry....the planet we're all on....have you left it or were you just astral traveling momentarily?

And acknowledged.

Point established...it can happen independently of fracking.

That doesn't establish that where it didn't happen, but happens after the fracking, means it's not the fracking.

On my planet, they teach logic. What planet are "you all" on?

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 6:21:27 PM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		Why 5th of July?

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 6:37:05 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK. So natural gas done badly is...bad.

Doesn't get fracking off the hook.


Wait....hoooold on a sec here....you asked for proof that it doesn't happen except for where fracking takes place.

You were just handed the keys to the castle...now you're saying "but that doesn't change anything?"

I'm sorry....the planet we're all on....have you left it or were you just astral traveling momentarily?

And acknowledged.

Point established...it can happen independently of fracking.

That doesn't establish that where it didn't happen, but happens after the fracking, means it's not the fracking.

On my planet, they teach logic. What planet are "you all" on?


On the one that mandates facts.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 3/31/2014 6:42:56 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So where do you suppose ignitable water comes from? Why do you suppose it only happens where fracking has been done?


Actually, that's the fascinating part....it doesn't.

And yet, no one can give me a specific example of where.


So....prove them wrong with the same stats you demand so fervently.

Bring it.

So they *don't* teach logic on your planet.

Burden of proof is on the positive claim.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 4/1/2014 5:28:38 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So where do you suppose ignitable water comes from? Why do you suppose it only happens where fracking has been done?


Actually, that's the fascinating part....it doesn't.

And yet, no one can give me a specific example of where.


So....prove them wrong with the same stats you demand so fervently.

Bring it.

So they *don't* teach logic on your planet.

Burden of proof is on the positive claim.


Kinda sounds like "he started it".

Prove your point man.

"Why do you suppose it only happens where fracking has been done?"

That simply isn't a factual statement.

So....you started it...prove your point.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 4/1/2014 5:29:02 PM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Fracking is perfectly safe.... - 4/1/2014 5:55:55 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Not to mention we haven't seen this kind of wide spread publicity about flammable water until fracking became the new kid on the drilling block



The only reason this widespread publicity exists is because of eco-terrorists lying (see gasland - where the flammable water was a documented hoax) and trying to use flammable water to get all fracking anywhere banned.

And for the record, I'm for requiring fracking companies to list their drilling compounds.
I'm for requiring recycling.

I'm for requiring extended liability, and liability reserves per well.


(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 40
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