RE: Meeting as Equals

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LadyHugs -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 11:16:43 AM)
Dear truesub4u, Ladies and Gentlemen; You wrote; quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u I personally do not treat all doms ....as doms.. just because of titles. I see them as people. Male and female. Nothing more...nothing less. I do not expect to be treated as a submissive by anyone. And I actually get offended when someone tries to make me submit to them with out even knowing my name or anything about me.. or me them..... those are the ones I step back from and have to laugh at sometimes. Now there are a few I do refer to as Ma'am.. or Mr. But it's the person I've come to have respect for. Not the title. And it comes from not just reading their post. But other communications as well. Either it be e-mail... phone calls.. IMs or off line meetings. But they have earned my respect as people.... My personal favorite line to support your statement/post, is that submission is a choice -- not a command. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

litleone8620 -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 11:17:26 AM)
I try to treat everyone with the same respect; it doesn't matter if they're dominant or submissive. Though i have, in the past, gave dominants more respect because that's what Master tells me to do. Though the minute they give me a reason to take that back, i will. Since i am not involved with anyone personally on this site, i treat everyone equally. If and when i become personally involved with someone, i'll show them the respect they deserve.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 11:21:47 AM)
Treating someone with respect and treating people equally are two very different issues. Focus people. Focus!!

Caretakr -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 11:23:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44 Treating someone with respect and treating people equally are two very different issues. Focus people. Focus!! I can treat property with respect. (which aids the comfort zone) But that still dosen't make it an equal.

MasterCurios -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 11:25:00 AM)
i expect a sub/slave to act according to who they are,as with the Doms/mes/Masters/Mistresses..as long as the once a sub or slave knows who you are and still becomes disrespectful even if it is only in protocol(one doesnt expect them to call one Master just because i say thats who i am)but Sir or just the cap on the name thats just how me and my pet do things and may seem far fetched w/o further explanantion and this could go on and on..i feel you get the overall picture here.i'll chat with anyone and treat them with respect till it becomes apparent that they have no clue or inkling to recipricate,then its time to cease.....

litleone8620 -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 11:29:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44 Treating someone with respect and treating people equally are two very different issues. Focus people. Focus!! I was using respect as an example of treating everyone equally. I understand the difference, and yes should probably have paid more attention to what the hell i was posting. Apologies.

amystery -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 11:30:24 AM)
I feel that respect is earned, so outside of a relationship, it would be perfectly acceptable for a Dom to defer to a sub out of respect. So while I self identify as a Dom, if I am in a discussion with someone who knows more than I, no matter what role they self identify as, I will defer to their wisdom. Inside a relationship you may have roles, which hopefully have been earned. Outside it, you have respect. I've noticed some people giving titles more weight than is necessarily deserved but not to a point that it is deterimental. In a forum if a sub calls every Dom Sir that is fine, so long as they still feel free to speak. As for Doms that think everyone should bow before them, that is just ego, and I know some people that love deflating those:) So in short, you earn respect. It is not granted just because you claim it.

DoctorDubious -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 11:41:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Disclaimer before reading this thread, it is not the intent of this opening post to debate whether a dominant and their sub are *equals within the context of their relationship... it is a more broad question for the board. I have often wondered whether or not dominants that post here view all submissives as unequal to them, not just the ones they own, but everyone that self identifies as a submissive. I have also wondered whether or not submissives view everyone that identifies as a dominant as someone who is their superior in some way, someone that deserves deferential treatment because they identify as a dominant. Do you consider whether or not someone is a sub or a dom when reading advice they post for example? Basically I am curious as to whether or not you view inequalities in your interactions with others on CM? Personally I haven't seen much of that, but I have seen it crop up occasionally and I wonder how others feel about this or if it is in my mind and doesn't exist at all. Hey, J, and all.... Under-utilized anthropologists seem to ask interesting questions. On this one, I'm sure I'll be off the main paths, because I have no real contact or connection with BDSM community, standard Dom airs and graces... whatever... Just the opinon of this bossy old goat.... >>equals within the context of their relationship* Equal? What's that? Isn't every human unique... isn't every relationship unique? Are we equal if you like sweet and I like savory? If you like serving, and I like service? I suspect that asking if people are equal is a bit like asking *if music is lighter than air...* It sounds reasonable, but adds confusion. ***************************** Some souls have deep, nourishing needs and desires to submit ... to surrender.... Others have cultural, or emotional, or hormonal programming that makes them happiest, healthiest, and most alive when they in charge, and in control. Domination is the term here, and in most places, though I personally think of it as Authority, Possession, and Ownership, because I made all my own shit up myself, in non-BDSM-community environments. Also, domination has such a physical connotation, and that's too easy..... big guys like me been pushing their weight around since creation... And... I really like the connotations of Possession and Ownership and the way they imply good care of the owned, of the possession. For example, when, once again, a woman and I discover each other, and over time.... dance the dance of submission and authority... and grow deeper, wider and stronger in that mutual exchange... Equality will NOT be an an issue there. We ain't equal in the relationship.... we are on totally different paths. So, if I direct my lover to kneel naked by my chair when friends are over, we are expressing our different paths... in a most unequal way. But we are still both spiritual creatures, created by G-d, on paths that lead to fuller, richer, purer expressions of who we really are. >>not you view inequalities in your interactions with others on CM I have owned 3 businesses, and been partner in a few more. Had lots of employees over the years, who "had to" do what I said... at work. So, of course I have fucked up royally by spraying testosterone-laden commands and orders around like a drunk skunk under a full moon. You can imagine. Most folks have even had crappy bosses, like I used to be. And... fuck if I don't look a bit like Dilbert's boss as well.... What I learned (this is just me talking) ... is.... treat everyone... everyone with politeness, dignity, and respect. When you do that, they are far more likely to do your bidding. But employees and not equal to employers ... not in the least. So ... just for this old goat..... until a serious and consenting exchange of power happens, .... we'ss all just folks on the planet .... tryin' to be happy and feel good. ********** Another example of inequality,` more personal than employment... which is boring anyways.... So, we're back at the chair where my lover is kneeling naked by me. Even though I told these visiting friends of some of the dynamics of my relationship with my lover.... they still often act "like lads" as the Brits say... "Cool.... what else can you make her do"? If I'm feeling playful, or wanna showboat a bit, or just shock the neighbors so they leave us out of their boring dinner parties.... I might lean down, lift up her beautifully bowed head, look her slow and long in the eyes .... .... wait until she feels my loving, insistant authority... ......... ........... ........ "My treasure ... you must suck me now** for a while....." Now who in their right mind would describe that as "equal". DD, just one frisky, bossy old goat.... PS... the neighbors will talk, but you never have to worry about having to see their pictures of that boring cruise down to the Panama canal they went on last month.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 12:04:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali I guess I just see D/s differently. People say their orientation is part of them, and those orientations of domination and submission are obviously different from each other, so why would I have to make everything and everyone the same to interact with someone. quote: People are people, no matter their kink/sexual/spiritual orientation. Two people entering into a relationship, no matter what kind, should come together as equal, consenting adults. THEN, the relationship dynamics can take hold Sorry to use your post for this example MasterFireMaam.... See what that statement says to me is, "equal, consenting adults THEN" means something other than someone who is dominant or submissive...as if being an adult means..I have to act some other way than submissive or dominant? I don't get the need for the differentiation. It's either an orientation or a play act? Which is it? I think its perfectly ok to be submissive within interactions, doesnt make me less adult, less intelligent, less anything.... No need to apologize...I understand what you're saying..I think. Let me back up. Our relationships are based on structure. The D or M sets up the structure and the s/s follows it. But, structure isn't enough to make a relationship work. There has to be some sort of compatibility, even in agreeing on the structure. There also has to be some underlying compatibility, too, for what happens when the relationship stumbles and the structure disappears? There has to be something there to hold it together until it is reestablished. I'm guess that all this is rather automatic for some, so we don't think about it. It just makes sense that a slave would find someone who, say, likes the kinds of foods they like to cook. Some people don't do that...they look for the kink first. But not everyone into bondage likes French Cuisine. So, my point isn't that we're just role playing here and that we should put that aside, but that we need to look at the WHOLE picture if we want REAL relationships. While the s/s clearly takes a place in the relationship that is below that of the D/M, it doesn't mean that the s/s, as a human being, is inferior to them (or anyone else). "Knowing your place" is totally different than "being inferior". Note: by inferior, I'm using the definition of "not being up to standards", so to speak. Perhaps you are using the definition of "being underneath a superior (as in like a boss)"? This might also explain why we seem to disagree. Clear as mud, maybe? LOL Master Fire

slavejali -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 12:11:54 PM)
hehe, yeah I get what you are saying [:)] We were just looking at different angles

Caretakr -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 12:19:40 PM)
I agree with this idea too. You have to look at the big picture,and build from the ground up. Sex and play are my lowest priorities. Having really decent and exciting things to share in the big game of life, really make it happen. I'm always happier when someone values my visions and dreams the same way I do-even if from a slightly different angle.[;)]

iliv2servher -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 12:24:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Disclaimer before reading this thread, it is not the intent of this opening post to debate whether a dominant and their sub are equals within the context of their relationship... it is a more broad question for the board. I have often wondered whether or not dominants that post here view all submissives as unequal to them, not just the ones they own, but everyone that self identifies as a submissive. I have also wondered whether or not submissives view everyone that identifies as a dominant as someone who is their superior in some way, someone that deserves deferential treatment because they identify as a dominant. Do you consider whether or not someone is a sub or a dom when reading advice they post for example? Basically I am curious as to whether or not you view inequalities in your interactions with others on CM? Personally I haven't seen much of that, but I have seen it crop up occasionally and I wonder how others feel about this or if it is in my mind and doesn't exist at all. Why would anyone not treat someone as an equal if they were not in a relationship with that person?

IrishMist -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 12:26:20 PM)
People are people; whether here or in RL. I treat them all the same, no matter what title they aspire to.

MistressSassy66 -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 12:28:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Disclaimer before reading this thread, it is not the intent of this opening post to debate whether a dominant and their sub are equals within the context of their relationship... it is a more broad question for the board. I have often wondered whether or not dominants that post here view all submissives as unequal to them, not just the ones they own, but everyone that self identifies as a submissive. I have also wondered whether or not submissives view everyone that identifies as a dominant as someone who is their superior in some way, someone that deserves deferential treatment because they identify as a dominant. Do you consider whether or not someone is a sub or a dom when reading advice they post for example? Basically I am curious as to whether or not you view inequalities in your interactions with others on CM? Personally I haven't seen much of that, but I have seen it crop up occasionally and I wonder how others feel about this or if it is in my mind and doesn't exist at all. I personally treat everyone the same whether they are Dom or sub. The advice anyone gives is from their own point of view which is what makes us look at things from all angles. Underneath it all we are all only human.

WayWardSoul -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 1:04:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali I dont see dominant and submissives as equal, just as I dont see a dog and a cat as being equal. They aren't less by their inequality though, just different. I do view dominant and submissives posts differently, because basically they are coming from a different perspective on some subjects. I have to agree with this train of thought. It all depends on what point of view I'm looking for from the topic. One time it might be from the D/M, i'm look to get the perspective from. The next I might want it from the s/s, but that also hold true if I'm looking for answers from Dom/Masters compared to Domme/Mistress or the other way around. I also think you have to take into account if your looking for the view of the Dom vs. Master, Domme vs. Mistress, sub vs slave . I don't feel that makes anyone have less value or not be equals just a different point of view.

juliaoceania -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 1:48:28 PM)
Im replying to my own opening post partially because there was so much stated by EVERYONE that responded that was on the mark and it would be hard to take a little from what everyone had to say. I asked this question because of my own perceptions about how sometimes I have seen a submissive post something, her input ignored, and then a dominant post the same thing a few posts down and a lot of people going out of their way to agree with him/her. It just sometimes seems as though this works on an unconscious level, and I may be guilty of it myself as far as I know. For the most part the dominants and submissives that post on CM tend to post with forethought and respect.. even when passionately disagreeing there is a sense of this underlying respect for each other most of the time.. I adore this about CM, so it isn't the respect issue I was addressing so much as giving equal weight to who posts based on orientation. I guess this inequality I have sensed at times could be due to gender bias, age bias, or cultural capital that those posting here for a long time have gained within the community... I may have perceived this incorrectly at times. Like I said, I am replying to my own post so I will give my opinion on it..smiles... I used to have a bias against dommes, which I did not know existed until I started posting here and found several dommes that I really admire as far as the ideas they express on CM. I admit this after acknowledging it was there and now I do not feel this way at all anymore. I think I had a head problem when it came to the idea of another female ordering me around or "domming" me was extremely uncomfortable to me. Perhaps that used to shade how I viewed some of the posts made by dommes... it is silly I know, but there it is... a slight bias I was able to overcome by exposure to dommes on this board. Just my thoughts

Bearlee -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 2:02:08 PM)
While I see the worth of both Dominants and submissives as equal...I do not treat them the same. Does that make sense? If I know the ‘persuasion’ of a person by their nick-name, I automatically respond to that persuasion IN them. I can’t help it. By the same token, if I get to know someone here, I find myself responding to the way they profess their orientation; whether it be D/s or M/s or T/b or whatever. I respond differently to a Dominant than I do a submissive…but that’s sorta the point, isn’t it? Of course, I wouldn’t EXPECT a person to be either Dominant OR submissive TOWARDS me…but I do respond to them differently. I also notice that, while I still treat them equally…I have about little interest (BDSM-wise) with ‘vanilla’ folks. I have no interest in bringing them to the ‘dark side’. LOL MOO; MNSHO........YMMV

zumala -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 2:03:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Disclaimer before reading this thread, it is not the intent of this opening post to debate whether a dominant and their sub are equals within the context of their relationship... it is a more broad question for the board. I have often wondered whether or not dominants that post here view all submissives as unequal to them, not just the ones they own, but everyone that self identifies as a submissive. I have also wondered whether or not submissives view everyone that identifies as a dominant as someone who is their superior in some way, someone that deserves deferential treatment because they identify as a dominant. Do you consider whether or not someone is a sub or a dom when reading advice they post for example? Basically I am curious as to whether or not you view inequalities in your interactions with others on CM? Personally I haven't seen much of that, but I have seen it crop up occasionally and I wonder how others feel about this or if it is in my mind and doesn't exist at all. Quick reply. I'll read through the thread and add anything further that may seem necessary. I personally do not think a person's worthiness is based on whether they are submissive, dominant, or vanilla. It has to do with who they are as an individual. Although I have heard of and occasionally seen a person acting as though they feel there is an unequality between the dom and sub groups. Interesting question, julia. Thanks. zuma

wild1cfl -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 3:05:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I asked this question because of my own perceptions about how sometimes I have seen a submissive post something, her input ignored, and then a dominant post the same thing a few posts down and a lot of people going out of their way to agree with him/her. It just sometimes seems as though this works on an unconscious level, and I may be guilty of it myself as far as I know. I have not really noticed this before, but it definitely makes me start to think about it and wonder. I do not really notice whether a person posting is a Dominant or a submissive, I usually try and reply because I have something to say about their post. There are many submissive's who have alot of great things to say here in the forums, as well there are many Dominants who have great things to say. I know that I have learned something from each individual poster whether "D" or "s" I also hope that we have more good discussions like this that are thoughtful and present a person's perceptions well enough to make us all think about it for a few minutes.

songofeire -> RE: Meeting as Equals (7/7/2006 3:22:22 PM)
This question made me think about the various meanings of the word equal...such as equal in what way, and does having power make you better than, and does reliquishing power make you less than, and other odd mental meanderings. As groups, I do not believe that Dominants have greater value than submissives. The relationship between them is symbiotic...they need each other equally, in order to have the meetings or the lives that they want. Within a relationship, it might at first seem that the Dominant's needs are the ones being served, until one looks deeper and sees that the submissive's need to serve and obey are just as important to her as his are to him. In fact, I have sometimes wondered if it isn't that the satisfaction of my craving for the sensations of total surrender may be what I seek...that the Dominant who can best make me need to obey and submit is threfore the one I most want to serve. So then, who is serving whom? The only satisfactory answer to who's on top, lies, again, in the concept of symbiosis. And symbiosis implies equality of partners, even if one serves, and one is being served. Rosemary SongOfEire

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