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RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 12:43:27 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Mall security isn't armed. All she kept trying to pull out were handcuffs.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 12:48:13 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 12:50:39 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		Lawdy. This is so hilarious, I expect it to be a joke. It's like a female Barney Fife tryin to arrest the Darlin brothers.

That said, if it is real, what a stupid fucking "security guard". Even Barney would know better than to attack a chick wearin a helmet and shit kickin boots. Good for the chick, she fought til she had control, nothing more.

I still am laughing so hard though, it seems so fucking fake. lawd, this world we live in is funny.


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yep

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RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 12:52:09 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		I'm going to have to amend my earlier comment on mall ninja after watching that video again. The woman was a "Barney Fife" respect-mah-authoritah kind of mall guard. The kind that wanted so bad to be a real cop but failed to make the grade.

And yes, everyone in that group with the possible exception of that guy at the end behaved poorly. The mall guard should have immediately called for backup from either the staff or police, the spectators should have thought beyond a viral video, and the biker-chick should have taken a fall.

Seriously, she could have made a fortune off that mall if the guard had assaulted her and placed her under false arrest. It's an ugly way to look at it, but that's how I see it.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

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RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 12:55:18 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Mall security isn't armed. All she kept trying to pull out were handcuffs.

Do you KNOW that for certain?
Are you willing to wake up in a place that smells like antiseptic for that belief?

As for the handcuffs, if someone isn't a duly sworn and identified law enforcement officer (or a really fucking hot redhead) they aren't going to handcuff me.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 12:58:41 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		In a non-threatening situation (no guns, knives, alcohol, etc) a cop will not touch your person before stating that he is placing you under arrest (and why). Mall cop either had insufficient training or chose to ignore it. She acted completely innapropriately. All she needed to do was to call it in, either to her supervisor or to the real police. Yes, the group were acting like jerks but we still have that right (for the most part). The mall cop crossed the line when she poked/touched/whatever the girl with the helmet. Someone needs to look into the training (if any) provided by the security service - it is clearly not efective.

How this should have gone down:
Mall Cop: Hey folks, I need to ask you to stop taking photos - the mall has very strict rules about the use of cameras.
Group: We're not taking pictures of the mall - did you see that accident over there?!
MC: I understand but it's not up to me. I do need to ask that you folks move along.

If the group fails to comply then MC needs to report the incident. That is usually enough to get a small group like this to move along. If they still don't move on, all the other available mall cops would typically decend upon the scene along with a real cop or two. MC blew it from the start with her Respect my authoritay! attitude.




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RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 1:01:54 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

In a non-threatening situation (no guns, knives, alcohol, etc) a cop will not touch your person before stating that he is placing you under arrest (and why).

100% correct and if you are polite and treat them as a professional doing their job as you tell them you had shoulder surgery a year or so previous, they will let you put your own hands behind your back and be quite gentle thru the process.
Don't ask me how I know this.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 5/24/2013 1:02:21 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to ThatDaveGuy69)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 3:03:58 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

In a non-threatening situation (no guns, knives, alcohol, etc) a cop will not touch your person before stating that he is placing you under arrest (and why).

100% correct and if you are polite and treat them as a professional doing their job as you tell them you had shoulder surgery a year or so previous, they will let you put your own hands behind your back and be quite gentle thru the process.
Don't ask me how I know this.


Probably the same way I know herbal therapy is awesome. You read a lot dontcha?






_____________________________

yep

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 4:41:49 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Mall security isn't armed. All she kept trying to pull out were handcuffs.

Do you KNOW that for certain?
Are you willing to wake up in a place that smells like antiseptic for that belief?

As for the handcuffs, if someone isn't a duly sworn and identified law enforcement officer (or a really fucking hot redhead) they aren't going to handcuff me.


Actually, yes I am certain. While there may be some places it is permitted, as a general rule, mall security is NOT armed.

Everyone of those spectators could tell whether she was armed or not, even if you couldn't in the video.

Apparently, in that area, mall security can carry handcuffs, and detain someone, however, none of that means she is putting someone in imminent danger and they have a right to put her on the ground and punch her half a dozen times. That isn't "subduing" someone.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 7:15:28 PM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Apparently, in that area, mall security can carry handcuffs, and detain someone, however, none of that means she is putting someone in imminent danger and they have a right to put her on the ground and punch her half a dozen times. That isn't "subduing" someone.


No Ma'am. It isn't subduing someone. And that isn't what that person was trying to do. The Mall Pig is the one trying to subdue... ...a non-violent non-suspect. The non-violent non-suspect used her constitutional right to punch a richly deserving idiot, a few times. Not several. Regarding excess ; please note that at no time did the Mall Pig stop exceeding her authority.

I don't know what country you grew to manhood in, Ma'am, but here in the United States we have this thing called the Bill of Rights.

Example? Okay. Here is a picture of ME, ...not getting arrested.

EDIT : Grammer



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by FrostedFlake -- 5/24/2013 7:18:08 PM >

_____________________________

Frosted Flake
simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 9:26:18 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		In Detroit, everyone is armed and the mall retard would have been shot the instant she stepped up and long before she made physical contact.

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RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 9:30:24 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

quote:

Apparently, in that area, mall security can carry handcuffs, and detain someone, however, none of that means she is putting someone in imminent danger and they have a right to put her on the ground and punch her half a dozen times. That isn't "subduing" someone.


No Ma'am. It isn't subduing someone. And that isn't what that person was trying to do. The Mall Pig is the one trying to subdue... ...a non-violent non-suspect. The non-violent non-suspect used her constitutional right to punch a richly deserving idiot, a few times. Not several. Regarding excess ; please note that at no time did the Mall Pig stop exceeding her authority.

I don't know what country you grew to manhood in, Ma'am, but here in the United States we have this thing called the Bill of Rights.

Example? Okay. Here is a picture of ME, ...not getting arrested.



Insults aside, the girl in the helmet does NOT have a constitutional right to punch the mall security officer a "few" (which is the same thing as several by the way) times. I would guess from the picture, you seem to think that you can not listen to police. If your attitude is anything like you just showed me, well then, I would say you resisted and earned what you got.

I'm very aware of the Bill of Rights, but for shits and giggles, why don't you point us all to the place that says the girl had a right to take her to the ground and pound her face "a few" times?

(in reply to FrostedFlake)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/24/2013 10:05:52 PM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline 		You miss totally, twice.

A Mall Cop is not a real cop. They have no more authority than I do.

Talking to cops with blood on my face and sending then on their way is quite a distance from :
quote:

I would guess from the picture, you seem to think that you can not listen to police. If your attitude is anything like you just showed me, well then, I would say you resisted and earned what you got.


Frankly, Ma'am, I frequently find you offensive and on occasion I find you appalling. You remind me of the neighbor lady three doors down, without a clue and always telling other people what to do. The fantasy world you inhabit might seem real to you, but where I live, when one gal strikes another she usually gets hit right back. Mall Cop or not.

quote:

I'm very aware of the Bill of Rights, but for shits and giggles, why don't you point us all to the place that says the girl had a right to take her to the ground and pound her face "a few" times?


Amendment Four :
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

_____________________________

Frosted Flake
simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/25/2013 8:48:42 AM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline 		Pretty much everyone on that video are classless white trash idiots.

There, that is my opinion.

They could do with some charm school lessons....and probably a bath and a razor (particularly the helmet girl lol)

That said, that cop girl probably got beat up a lot in school....just saying

(in reply to FrostedFlake)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/25/2013 9:33:14 AM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		It wouldn't be a Constitutional question, more of a state/local statute question as to if charges are pressed. Depending on the locale and situation, security guards/officers (there is a big difference depending on the wording here) have some of the protections afforded to the police regarding public interactions. They have to, because they have to have arrest powers to detain shoplifters.

That being said, those powers don't extend as far as they would if she were a LEO. Before I started as a bouncer,I had received training in both Cat II Peach Officer (UT), and Professional Armed Security (PSO Certificate) in the same state. More than half the curriculum was in use of force and limitations. In some jurisdictions, on-site security's powers can change literally by just going through a doorway. On one side of the threshhold, the have full warranted arrest powers, one step over, and they can be charged with assault and unlawful imprisonment, even if it's technically on mall property.

LEOs are turf-conscious, and have the backing of state law. They don't like ceding that to someone who takes six hours of company training and a poorly-fitting uniform. I can't say what the laws are where this incident occured, but the ones at a mall near me aren't permitted to do anything more than report, observe, and call the local PD when something happens in the parking lot. The only time they would be permitted to intervene is if someone's life were in imminent danger, the same as anybody else. And the fact she was there by herself said a lot of things to me.

Why was she alone? Why didn't she call for assistance before stepping in? Was she jumping into the scene to score points with her company or to add to her resume? Or did her supervisor send her there to see how she handled it? Or was she sent there with the full knowledge she'd screw up and they'd have a legitimate reason to fire her?

As a caveat, I never worked as mall security-the only uniformed security I did was a short gig doing nothing more than watching the parking lot of a bar and a temp job at ParkWest for a Grateful Dead concert where all I did was direct traffic and tell people to be a little more discreet about their recreational material usage. And it doubly-sucked that I couldn't see the band and couldn't hear them that well either.




_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to cordeliasub)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/25/2013 10:38:25 AM   
MistressJude


Posts: 89
Joined: 1/8/2005
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Ya gotta love square badges!

To answer one of the questions: why are people not allowed to take photos?

Since the attacks over a decade ago, this country has instituted ridiculous measures aimed at stopping terrorism (ain't gonna happen, folks). Since malls are considered targets for terrorism, they forbid photos being taken in case some group decides to take photos of the mall in order to plan an attack.

It's silly but it's the world in which we live.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


This only holds true if the mall had clearly displayed signs advising that photographs were prohibited. As far as this specifically went you can clearly see that the group was not near the mall and their photographic and video evidence shows they were filming the wreck rather than pointing at the mall.

While the officer did have the right to tell them to vacate the property. However, this is also dependant upon the individual mall policies. Some policies state ONLY that persons under 18-years-old cannot loiter in the parking lots. On a technicality, I believe - from what I could see in the video - is that if they simply stepped past the guardrail they would likely have then been on county property and not mall property. The trickery here is that while the mall is, technically, private property it is a public access spot and therein lies some of the difficulty in determining just who and when people can be told to leave.

Now, mall security can detain a person under reasonable suspicion of theft or other crimes. However, the guard clearly made a threatening action by reaching for the woman's throat. It was after that when the woman responded. She attempted to subdue the woman (the few punches may have been excess but in the heat of the moment it could have been deemed otherwise). When the guard continued her attempts the girl responded in methods to get free and to subdue. Once the guard was in a headlock the girl did not attempt to continue an assault but was attempting to restrain the guard.

This guard may have had an off day. May have felt overly empowered. And even if she was right in her claims that she can have the ejected from the property standard protocol would have been for her to contact local police to the scene to have them removed. Instead the guard felt entirely within her own rights to take on a group (did she think she was Wonder Woman?) She was extremely lucky that the others opted not to intervene. As she has now been released from her job this does indicate that they admitted wrong doing on her part. Now it remains to be seen who charges who.

_____________________________

Sir Jude
*Don't be afraid to go out on a limb... that's where all the fruit is*
**The best way to make a dream come true is to wake up**

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/25/2013 10:44:36 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

In a non-threatening situation (no guns, knives, alcohol, etc) a cop will not touch your person before stating that he is placing you under arrest (and why).

100% correct and if you are polite and treat them as a professional doing their job as you tell them you had shoulder surgery a year or so previous, they will let you put your own hands behind your back and be quite gentle thru the process.
Don't ask me how I know this.


Probably the same way I know herbal therapy is awesome. You read a lot dontcha?






Wrong on both counts.
It was a prelude to a few hours in the lockup over a misunderstanding which a kindly judge helped straighten out to my satisfaction.  I haven't partaken in herbal therapy in years.
I treated the officer as a professional and he did likewise including my reasonable request to be gentle with a surgically repaired shoulder.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/25/2013 10:46:17 AM   
MistressJude


Posts: 89
Joined: 1/8/2005
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

The guard didn't *attack* anyone. Yes, she was behaving inappropriately, but no one there was in fear for their safety, and you know it. It was a mob mentality of "we'll show her."


But the guard did. She continued to make advancing threats by getting into people's faces and when she went for the woman she went for the throat. This is, by all means, an attack. At that point the girl put her hands on the guard's throat. Again, as I said in my previous post, the punches could be deemed excessive but the guard continued to struggle while beneath the girl and was thoroughly intent on getting her in cuffs. As they flipped and the girl's hands became restrained she resorted to kicks and pushing with her feet. Neither was letting up and as the guard continued to press the issue the girl continued to press her defense. And even through all the high adrenaline of it all once the guard was thoroughly restrained in a headlock the girl did not continue with any more assault. And you can see the tenacity of the guard still trying to continue the B.S. after the guy came over and broke them up and the guard STILL tried to cuff her almost causing yet another scuffle.

I'm not sure if you've ever been in a fight. Instinct and adrenaline kicks in and sometimes the "stop" part of the brain is taken over entirely. This is very easily why the punches flew. Additionally, we couldn't get a clear view of the guard's hands while she was underneath, who could say the guard wasn't punching the girl in the stomach or attempting to bend back her wrist into a pressure hold?

_____________________________

Sir Jude
*Don't be afraid to go out on a limb... that's where all the fruit is*
**The best way to make a dream come true is to wake up**

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/25/2013 10:49:42 AM   
MistressJude


Posts: 89
Joined: 1/8/2005
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Mall security isn't armed. All she kept trying to pull out were handcuffs.


When I first saw her reaching for her belt I thought it was either a gun, taser, or even mace. Any of these things are threatening and dangerous. However, depending on the state and location SOME mall security are, in fact, armed. You cannot make a blanket statement that none are armed. Furthermore, "armed" could mean a baton, mace/spray, or taser. If I saw someone reaching for their utility belt my IMMEDIATE instinct is that I'm in danger and that they're pulling a weapon.

_____________________________

Sir Jude
*Don't be afraid to go out on a limb... that's where all the fruit is*
**The best way to make a dream come true is to wake up**

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Mall Cop Gets Taken Down - 5/25/2013 10:50:20 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


Actually, yes I am certain. While there may be some places it is permitted, as a general rule, mall security is NOT armed.

Everyone of those spectators could tell whether she was armed or not, even if you couldn't in the video.


1.  Are you willing to bet your life on "a general rule'?  I'm not

2.  I daresay you havent spent much time around people who routinely go armed.  You'd be amazed at the kinda stuff you can carry around and noone knows.  That's why cops frisk people instead of just looking them over.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 40
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