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Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 5:29:47 AM   
Kirata


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Parents consider lawsuit to block Yoga instruction

~AP Story

...the lesson begins with deep breathing and stretches common to many yoga classes. But there is no chanting of "om," no words spoken in the Indian language of Sanskrit nor talk of "mindfulness" or clasping hands in the prayer position.

Campbell avoids those potential pitfalls for the Encinitas Union School District, which is facing the threat of a lawsuit as it launches what is believed to be the country's most comprehensive yoga program for a public school system.

Parents opposed to the program say the classes will indoctrinate their children in Eastern religion and are not just for exercise...

Mary Eady pulled her first-grade son out of the classes.

Eady said she observed a kindergarten class in which the children did the motions referred to in yoga practices as a sun salutation. The folded over children, stood upright, sweeping up their arms toward the sky.

She said while the teacher called it an "opening sequence" the connotation was the same in her mind: Students were learning to worship the sun, which went against her Christian beliefs that only God should be worshipped.

"It will change the way you think," she said. "What they are teaching is inherently spiritual, it's just inappropriate therefore in our public schools."


The article points to the problem:

Despite the long debate over prayer in school, constitutional law experts say the courts still have not clearly defined what constitutes religion.

"You might get litigation on a program like this because it's not totally settled what the boundaries of religion are," said New York University law professor Adam Samaha.


With a parent poised to argue that yoga is "inherently spiritual," the situation gives promise of becoming interesting. We would have to confront the question of whether or not we even can disambiguate practices like yoga and meditation from religion. And if we can, whether it's a distinction without a difference for First Amendment purposes.

Thoughts? Comments?

K.
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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 5:36:46 AM   
Moonhead


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My main thought is that if this woman's that bloody stupid, she isn't competent to be raising kids in the first place.
Still, if stopping her child doing a form of low impact exercise that doesn't provide an avenue for bullying and will do more to improve the kid's posture than anything short of serious gymnastics training over ridiculous hysterical paranoia will make her feel closer to God, I suppose that's her prerogative.

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 12/17/2012 5:37:53 AM >


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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 6:26:48 AM   
kalikshama


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I do find yoga to be a spiritual practice, but it is not a religion, as I am sure will be revealed if the lawsuit is allowed to proceed.

Surya Namaskara is not found in the Hatha Yoga Pradipika or Sritattvanidhi as such but modern Sun Salutations were influenced by British Army calisthenics - no sun worshiping there.

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 6:42:06 AM   
jlf1961


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Give me a break.

Next it will be something about nap time.

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 6:46:54 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Never underestimate the power of ignorant people in large groups.

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 6:52:33 AM   
jlf1961


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Hillwilliam, I am sorry to say this, but considering recent insane, non-violent stands by groups and individuals, I believe you are referring to 99% of the human race.

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 6:58:01 AM   
Owner59


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This is new to you?


Fundies have been at this for some time now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1fVeGRdn-A

This alt-reality crap is like half of what we talk about here..... 

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 7:32:43 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Never underestimate the power of ignorant people in large groups.

Or the power of just one individual of exceptional ignorance, apparently.

Still, it raises an interesting question of what properly constitutes religion for purposes of law. Back in 2005 a court ruled that for purposes of law Atheism was protected under the Establishment clause. That was an Atheist's case. This one, if it materializes, will be coming at us from the other direction.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/17/2012 7:34:30 AM >

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 7:46:55 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Parents consider lawsuit to block Yoga instruction
~AP Story
...the lesson begins with deep breathing and stretches common to many yoga classes. But there is no chanting of "om," no words spoken in the Indian language of Sanskrit nor talk of "mindfulness" or clasping hands in the prayer position.
Campbell avoids those potential pitfalls for the Encinitas Union School District, which is facing the threat of a lawsuit as it launches what is believed to be the country's most comprehensive yoga program for a public school system.
Parents opposed to the program say the classes will indoctrinate their children in Eastern religion and are not just for exercise...
Mary Eady pulled her first-grade son out of the classes.
Eady said she observed a kindergarten class in which the children did the motions referred to in yoga practices as a sun salutation. The folded over children, stood upright, sweeping up their arms toward the sky.
She said while the teacher called it an "opening sequence" the connotation was the same in her mind: Students were learning to worship the sun, which went against her Christian beliefs that only God should be worshipped.
"It will change the way you think," she said. "What they are teaching is inherently spiritual, it's just inappropriate therefore in our public schools."

The article points to the problem:
Despite the long debate over prayer in school, constitutional law experts say the courts still have not clearly defined what constitutes religion.
"You might get litigation on a program like this because it's not totally settled what the boundaries of religion are," said New York University law professor Adam Samaha.

With a parent poised to argue that yoga is "inherently spiritual," the situation gives promise of becoming interesting. We would have to confront the question of whether or not we even can disambiguate practices like yoga and meditation from religion. And if we can, whether it's a distinction without a difference for First Amendment purposes.
Thoughts? Comments?
K.



OMG!!! They were teaching these young, impressionable yout's to breath deeply?!?!? The bastards!!!!

What this mother never realized is that using a pencil is a form of polydeism since it was first used by the Romans!

Sometimes, it has to be acknowledged that you can't always stop stupid.

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 2:24:36 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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As someone raised Hindu, I do, personally feel yoga, as practiced by Hindus, is, in fact part of religious practice. It is primarily meant to be spiritual NOT physical.

BUT, with that said, what is generally practiced here in the U.S. as "yoga" is simply some physical stretching and breathing exercises (not to make too fine a point of it, but most of what passes here for yoga is not actually yoga).

So within the context of what this particular case is about, it just sounds stupid to prohibit yoga. But let's at least all agree that how yoga is practiced in the West is incredibly superficial with most people caring more about their expensive Lululemon wear and what poses they can achieve than caring about anything spiritual.

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 3:57:08 PM   
Moonhead


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Like everything else in the west, then, and anybody who claims that there's enough spiritual content to that for it to be worth banning kids over being antichristian was probably dropped on their head as a baby.

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 4:10:33 PM   
SimplyMichael


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These are the people who think there is a war on christmas, creationism is real, and obama is to the left of reagan!

We are breeding a nation of christian talibangers...

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 4:11:56 PM   
Moonhead


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No, you're encouraging a nation of Christian talibangers.
They were bred a long time ago.

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 4:13:38 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Like everything else in the west, then, and anybody who claims that there's enough spiritual content to that for it to be worth banning kids over being antichristian was probably dropped on their head as a baby.


Agreed, but again, sun salutation is Surya Namaskar : a prayer to the sun god in Hinduism. That is technically what it is. I can't help the fact that all the yoga devotees in the West seem to be able to disassociate their yoga practice from its inherent spirituality. I'm not sure who was dropped on their heads as babies. The Western yoga devotees....or the people now complaining. I am simply suggesting....both.....

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 4:16:53 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Nothing is "inherently" religious.

And Christians are so slow, they dont get to 1 until the rest of us get to 3.

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 4:45:23 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Nothing is "inherently" religious.

And Christians are so slow, they dont get to 1 until the rest of us get to 3.


I am not suggesting that "everything" is religious.

But Surya Namaskar IS. It's a fact. It literally is a prayer to the sun god.

Saying it is not inherently religious is like saying the Lord's Prayer isn't religious. Then what is it exactly??



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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 4:54:15 PM   
SimplyMichael


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If i say the lords prayer it is at best a fraud at worse a curse.

i do yoga cause the fucking women are hot

Look at christmas...pagan holiday them christian, now walmart and macys...

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 5:05:11 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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Well I disagree with your basic contention. Some things are inherently religious. One can choose to disassociate the spiritual aspects for oneself, but that does not make the thing itself "not religious" or "not spiritual".

Just because the Lord's Prayer when you say it is not religious does not make it so for others.

So people in the West can do whatever they want with their yoga as interpreted by themselves. But they can't say that yoga itself is not spiritual or religious. Their distorted view of it does not change it's inherent spirituality. And it is the height of arrogance to suggest otherwise.

For the record, I am an atheist. This is not about whether I believe or don't believe. But someone saying a prayer from the Bible, or from the Koran or from wherever is not a prayer seems silly to me. In the same way, Surya Namaskar IS a prayer. I mean it would be laughable to me if someone took out a mat and prayed to Mecca five times a day and then claimed it was not spiritual because for them personally it was just about stretching their back. Okay. Whatever. But for most people who do that it is, in fact, about their religion and spirituality.

So people can do "yoga" as exercise, but don't begin to think that because you do that you know anything about what yoga really is, and how most people who are Hindu approach yoga. Your personally disassociating the spiritual aspects of yoga has not disassociated the spiritual aspects for those who follow one of the major religions of the world. I hope you understand the distinction I am trying to make here.

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 5:09:04 PM   
SimplyMichael


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You cant see the irony in what you just wrote?

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RE: Now its Yoga - 12/17/2012 5:10:10 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
So people in the West can do whatever they want with their yoga as interpreted by themselves. But they can't say that yoga itself is not spiritual or religious. Their distorted view of it does not change it's inherent spirituality. And it is the height of arrogance to suggest otherwise.

As an atheist, who's told you that even when used purely as an exercise programme yoga has a spiritual meaning?
The only spiritual meaning it has is in context, for Hindus. Without that cultural payload behind it, no amount of wibbling and invocations (rarely practicised outside of the mystic east, in any case) will make it any more spiritual, particularly for people whose notions of spiritually are radically different to those of the culture that invented the wiggling they're indulging in.

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