RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable?

RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 12:01:56 PM)
quote: Personally, I don't need to use white lies, to keep from hurting someone's feelings. I always think someone I love or care for is beautiful. Even if they look like shit, the person they are is still beautiful to me and that is how I see them. If their ass looks huge in a dress, I'm ok with telling them that too, although it usually comes out more like, "honey, I just gotta say, that ass of yours would look way better out of that dress than in it." I do the same. The man often asks me how he looks before work. If I like what he wears, I tell him. If I dont, I suggest something else. I would never say "That looks horrible!". I get no thrill out of hurting someone. But, when I say thats what I do to other people, Im often called a liar... lol

BKSir -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 12:46:19 PM)
Lies... I don't do lies. It had better be something more like a fun little fib, something like "Who put these new ear-buds on my desk?" "Oh, it was Santa!". or 'Sniff... sniff... EWWW!' "It was the cat!" Anything more than that, it's really something that has some very serious consequences. As far as the example goes that, if I asked if something was done like I expected, and was told yes, well... as long as it was taken care of before I found out it wasn't, then, to my knowledge, it was and that's fine. Although I would rather hear "Oh shit! I forgot, I'll go do that right now." But sometimes it's fine being none the wiser. Problem being, on things like that, I usually know the answer before I even ask. Secrets... we all have them. If I were to ask, then I would expect to be told the truth, or, "It's not something I really would like to talk about." I can accept that, that's fine. I would expect to be told at some point though, but I can understand that there are things that sometimes we're just not ready to discuss at a certain time. I have a few things of my own that I don't tend to bring to light. Disobedience, annoys the shit out of me. Such as Haus's example though, that would piss me off something fierce. To me, that's a lie. And at that point, after finding out, I would have no problem pulling all of the fuses before I left the house the next time. If I allowed there to be a next time. Now, I tend to be very forgiving in most things, understanding that mistakes happen, but they better not make a habit of it.

BKSir -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 12:50:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Personally, I don't need to use white lies, to keep from hurting someone's feelings. I always think someone I love or care for is beautiful. Even if they look like shit, the person they are is still beautiful to me and that is how I see them. If their ass looks huge in a dress, I'm ok with telling them that too, although it usually comes out more like, "honey, I just gotta say, that ass of yours would look way better out of that dress than in it." I do the same. The man often asks me how he looks before work. If I like what he wears, I tell him. If I dont, I suggest something else. I would never say "That looks horrible!". I get no thrill out of hurting someone. But, when I say thats what I do to other people, Im often called a liar... lol I'm slightly more blunt than that. I'd rather have the truth be known. I mean really, "That hair style makes you look kind of old." hurts a lot less, I think, than wondering why everyone seems to be chuckling and talking about you behind your back because of it. I don't LIKE hurting other people's feelings, but, I would much rather just not waste anyone's time and just put it out there like it is. Edit to add: I expect the same from others as well. If my sweater that I really like makes me look like a fatass, I want to know. Now, whether or not I decide to wear something different, at that point, is up for debate, but I still want to know.

SailingBum -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 2:07:56 PM)
Dunno maybe I misread the post. I don't see me not telling you something about my past as a lie. It's not incumbent on me to give you the details of my life before you. What is important is how I treat you since we met. What would it matter if I were say a drug dealer and have since stopped??? I don't get what the big deal is. BadOne

SAMHAIN09 -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 2:40:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fragilepieces Sam how different would all of this be if it were a vanilla relationship? Not very.

MissImmortalPain -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 2:56:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BKSir I don't LIKE hurting other people's feelings, but, I would much rather just not waste anyone's time and just put it out there like it is. Edit to add: I expect the same from others as well. BK, I have to agree with you on this part. I don't like hurting peoples feelings over silly things either, and I expect people to tell me the truth as well. Because if I asked if my butt looked big in something(which I would never ask) I would rather have the person(male or female) tell me no my butt makes my butt look big, rather than think they are wishy washy and not brave enough to tell me the truth.

FrostedFlake -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 4:29:15 PM)
quote: BKSir Disobedience, annoys the shit out of me. Such as Haus's example though, that would piss me off something fierce. Posting to point out that the OP is not Hausboy. It is just that they are using the same Icon. My read on Hausboy is that he would really be concerned if people thought this post was his. My read on life is that Hausboy would have good cause to be concerned. So let's please notice who the OP is, and is not. I now return you to your regularly scheduled forum.

sincelo -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 4:37:35 PM)
quote: I know a lot of people are going to bring up trust and honesty and all those other nice words that folks use when it comes to "realationships" but I personally will just keep reminding myself that rarely in this "lifestyle" when talking about such things do people use the word human. We are all human. Humans are flawed, they make mistakes. The mistakes help them learn(hopefully) I believe at my core that if someone ventures into this kind of realationship looking for someone that will never tell them a fib, never let them down, never leave them wondering why they got into the realationship to begin with...then they would do best to stay out of not only this kind of realationship but every other kind as well. QFT If we can't forgive people when they screw up then we ourselves are screwed. Now if the behaviour is continuous we need to decide if it is something we can live with.

FrostedFlake -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 5:02:01 PM)
Not to jump up and down and insist on any thing or anything, but I didn't see the OP asking about "little White lies". I saw him asking about great big huge elephant in the room stuff. quote: They tell you they are working (1) when really they called in sick (2) so they could go watch the big foot ball game (3) that you forbade (4) as part of a punishment (5). That is quite a few lies for one sentence. At what point does it become habitual? I could go over the rest of the post and repeat myself repeatedly, or I could just say, "Train wreck" and leave it at that. To those who take the opposite tack I pose a question. What was in the original post?

MissImmortalPain -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 5:14:19 PM)
Go over the rest of the post FF. I don't know about anyone else but I answered that one example he gave about work. And for the record the part of that example that would bother me is the fact that said person ditched work. I mean really who tells someone they can't take a break and watch a friggin' football game(she types while noting that herself hates football)

tazzygirl -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 5:21:31 PM)
quote: I'm slightly more blunt than that. I'd rather have the truth be known. I mean really, "That hair style makes you look kind of old." hurts a lot less, I think, than wondering why everyone seems to be chuckling and talking about you behind your back because of it. Oh, I am honest... I just find ways to make the honesty not hurt so much. [;)]

tazzygirl -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 5:24:01 PM)
quote: Dunno maybe I misread the post. I don't see me not telling you something about my past as a lie. It's not incumbent on me to give you the details of my life before you. What is important is how I treat you since we met. What would it matter if I were say a drug dealer and have since stopped??? I don't get what the big deal is. It would matter if you were a serial rapist. Some habits we can change, some we cannot.

slaverachel2Him -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 5:37:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SAMHAIN09 I should say right now by forgivable I mean if you found out it just mean a punishment or severe lecture would be in the subs future and not the relationship itself ending. Okay if your submissive or slave has lied and is keeping a secret(though not one that has potential to wreck the relationship such as cheating) by lie I mean something small like they were told to do something lied and said they did it when really they forgot and then ever so stealthly completed the task before you ever had the chance to check leaving you none the wiser. Okay this should be dealt with. a slave must learn NOT to lie. There is nothing submissive about lying. IT is a control tactic. Now by secret I mean two things one something that happened years ago and is deeply personal to the sub/slave basically anything dark but not to too dark like they were convicted of rape or murder or anything like that. I basically mean like said person had kids they walked out on or had kids when they themselves were just a kid and couldn't handle it, was a former street junkie and did terrible things to support the addiction(In retrospect I can see how this is something a dominant might want to know) is in witness protection(I think this is a bit of a grey area considering the golden rule of witness protection) These are big deals. They need to be honest now. The distant past is past, but can bite you in the ass later. This should have come up before, now that it has. The Dominant needs to determine how bad this is and does it still reflect fatal flaws? A Dominant needs an honest reliable slave or sub as much as a slave or sub needs a reliable and honest Master or Dom/me. Dumping kids is a big deal and i would REALLY consider the ramifications of that in character and also the future. Child support, and serious responsibility issues etc. The second is that they originally were just using you for the ever reason or started getting involved with you and the bdsm lifestyle on a bet but over time became genuienly committed, while your relationship was starting the sub or slave was in another one that was clearly heading down hill and neither person was doing the other any favors by staying. If they started on a bet- i wouldn't hold that too much againt them as they DID become committed. i would wonder that they cheated on another as most cheaters are serial cheaters. Now for the acts of disobedience... They tell you they are working when really they called in sick so they could go watch the big foot ball game that you forbade as part of a punishment. If this is recent, then lying is clearly a way of life for them. You either have to accept you can not trust them and work on that issue with them, or realize this person is not ready to be a slave or sub Again lying is topping, regardless of the intent. If you are going to punish then part of the punishment should FIX the crimes. They should be forced to make amends and repair things with others and you. They should have training to overcome their tendency to lie their way out of messes and to stop making messes entirely. If they are a masochist (speaking as a masochist) pain is NOT going to have a lot of effect if any. Even unpleasant pain. Lectures can be tuned out, so make him/her take notes

SilverBoat -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 6:14:27 PM)
What Maria said earlier about learning to lie, yeah, there's been some studies showing that kids learn to lie about 3-5 years old, the smarter often earlier. Their sophistication about what other people can or can't tell about the truth develops rapidly during that time, especially about whether or not they can get-away-with lying. I guess there's lots more rather conjectural stuff published about (most?) people developing 'moral' empathies that evolve into social-contracts about not deceiving others for fun, profit, or worse, but obviously, some sociopaths never arrive at that stage. (Or some justify deceit as being what everybody-else-does ...) Not to highjack the thread topic, but lying that was calculated to cause harm to others is pretty much a deal-breaker, IMHO. And even if apology, restitution, etc were made for a first instance, a second or repeated habit would permanently zero out all trust factors. Fibs or with-holding that were aimed to prevent embarrassment, if repeated too much, could be deal-breakers too, but not as abruptly as hurtful intent. Some of what the OP mentioned, about prior personal, legal, moral or family issues that hadn't been dealt with, amends made if possible, and so forth, I can see how those certainly could affect an ongoing relationship, vanilla or otherwise. A lot of that could as readily be case-by-case, depending on the people involved. Should it make a difference whether the person couldn't (wasn't capable of) or wouldn't (refused to) address the wrongs they'd done to others, if there were victims? (The 'victimless' crimes against self can be of less moment, I think.) And discovering that one person is using another via deception, blackmail, etc, that'd be a dealbreaker ...

FrostedFlake -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 6:42:40 PM)
quote: MIP Go over the rest of the post FF. quote: SAMHAIN09 I should say right now by forgivable I mean if you found out it just mean a punishment or severe lecture would be in the subs future and not the relationship itself ending. Okay if your submissive or slave has lied and is keeping a secret(though not one that has potential to wreck the relationship such as cheating) by lie I mean something small like they were told to do something lied and said they did it when really they forgot (1) and then ever so stealthly completed the task before you ever had the chance to check (2) leaving you none the wiser (3) Now by secret I mean two things one something that happened years ago and is deeply personal to the sub/slave basically anything dark but not to too dark like they were convicted of rape or murder or anything like that. I basically mean like said person had kids they walked out on (4)or had kids when they themselves were just a kid and couldn't handle it, was a former street junkie and did terrible things to support the addiction(In retrospect I can see how this is something a dominant might want to know) is in witness protection(I think this is a bit of a grey area considering the golden rule of witness protection) The second is that they originally were just using you (5) for the ever reason or started getting involved with you and the bdsm lifestyle on a bet but over time became genuinely committed, while your relationship was starting the sub or slave was in another one (6) that was clearly heading down hill (7) and neither person was doing the other any favors by staying. 1/ What is wrong with admitting a slip up? How does a lie make this better? Doesn't a lie do no more than turn an honest mistake into a dishonest one? Why would this come up if someone didn't already know, so how does lying work here anyway? 2/ The sneak about behind the back impulse, how sexy! 3/ The sneak about behind the back impulse, how sexy! 4/ This is so much less important than some other things, it is only abandoning ones child. It's not like hurting someone. And of course it would never happen again, except that it is still happening and that is why it is a secret. I'm skipping the rest of this paragraph because of the word OR after the number 4. 5/ Yeah. Just the thing to give me confidence in a partner. And of course that stopped, right? When? 6/ Yeah. Just the thing to give me confidence in a partner. And of course that isn't happening again, right now, is it? And it isn't going to, is it? Why not? (7) Here the poster lies to himself. WHY was the relationship going downhill? Could it be, gosh I don't know, ...lies? I am much more impressed by the forest than by the trees. It takes a lot of trees to make a forest that large. Critiquing each would take a lot of time. Arguing about each tree with the planter would take more time. Time I could better spend playing tennis on the freeway. I am very pleased to not have a relationship with the poster, because I don't want to be chasing lies like a dog chases his tail. Suggestion. Reread the original post and summarize it into as few words as possible. Are those words, "You don't mind if I lie to you, right?" I could be way off base here, but it seems odd to me someone would suppose another would want that. Particularly from an alleged sub.

tazzygirl -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 6:54:06 PM)
quote: 4/ This is so much less important than some other things, it is only abandoning ones child. It's not like hurting someone. And of course it would never happen again, except that it is still happening and that is why it is a secret. I'm skipping the rest of this paragraph because of the word OR after the number 4. kids arent people?

FrostedFlake -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 7:12:49 PM)
Didn't the snark come across? I am so sorry, Tazzy! I will go practice in front of the mirror, right now!

slaverachel2Him -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 7:13:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverachel2Him quote: ORIGINAL: SAMHAIN09 I should say right now by forgivable I mean if you found out it just mean a punishment or severe lecture would be in the subs future and not the relationship itself ending. Okay if your submissive or slave has lied and is keeping a secret(though not one that has potential to wreck the relationship such as cheating) by lie I mean something small like they were told to do something lied and said they did it when really they forgot and then ever so stealthly completed the task before you ever had the chance to check leaving you none the wiser. Okay this should be dealt with. a slave must learn NOT to lie. There is nothing submissive about lying. IT is a control tactic. Now by secret I mean two things one something that happened years ago and is deeply personal to the sub/slave basically anything dark but not to too dark like they were convicted of rape or murder or anything like that. I basically mean like said person had kids they walked out on or had kids when they themselves were just a kid and couldn't handle it, was a former street junkie and did terrible things to support the addiction(In retrospect I can see how this is something a dominant might want to know) is in witness protection(I think this is a bit of a grey area considering the golden rule of witness protection) These are big deals. They need to be honest now. The distant past is past, but can bite you in the ass later. This should have come up before, now that it has. The Dominant needs to determine how bad this is and does it still reflect fatal flaws? A Dominant needs an honest reliable slave or sub as much as a slave or sub needs a reliable and honest Master or Dom/me. Dumping kids is a big deal and i would REALLY consider the ramifications of that in character and also the future. Child support, and serious responsibility issues etc. The second is that they originally were just using you for the ever reason or started getting involved with you and the bdsm lifestyle on a bet but over time became genuienly committed, while your relationship was starting the sub or slave was in another one that was clearly heading down hill and neither person was doing the other any favors by staying. If they started on a bet- i wouldn't hold that too much againt them as they DID become committed. i would wonder that they cheated on another as most cheaters are serial cheaters. Now for the acts of disobedience... They tell you they are working when really they called in sick so they could go watch the big foot ball game that you forbade as part of a punishment. If this is recent, then lying is clearly a way of life for them. You either have to accept you can not trust them and work on that issue with them, or realize this person is not ready to be a slave or sub Again lying is topping, regardless of the intent. If you are going to punish then part of the punishment should FIX the crimes. They should be forced to make amends and repair things with others and you. They should have training to overcome their tendency to lie their way out of messes and to stop making messes entirely. If they are a masochist (speaking as a masochist) pain is NOT going to have a lot of effect if any. Even unpleasant pain. Lectures can be tuned out, so make him/her take notes Okay this should be dealt with. a slave must learn NOT to lie. There is nothing submissive about lying. IT is a control tactic. These are big deals. They need to be honest now. The distant past is past, but can bite you in the ass later. This should have come up before, now that it has. The Dominant needs to determine how bad this is and does it still reflect fatal flaws? A Dominant needs an honest reliable slave or sub as much as a slave or sub needs a reliable and honest Master or Dom/me. Dumping kids is a big deal and i would REALLY consider the ramifications of that in character and also the future. Child support, and serious responsibility issues etc If they started on a bet- i wouldn't hold that too much againt them as they DID become committed. i would wonder that they cheated on another as most cheaters are serial cheaters If this is recent, then lying is clearly a way of life for them. You either have to accept you can not trust them and work on that issue with them, or realize this person is not ready to be a slave or sub Again lying is topping, regardless of the intent. If you are going to punish then part of the punishment should FIX the crimes. They should be forced to make amends and repair things with others and you. They should have training to overcome their tendency to lie their way out of messes and to stop making messes entirely. If they are a masochist (speaking as a masochist) pain is NOT going to have a lot of effect if any. Even unpleasant pain. Lectures can be tuned out, so make him/her take notes

tazzygirl -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 7:13:43 PM)
Politics is quiet tonight. I switch my snark meter off when Im not there... I gotta stop that! quote: I am so sorry, Tazzy! I will go practice in front of the mirror, right now! Do you also need a writing assignment?

FrostedFlake -> RE: Are some secrets, lies, and acts of disobedience forgivable? (1/2/2012 7:35:16 PM)
quote: Tazzygirl Do you also need a writing assignment? Uh-oh!! (Tries to sneak off without seeming to)

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