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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 8:44:35 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Insurance companies intentionally lower their own risk, while increasing the risks of those who "invest", in order for the company to make huge profits.

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 8:52:12 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Insurance is more a form of legalized gambling which has nothing to do with Communism.


Actually it is the direct opposite of gambling. Gambling is intentionally increasing your risk in order to gain a profit. Insurance is protection against an already existing risk to compensate for a loss.

A loss that I am gambling will happen. If I don't anticipate the loss (and associtated payout) I don't put money in the slot machine (or insurance bill)


Sorry, youve still got it backwards. NOT insuring against an existing risk is gambling that you will not incur that loss. Insuring against a risk is hedging. They are not the same thing. Gambling always involves increasing your net amount at risk, hedging reduces your net amount at risk. If you buy insurance on something that you have no existing exposure to, then you are gambling.

Perhaps an analogy will make the difference clearer. When you look both ways before you cross the street are you gambling that you'll be hit by a car? No. You are investing that extra bit of time to hedge against the possibility of being hit by a car. It is risk management, not risk increase. (In the case of P&C insurance this kind of "risk management" to avoid a loss lowers your premium by reducing the probability of loss, which also lowers your net amount at risk).

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 11/29/2011 9:22:48 AM >

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 8:53:17 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Insurance companies are required by law to make profits. They are also required to keep enough extra on hand to be able to pay claims when disasters hit. There is nothing wrong with companies that make a profit.

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 8:56:45 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Insurance companies are required by law to make profits. .


Huh?

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 9:07:52 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Questions good political folks...

Does the Insurance Industry Machine exist as a form of Communism?

What are your factors in agreeing or disagreeing?

Disagree.

Some differences:
- Communism is an ideology. The system of insurance companies is a system of companies. Different categories of things: systems of thoughts vs. systems of companies (which are itself a complex system which, yes, contains thoughts, but are not systems of thoughts).
- Communism is Marxist, defending dialectic materialism and a certain development of the societies (from feudal, to the society without classes). The SIC does not run dialectically in any sense, nor does it make prognosis about society like the Marxist ones.
- Communism defends the state ownership of the means of production. The SIC is composed on private ownership of companies.

These are radical differences affecting the very essence of both systems. Therefore, they are definitely not similar, nor is one a form of the other.

Best regard :)


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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 9:37:50 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		They are required to have a certain amount on the books to cover any claims.

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 9:45:03 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

They are required to have a certain amount on the books to cover any claims.


That isnt the same as requiring that they have profits. Its one of the mistakes that people make in discussing the "huge increase in profits" of health insurers the last few years. They have added to their loss reserves because Obamacare has increased the cost of coverage. Loss reserves arent profits, they are amounts expected to be paid out in claims either incurred but not reported or not yet incurred.

They cant shut down operations today and pocket those "profits". They have a contractual obligation to pay the losses that those reserves cover.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 11/29/2011 9:46:27 AM >

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 9:55:37 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Insurance companies are required by law to make profits.

No. They are not.


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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 10:01:33 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		They have to make a profit to have the money to pay claims.

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 10:02:55 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

They have to make a profit to have the money to pay claims.

No. If they properly underwrite their policies then they could cover all obligations and make not a penny. Cash on hand does not equal a profit.

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 10:58:07 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

They have to make a profit to have the money to pay claims.

No. If they properly underwrite their policies then they could cover all obligations and make not a penny. Cash on hand does not equal a profit.


He is still confusing loss reserves with profits, probably intentionally at this point.

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 11:08:19 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		They are not required to make a profit. They are only required to have sufficient liquid reserves. Hell, you could probably even have a non-profit or not for profit corporation working as an insurance company.

I didn't look up to see if any actually already exist.

Wilbur? Are there any existing Insurance companies that are non- or not-for-profit?

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 11:16:00 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Does the Insurance Industry Machine exist as a form of Communism?


Please explain your understanding of Communism. Unless we're on the same page, there's no point in this discussion.

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 11:16:22 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

They are not required to make a profit. They are only required to have sufficient liquid reserves. Hell, you could probably even have a non-profit or not for profit corporation working as an insurance company.

I didn't look up to see if any actually already exist.

Wilbur? Are there any existing Insurance companies that are non- or not-for-profit?


Mutual insurance companies are sort of non-profit, since unneeded reserves are returned to policyholders in the form of premium reductions. There are also captive insurance companies that are organized under insurance law but serve only to self-insure the parent company and dont generate profits. They are formed so they dont have to pay for an insurer's profits, to give them access to reinsurance at wholesale rates, and for tax benefits.

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 11:17:51 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

They are not required to make a profit. They are only required to have sufficient liquid reserves. Hell, you could probably even have a non-profit or not for profit corporation working as an insurance company.

I didn't look up to see if any actually already exist.

Wilbur? Are there any existing Insurance companies that are non- or not-for-profit?


Mutual insurance companies are sort of non-profit, since unneeded reserves are returned to policyholders in the form of premium reductions. There are also captive insurance companies that are organized under insurance law but serve only to self-insure the parent company and dont generate profits. They are formed so they dont have to pay for an insurer's profits, to give them access to reinsurance at wholesale rates, and for tax benefits.

ty I figured you'd be the one to ask.

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 11:19:08 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
quote:

Does the Insurance Industry Machine exist as a form of Communism?

Please explain your understanding of Communism. Unless we're on the same page, there's no point in this discussion.
That may be interesting also for me. I happen to know a bit about communism, I was Marxist a long time ago, and I can't find any significant similarity.

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 11:21:22 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Property_Insurance_Corporation

Citizens Property Insurance Corporation was created in Florida in 2002 to provide property insurance for home-owners who could not obtain insurance elsewhere, an insurer of last resort. It is a government established, not-for-profit insurer in Florida. It is the largest insurer in the state.


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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 11:26:45 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Property_Insurance_Corporation

Citizens Property Insurance Corporation was created in Florida in 2002 to provide property insurance for home-owners who could not obtain insurance elsewhere, an insurer of last resort. It is a government established, not-for-profit insurer in Florida. It is the largest insurer in the state.




There are a lot of government insurance pools that are non-profit, eg high risk auto insurance pools and your example. I didnt include them because by virtue of being governmental they are by definition non-profit. Also if servant were actually correct that commercial insurers were required to make profits a government pool would be exempt from that requirement anyway.

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 11:32:09 AM   
Termyn8or


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There have been some policyholder owned insurance companies, but I don't think any are around anymore. I think the problem was they couldn't maintain sufficient capitalisation.

Watch those good hands folks. Some policies, i.e. an FRB in Ohio to be insured driving any non commercial venicle, is not the same. In this state at least, thay could try to recoup the loss from you, but that will be in the pollicy. They can't file with the state to prevent you from having a license, but they can wreck your credit.

What's more these minimum coverage policies are a joke. If you have any kind of property with equity you should have probably a million dollar limit. Ohio requires around $40,000 just to get on the road, which ain't shit. That won't cover some cars, and don't even think about medical. What's more by getting the policy you give the insurance co. litigation rights, which means they can settle for a million, pay the forty grand and leave you holding the bag for the rest. It doesn't happen all the time, but it has and can.

Whether the government requires it or not, there is a good reason big companies have big policies.

Debtor's prison is coming back into vogue, as it does I think insurance companies might see some profit.

However IMO it is gambling. Betting against loss is the same thing as betting for gain if you look at the big picture, and I think there is a communistic element to it, that it (ideally) spreads the risk around. That's in a perfect system though, now it's dog eat dog, and insurance companies intend to get rich. They better, with having to pay all those greedy people out there.

T^T

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RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Com... - 11/29/2011 12:58:28 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

They are not required to make a profit. They are only required to have sufficient liquid reserves. Hell, you could probably even have a non-profit or not for profit corporation working as an insurance company.

I didn't look up to see if any actually already exist.

Wilbur? Are there any existing Insurance companies that are non- or not-for-profit?

There used to be non profit health insurance companies. Not sure if any remain.

Prior to 1994(?) all blue cross blue shield member corporations were not for profit.

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