Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (Full Version)

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pyroaquatic -> Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 2:08:18 AM)

Questions good political folks...

Does the Insurance Industry Machine exist as a form of Communism?

What are your factors in agreeing or disagreeing?




DarkSteven -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 2:47:17 AM)

Huh?

Communists reallocate wealth on a compulsory basis.  Insurance companies do it on a voluntary basis.  Although the "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" sounds like premiums and payouts to a degree.

A huge difference is that communism reallocates because that's its reason for existence.  Insurance companies, being capitalists, fight claims to try to maximize profits.

Another difference is the time factor.  Communists reallocate NOW.  Insurance companies take in premiums now and pay out later.  Due to the time difference, they have a major focus on investment of the money they've taken in.




tazzygirl -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 4:16:01 AM)

DS

quote:

Although the "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" sounds like premiums and payouts to a degree.


I would agree if they didnt go into blanket denials and seek deeply for loopholes to get out of paying those premiums.





Moonhead -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 4:35:21 AM)

There's also the fact that insurance companies' very existence is dependent on the existence of a money based capitalist economy. I don't think I've ever met a commie who thinks that's a good thing, so it'd disqualify insurers, even if they weren't more concerned with avoiding paying out than actually redistributing wealth to those who need it and have paid a premium to be entitled to it.

I'd be more inclined to see insurance as a gamble than anything communistic. Ambrose Bierce was on the money with that one:
quote:


n. An ingenious modern game of chance in which the player is permitted to enjoy the comfortable conviction that he is beating the man who keeps the table.
INSURANCE AGENT: My dear sir, that is a fine house — pray let me
insure it.
HOUSE OWNER: With pleasure. Please make the annual premium so
low that by the time when, according to the tables of your
actuary, it will probably be destroyed by fire I will have
paid you considerably less than the face of the policy.
INSURANCE AGENT: O dear, no — we could not afford to do that.
We must fix the premium so that you will have paid more.
HOUSE OWNER: How, then, can I afford that?
INSURANCE AGENT: Why, your house may burn down at any time.
There was Smith’s house, for example, which —
HOUSE OWNER: Spare me — there were Brown’s house, on the
contrary, and Jones’s house, and Robinson’s house, which —
INSURANCE AGENT: Spare me!
HOUSE OWNER: Let us understand each other. You want me to pay
you money on the supposition that something will occur
previously to the time set by yourself for its occurrence. In
other words, you expect me to bet that my house will not last
so long as you say that it will probably last.
INSURANCE AGENT: But if your house burns without insurance it
will be a total loss.
HOUSE OWNER: Beg your pardon — by your own actuary’s tables I
shall probably have saved, when it burns, all the premiums I
would otherwise have paid to you — amounting to more than the
face of the policy they would have bought. But suppose it to
burn, uninsured, before the time upon which your figures are
based. If I could not afford that, how could you if it were
insured?
INSURANCE AGENT: O, we should make ourselves whole from our
luckier ventures with other clients. Virtually, they pay your
loss.
HOUSE OWNER: And virtually, then, don’t I help to pay their
losses? Are not their houses as likely as mine to burn before
they have paid you as much as you must pay them? The case
stands this way: you expect to take more money from your
clients than you pay to them, do you not?
INSURANCE AGENT: Certainly; if we did not —
HOUSE OWNER: I would not trust you with my money. Very well
then. If it is certain, with reference to the whole body of
your clients, that they lose money on you it is probable,
with reference to any one of them, that he will. It is
these individual probabilities that make the aggregate
certainty.
INSURANCE AGENT: I will not deny it — but look at the figures in
this pamph —
HOUSE OWNER: Heaven forbid!
INSURANCE AGENT: You spoke of saving the premiums which you would
otherwise pay to me. Will you not be more likely to squander
them? We offer you an incentive to thrift.
HOUSE OWNER: The willingness of A to take care of B’s money is
not peculiar to insurance, but as a charitable institution you
command esteem. Deign to accept its expression from a
Deserving Object.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 5:10:02 AM)

Insurance is more a form of legalized gambling which has nothing to do with Communism.




Moonhead -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 5:26:46 AM)

I just said that. (Or quoted Ambrose Bierce saying that, anyway...)




Hillwilliam -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 6:17:02 AM)

Just replying to the OP, moon.




pyroaquatic -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 6:57:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Insurance is more a form of legalized gambling which has nothing to do with Communism.


This may be a strange position but I see life as a gigantic gamble. Those insured are under consistent scrutiny due to the chances of simply living, job situation, hobbies.

Smoking, Having a Fast Car, Using Industrial Grade Chemicals, Dealing with Wild Animals, Natural Disasters, Economic Disasters, and all those other silly roulette happenings.

In the realistic spin of things... if you pay someone to take care of you later financially in times of dire need as a hedge bet against misfortune what is the difference between the Insurance Machines and Communistic Regimes?

And in addition,

I am not for or against communism. Simply survival.




servantforuse -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 7:02:39 AM)

The OP might be on to something if Obama care ever goes fully into effect (something I doubt will ever happen) The govt will force everyone to buy it and will confiscate your money if you refuse.




Moonhead -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 7:06:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Insurance is more a form of legalized gambling which has nothing to do with Communism.


This may be a strange position but I see life as a gigantic gamble. Those insured are under consistent scrutiny due to the chances of simply living, job situation, hobbies.

Smoking, Having a Fast Car, Using Industrial Grade Chemicals, Dealing with Wild Animals, Natural Disasters, Economic Disasters, and all those other silly roulette happenings.

In the realistic spin of things... if you pay someone to take care of you later financially in times of dire need as a hedge bet against misfortune what is the difference between the Insurance Machines and Communistic Regimes?

And in addition,

I am not for or against communism. Simply survival.

You miss a fairly basic point, though: you need to have a certain level of affluence to buy insurance in the first place, and that's a long way from anything that could be described as communism, isn't it?




Lucylastic -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 7:13:49 AM)

Laughing at the communism bull
No insurance is FAR from being communistic, however that isnt to say that it started out to be a good thing.
It was soon taken over by greed and assholes from both sides of the equation until we have what we have today.





tazzygirl -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 8:03:12 AM)

Sort of like the health care system itself.




pyroaquatic -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 8:05:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Laughing at the communism bull
No insurance is FAR from being communistic, however that isnt to say that it started out to be a good thing.
It was soon taken over by greed and assholes from both sides of the equation until we have what we have today.




May I please ask why you laugh?

It was a weird train of thought and figured I would explore the differences and weird participatory communism that is required by law in some states already in forms of Car Insurance.

There is also that itty bitty governmental assistance in multiple forms. Understandably according to our legal jargon it is not Communism.

So as an American Citizen I must peruse my brain... and question that which is around me. As an inquisitive human being even. It would be a damn shame to have that ability removed from me by an increase of a weird barrier-to-entry cost.

I'm looking at periods of time in history... innovations vs. safety... populous vs. poverty and thinking how far we have gone in strange terms these days. The landscape of American Everything seems to be pasted over in terms of Unity.

Without Unity in a simple Community of free agents we are prone to hang each other while stuffing material far into our pockets.

as to my background...
I interview people professionally. There are many things I pick up on. Even better is when I can record all of those freaking statistics you folks tout over each other.




Lucylastic -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 8:15:05 AM)

ya but im not a US citizen, so I have a different set of experiences to you:)
calling insurance, communism made me laugh, however:) we (uk and canada) have a health insurance system, that comes out of your wages as taxes, everyone pays, everyone benefits .which yes, of course could be classed as communism (or socialism, but people often dont get the difference) has some elements in it, but only as far as health insurance goes.
nothing against you, seriously!




pyroaquatic -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 8:27:40 AM)

Ah.

I've seriously considered migrating outside the U.S. but who is going to want to take in silly Americans these days? :P




Lucylastic -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 8:29:48 AM)

Its not the silly ones we dont like :)
[:D][:D][:D][:D]




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 8:31:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Questions good political folks...

Does the Insurance Industry Machine exist as a form of Communism?

What are your factors in agreeing or disagreeing?



Uhhhhh, since insurance companies are privately owned how the fuck could they be a form of communism? SPOTY.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 8:34:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Insurance is more a form of legalized gambling which has nothing to do with Communism.


Actually it is the direct opposite of gambling. Gambling is intentionally increasing your risk in order to gain a profit. Insurance is protection against an already existing risk to compensate for a loss.




pyroaquatic -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 8:40:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Questions good political folks...

Does the Insurance Industry Machine exist as a form of Communism?

What are your factors in agreeing or disagreeing?



Uhhhhh, since insurance companies are privately owned how the fuck could they be a form of communism? SPOTY.


quote:

figured I would explore the differences and weird participatory communism


these words combine with each other and make new forms....
man.

liek, machines are cool...

but zombie machines are a different from of a political machine.... somehow. Industrial machines. This is a question of semantics perhaps. See Forms of Communism for more information, friend.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Seriously? Is the Insurance Industry a Bunch of Commies!?! (11/29/2011 8:43:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Insurance is more a form of legalized gambling which has nothing to do with Communism.


Actually it is the direct opposite of gambling. Gambling is intentionally increasing your risk in order to gain a profit. Insurance is protection against an already existing risk to compensate for a loss.

A loss that I am gambling will happen. If I don't anticipate the loss (and associtated payout) I don't put money in the slot machine (or insurance bill)




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