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Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30... - 7/28/2011 8:31:49 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State PrisonsThis privatization trend has got to stop.  Are the nukes private yet?  Lets ask GE.

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 8:37:27 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		There's a big difference between nukes and prison hunky. If a private firm can do the job as well and do it more cheaply, i say have at it.

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 8:41:19 AM   
Icarys


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Status: offline 		Hell, I've got some laws I'd like to see changed. I wonder how much $20,000 would get me in the political world?

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 8:42:07 AM   
imperatrixx


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Status: offline 		When I was a kid, I learned about private prisons in the US in the earlier part of the 20th century. They did do the job cheaper. They were filthy, diseased places where people starved and where their labor was hired out to work in mines.

IMO these prisons should not be private or run for a profit. If the US is having trouble housing all of its prisoners, maybe it should look at decriminalizing some victimless crimes, instead of selling out the care of human beings for the lowest bid.

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 8:43:20 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		And CA's cost per prisoner is 3x Florida's. Whats your problem with privatization of prisons hunk? Try reasons, not rhetoric.

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 9:01:00 AM   
FirstQuaker


Posts: 787
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		What stops Bernie Madoff or one of his criminal buddies from buying the prison he is sent to?

How does that work?

If I was running a drug cartel, I would be buying the prisons up left and right. Especially in Florida.

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 9:04:20 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

When I was a kid, I learned about private prisons in the US in the earlier part of the 20th century. They did do the job cheaper. They were filthy, diseased places where people starved and where their labor was hired out to work in mines.

IMO these prisons should not be private or run for a profit. If the US is having trouble housing all of its prisoners, maybe it should look at decriminalizing some victimless crimes, instead of selling out the care of human beings for the lowest bid.

That was 100 years ago. We've come a long way but you bring up some points.

Should prisoners work if they are physically able? HELL YES. Credit them a couple of dollars a day to be given upon release. That way, they will have a "grubstake" and won't have to steal to eat their first free meal.

They should be clean (cleaned by the prisoners) and minimal standards adhered to. they SHOULD be fucking uncomfortable. It's PRISON ffs. It should be uncomfortable enough till they don't want to come back.

I DO, by the way, agree with decriminalizing certain things. It sucks that you can literally do more time in Federal prison for a big bag of weed (say a quarter pound) than for driving drunk and killing someone.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 7/28/2011 9:05:13 AM >

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 9:14:48 AM   
imperatrixx


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Status: offline 		Prisoners should be given the opportunity to work. They should not be forced into hard/manual labor. I realize the US Constitution makes provisions for prisoners to be forced into labor. I wholeheartedly disagree with that.

Prisons should be clean, safe, provide adequate nutrition and healthcare. They should not be deliberately uncomfortable IMO. There is no need to make them particularly comfortable, but there is a difference between not making something comfortable, and deliberately making something uncomfortable.

Oh and about times having changed?

Nationally, a 2001 Bureau of Justice Assistance report found private prisons had 50 percent more inmate-on-inmate assaults than public prisons. Nearly the same ratio held for inmate-on-staff assaults.
In Idaho, an AP records check found violence at the private prison three times more prevalent than at the eight facilities still under state management.
Three years later, a Federal Probation Journal study found private prisons had more than twice as many inmate-on-inmate assaults than in public prisons.
http://www.inthepublicinterest.org/article/prison-contractor-and-idaho-share-bitter-profit

A business running a prison for profit has absolutely no interest in the welfare of its inmates...it will do the bare minimum to keep the contracts. I mean come on, we're talking about a culture that ships jobs overseas to developing countries in order to increase profits. If current American culture doesn't give a fuck about normal, average American workers, how can you expect it to give a fuck about the safety of convicted criminals?

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 9:27:29 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

And CA's cost per prisoner is 3x Florida's. Whats your problem with privatization of prisons hunk? Try reasons, not rhetoric.


Because MY TAX MONEY went to build the public infrastructure.   I would not give away my yard- just because I want cheaper grass cut- when I paid for my house. 

Prisons were built with YOUR TAX MONEY.   No for profit corporation is going to take it for the public good.

Too much of our public commons is placed into private hands. 

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 10:02:34 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

And CA's cost per prisoner is 3x Florida's. Whats your problem with privatization of prisons hunk? Try reasons, not rhetoric.


Because MY TAX MONEY went to build the public infrastructure.   I would not give away my yard- just because I want cheaper grass cut- when I paid for my house. 

Prisons were built with YOUR TAX MONEY.   No for profit corporation is going to take it for the public good.

Too much of our public commons is placed into private hands. 


Let the company buy or lease the building.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 10:21:18 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Hill-  some things in public good should be non-profit. 

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 10:39:03 AM   
Anarrus


Posts: 475
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		~FR~
This:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/28/980052/-Justice-for-SalePrisons-for-Profit

and this
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/28/134855801/private-prison-promises-leave-texas-towns-in-trouble.

I agree with PA.

For-profit prisons are a dangerous and slippery slope in the criminal justice system.

After all wouldn't those who's interests were in profiting from other's incarceration also have a behind the scene's interest in more being incarcerated and for longer periods, as well as interest in what offenses were punishable by incarceration?

We already have the military-industrial complex and the as-of-late terrorist-industrial complex. Do we really need to have the justice-industrial complex as well?

< Message edited by Anarrus -- 7/28/2011 10:40:36 AM >

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 10:40:07 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

What stops Bernie Madoff or one of his criminal buddies from buying the prison he is sent to?

How does that work?

If I was running a drug cartel, I would be buying the prisons up left and right. Especially in Florida.



Who cares if they did? There would still be a contractual obligation on how prisoners, including anyone associated with an owner, are treated.

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and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 10:44:16 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		HAHAHAH regulations?? in private business? how dare there be ANY regulations!
Let people like Locked and Wilbur own prisons.. there to me is a damn fine reason to leave the city and state,
watch the death and violence rates, and reports of inhuman conditions within six months.
If they are allowed contact with the outside world

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 10:48:11 AM   
Anarrus


Posts: 475
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

HAHAHAH regulations?? in private business? how dare there be ANY regulations!
Let people like Locked and Wilbur own prisons.. there to me is a damn fine reason to leave the city and state,
watch the death and violence rates, and reports of inhuman conditions within six months.
If they are allowed contact with the outside world



Also watch people being sentenced 5-10 for a burned out taillight if there's $$ to be made

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"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."...Goethe
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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 10:55:55 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		That sort of thing has already happened.

Colorado, Texas, Pennsylvania and others have been rocked by scandals in the for profit business of prisons.

Couple of Penn Judges were indicted for taking kickbacks from the for profit to send kids to lockup, by example, CO were sexual scandals in the womans prison for profit...lots more.......

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:03:04 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

When I was a kid, I learned about private prisons in the US in the earlier part of the 20th century. They did do the job cheaper. They were filthy, diseased places where people starved and where their labor was hired out to work in mines.

IMO these prisons should not be private or run for a profit. If the US is having trouble housing all of its prisoners, maybe it should look at decriminalizing some victimless crimes, instead of selling out the care of human beings for the lowest bid.


I would like to see both. I don't think the two things are mutually exclusive and we can certainly install some form of proper oversight. I don't think we should allow disease to run rampant because that's just bad for everyone nor do I believe we should be starving people whose behavior has led to their incarceration since we are not going to allow them out to earn their own meals, but I'm am all for putting criminals to work at hard labor. Idle hands and all that.

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:04:03 AM   
WebWanderer


Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Because MY TAX MONEY went to build the public infrastructure.   I would not give away my yard- just because I want cheaper grass cut- when I paid for my house. 

Prisons were built with YOUR TAX MONEY.   No for profit corporation is going to take it for the public good.

Too much of our public commons is placed into private hands. 


quote:

YOUR TAX MONEY

Option 1. You are just posturing and trying to raise some noise, and don't really care about the issue.
Option 2. You fail to understand that the private sector can do almost anything cheaper than the government. Ergo, privatizing our prisons will save YOUR TAX MONEY (sic) and reduce waste.

Which is it?

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:06:29 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline 		Option 3 - he is Mel Gibson in that conspiracy theory movie. He actually stumbled upon something genuinely wrong, even if he can't explain how or why.

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:06:49 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		2.  This is wholly specious, and unfounded.

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