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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:08:34 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anarrus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

HAHAHAH regulations?? in private business? how dare there be ANY regulations!
Let people like Locked and Wilbur own prisons.. there to me is a damn fine reason to leave the city and state,
watch the death and violence rates, and reports of inhuman conditions within six months.
If they are allowed contact with the outside world



Also watch people being sentenced 5-10 for a burned out taillight if there's $$ to be made

heh

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(in reply to Anarrus)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:10:04 AM   
WebWanderer


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Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

2.  This is wholly specious, and unfounded.

Why? Do you really believe that government never wastes any money and operates in the most rational and efficient manner? LOL... (Disclaimer: I'm not a rabid Tea Bagger or anything - merely a realist.)

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:21:11 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WebWanderer

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Because MY TAX MONEY went to build the public infrastructure.   I would not give away my yard- just because I want cheaper grass cut- when I paid for my house. 

Prisons were built with YOUR TAX MONEY.   No for profit corporation is going to take it for the public good.

Too much of our public commons is placed into private hands. 


quote:

YOUR TAX MONEY

Option 1. You are just posturing and trying to raise some noise, and don't really care about the issue.
Option 2. You fail to understand that the private sector can do almost anything cheaper than the government. Ergo, privatizing our prisons will save YOUR TAX MONEY (sic) and reduce waste.

Which is it?


I am going to privatize the road in front of your house and make it into a toll way.

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:21:38 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		No, nor do I believe that corporations do, either.  But why do you people couch things in such aversarial and impudent terms?

ARE YOU SAYING that you are a convict and you will get a better deal from a for profit corporation? 

Same as what you did.  The correct opinion that there is absolutely no proof of this and that it is an old wives tale, is easily refutable with fact, and if you have those, then do it, do not elide the conversation with impugnations. 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/28/2011 11:22:25 AM >

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RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:23:33 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline 		To me, there is a crucial difference.

The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population.

Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:27:31 AM   
WebWanderer


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From: Fort Worth, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
I am going to privatize the road in front of your house and make it into a toll way.


False analogy. Your analogy would work if - and only if - the government had already charged me for using the road, and the corporation could do the same task, but with less waste. Try again.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:28:03 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

There's a big difference between nukes and prison hunky. If a private firm can do the job as well and do it more cheaply, i say have at it.


Then we should privatize everything.

Including Social Security.

Wait, never mind, I think someone had this idea already.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:28:16 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WebWanderer

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
I am going to privatize the road in front of your house and make it into a toll way.


False analogy. Your analogy would work if - and only if - the government had already charged me for using the road, and the corporation could do the same task, but with less waste. Try again.


WRONG

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:30:25 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Uh, can't go that far.

The prisons are more or less at the whim of those in power for capacities.  You get these get tough law and order cockbreaths that want to slam everybody with a joint for 20 years, and the slobberers are going 'Noiners!!!!'

A for profit company has a vested interest in expanding and making more than they did last year, and will lobby the fuck outta congresses and government officials to make more severe penalties, all the while cutting costs and grabbing bonus and engaging in nefariousness.

And if the population decreases, then they have to skin the cat somewhere to boost profits, and it aint like any oversight happens to insure they are dogooders, it is out of sight, out of mind until the fit hits the shan somewheres. 

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:30:56 AM   
WebWanderer


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Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

WRONG


I shall waste no more of my time since it is clear that your debate skills are far superior to mine. Good day, sir.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:38:35 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WebWanderer

Why? Do you really believe that government never wastes any money and operates in the most rational and efficient manner? LOL... (Disclaimer: I'm not a rabid Tea Bagger or anything - merely a realist.)


Nice face.

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:55:00 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

To me, there is a crucial difference.

The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population.

Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is.

Or increasing the prison population, particularly if that's providing them with an even cheaper labour pool than China...

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 11:56:51 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

To me, there is a crucial difference.

The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population.

Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is.

You would be amazed how many judges have a vested interest in 'counseling services". They sentence someone to probation with the understanding they attend said 'counseling'. Late 1 minute, you are in violation of probation. Warrant issued and you start over with the judge pocketing the $.

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(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 12:30:33 PM   
TheGorenSociety


Posts: 116
Joined: 2/13/2005
Status: offline 		It is and always has been about money and power.Those in power want to keep and want more. Those with out it, want to take down those who have it. The State already has pretty much cleared out any money left in the States prison coffers years ago. The PBA union have taken pretty much anything else left in the system.

The system is broken and is nothing more then a money ponzi scheme to reape, I mean rape as much money out of relatives of inmates as possible with out being charged with extortion.

Having dealt with the States prison system both as a vendor and visitor to the State's prison's, the only thing this will do is make a bad situation worse.Neither of the two private prison vendors deserves the contract.Nor does the State to be honest. All of them need to be taken out to the wood shed and whipped with out mercy.

Currently the real population growth is in the county detention system, since if you incarcerate anyone for less then one year they stay in the county of residence. The best solution is to give the State prisons to the counties in question and have those sheriff's take over the prison's and be paid for state prisoners like they have been..

When you are incarcerated on any State charge you are automatically a charge of the State, even while waiting for trial. As such the State pays a daily fee to the county sheriff for each inmate.

By removing the primary duty of the Department of corrections and placing them into a purely supervisory role, they could devote resources back to inspection, training and  improving over inmate well being. By forcing the State to use the county sheriff system already in place, it would also force the entire prison guard system back to the sheriff's requirements. Take away the profit motive for both the State, county and private prison management and you remove most of the problem in running the system.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 12:42:14 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

To me, there is a crucial difference.

The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population.

Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is.



The government is never concerned with cost savings and "reducing the prison population". They (at least in CA) are so in the pocket of the public service unions that get them elected that they are interested in padding their salaries and benefits to asinine levels.

Private companies have no control over who does or doesnt enter the prison population. Totally bogus argument.

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(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 12:42:39 PM   
philosophy


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Joined: 2/15/2004
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FR


Working for profit is an important part of any reasonable society. Those who work hard, who innovate, or are even just lucky make cash and whats wrong with that?

Having said that, the legal system is something that should have absolutely nothing to do with profit.

The legal system should concern itself with just one thing.....guilt or innocence. Once it becomes profitable to favour one over the other then the potential for abuse skyrockets.

And, sadly, as we have learned......once the potential for abuse is allowed to continue then someone, somewhere will abuse it.

(in reply to TheGorenSociety)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 12:43:21 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		In PA   3 years is state- less then that is county. 

(in reply to TheGorenSociety)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 12:43:21 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

To me, there is a crucial difference.

The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population.

Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is.

You would be amazed how many judges have a vested interest in 'counseling services". They sentence someone to probation with the understanding they attend said 'counseling'. Late 1 minute, you are in violation of probation. Warrant issued and you start over with the judge pocketing the $.


ORLY. Go ahead, amaze me...with facts.

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 12:45:21 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		As you have never amazed us.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatize... - 7/28/2011 1:20:45 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

To me, there is a crucial difference.

The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population.

Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is.

You would be amazed how many judges have a vested interest in 'counseling services". They sentence someone to probation with the understanding they attend said 'counseling'. Late 1 minute, you are in violation of probation. Warrant issued and you start over with the judge pocketing the $.


ORLY. Go ahead, amaze me...with facts.

"Crossroads" is a privately owned rehab/counseling center that operates locally. http://www.manta.com/c/mmnpp96/crossroads-area-alcohol-drug-rehabilitation-association . It is owned by the wife of the local judge and does over $500,000 in business annually.

Theres your facts. amazed yet?

There was also a case in PA recently where a juvenile judge was removed from the bench for referring kids to a 'boot camp' that he recieved referral fees (kickbacks) for either very minor offenses or charges that were later shown to be total bullshit.
Oh lookie. More facts.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/mark-ciavarella-pa-juvenile-court-judge-convicted-alleged/story?id=12965182&page=3

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 7/28/2011 1:22:27 PM >

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 40
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