quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i think it's normal to want support from your partner when you're making big changes. i think it's normal for partners to give each other advice, or helpful pushes.
i don't think it's healthy to expect someone else to come in and clean everything up, though. meaningful change has to come from yourself at some point, otherwise you'll go back to the same behaviors and expect someone else down the line to clean that up, too.

quote:

I wish I had been as wise as at you and Lilly's ages.. *sigh*

quote:

ORIGINAL: ImpishSub89

Do you think it is safe and fair for a dom/me to come into that subs life and fix it or do you think that that is unhealthy?  Do you think is unhealthy for the sub to want someone else to fix things or at least help or lead the way?

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
That said, she has subsequently found a much more controlling type and appears to be flourishing, so I'm guessing that there are some D types out there who'd love to take on some chaos and sort it out - And it could very well be that that's a very sane, healthy and positive arrangement.

That post is one of my favorites in this thread.

Okay, ImpishSub89, here are my .  Not everyone is strong at every time of their lives.  Sometimes life is chaos, and sometimes our growth is stunted, like a plant in a windowsill that only gets sun on one side.  We need help getting turned around so that balanced growth is possible.   

"Lets say there is a submissive, who's life it rather chaotic.  Do you think it is safe and fair for a dom/me to come into that subs life and fix it or do you think that that is unhealthy?"
Many issues in this one.  Some people do well in chaos, others do not...do they even need or want help?  I have responded to need, and sometimes to want.  My mother is one of these people in chaos.  She could not handle old issues on her own so I stepped in.  It has taken years of careful tending and we tease each other that I always wanted to have a daughter and now I've got one.   It works for us.  She is very calm now and not prone to deep depression or high anxiety.  People are capable of helping other people sometimes, not everything requires a shrink. 

I am capable of handling a lot of cr*p storms.  I also know that I am not unique in this.   

Do I think it is safe?  This is a judgment call, and I can only speak from my own experience...and another question comes to mind.  Safe for whom?  When I decide to intervene and help, with some it has been for even a year, with another it took eight years.  The goal is to handle crises and to make gradual changes so that their life is better over time.  "Teach a man to fish" instead of taking on a permanent dependent. 

I try not to bite off more than I can chew, and although this last time wasn't safe for me emotionally or physically...it was MY decision.  For those who don't know me, my friend and neighbor was dying from lymphoma and it took her a year to pass on.  I was her main caregiver (unpaid, btw, this was because she needed me), her medical power of attourney and then legal power of attourney.  It has taken me more than two years to work myself through the aftermath, so no, it wasn't very safe for ME, but then I figured that her needs were more important at that time and behaved accordingly.  Caring about people is never quite...safe. 

Two of my friends are both schizophrenic and high functioning retarded, and yes, I spent years helping them in many ways.  Both are better off and I take satisfaction in that.  Also we managed to stay friends in spite of one of them needing floorspace in my back room for eight years.  He had been homeless, disabled, and had some bad habits that needed some tough love.

Has it been safe for vanillasubmissives, to turn to me for help and leadership?  Yes.  I put their needs before my wants.  They are better off and have more coping mechanisms to deal with the crazy things life throws at them.  I have had to reshape manners sometimes, so that others could enjoy someone's company instead of being repulsed. 

I forced her to wear diapers for about a year, and to set down those blue absorbent pads as back up.  Until her doctors got her bladder problem under control.  By that time, she had pissed buckets full all over all her friends' and family's furniture, and all over seats of cars until I was the only one left willing to take her anywhere.  When eating at restaurants, she would stuff an entire parkerhouse roll into her mouth, vomit up the contents of her stomach all over her plate and the table, smile and just keep on eating.  Even her father and siblings would not visit to take her out to eat anymore, nor invite her over for dinner.  I made very strict rules for her eating habits, was a natzi about it for over a year, and yes, took her out to restaurants every month as part of her training...and now her family and others can enjoy eating at the table with her.

Not everyone needs to be a professional to help people, some of it is just common sense or being used to tutoring small children.  If something is too big to handle, then someone who can help break it into small baby steps will make the journey easier to go through. 

I have also stepped in and helped other friends (survivors) through chemo and radiation, seeing to it they get the help they need even when it is driving them around to all the food banks or talking with the hospital's social worker.  I have even taken one out of her home for the day when things were getting very ugly, I need to calm her down so she wouldn't abandon her family (because of extreme stress, and they were unintentionally acting like asshats while she was fighting for her life and dealing with the side effects of chemo and radiation).  I loaned money I never got back, and also drove to the store to get meds she needed but could not afford the co-pay on, nor any of the necessary OTC.  She needed someone to lead and to watch over the best interests of herself and her family.  She is in remission now and her family is still intact...she is back to her old self and handles everything just fine on her own, but for about six months I took over...because she gave me this control.

Using D/s (not kink, I am talking about emotional/mental leadership...becoming someone's boss and manager) as a way to improve someone's life is done all the time by people who don't even have a name for it.  It can be good or bad depending on the people involved and the situation. 

"Do you think is unhealthy for the sub to want someone else to fix things or at least help or lead the way?"
Maybe, maybe not.  My family and friends are strong because we can lean on each other in times of trouble, even if it is leftover hurtful garbage from the past that needs to be dealt with. 

Sometimes I am on the receiving end.  This past month something happened with me that blew me out of the water.  I was virtually incapable of tying my own shoes until the shellshock wore off and I started to process things better.  It has taken me three or four weeks.  I turned to several friends here at CM...their phone calls...and even their basically telling me what to do to put one footstep in front of the other...was healthy and necessary.  I can lead myself now and I appreciate them all the more for stepping in when I needed them most.

There is a difference between someone needing to follow...for a while or for a lifetime...and someone who is an emotional "black hole" who wants to be dependent yet refuses to behave honorably.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i think it's normal to want support from your partner when you're making big changes. i think it's normal for partners to give each other advice, or helpful pushes... though meaningful change has to come from yourself at some point, otherwise you'll go back to the same behaviors and expect someone else down the line to clean that up, too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I have taken on submissives whose lives were messy and regretted it.


I'm not doing that again.