RapierFugue
Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
He doesn't understand empire. That's the old way, actually taking over and turning countries into vassal states. Two things, that changes their first language, then changes their currency, their trade, economy and eliminates their politics. The acquisition is complete top to bottom and all people are subject to the laws of the empire. The other...saves you the trouble and expense of importing them as slaves...they can be your slaves in their own country.
In this respect Britain led the way, once upon a time; we'd turn up with a technically advanced military, massacre "natives" into submission fairly easily, due generally to their main armoury being something along the lines of sharpened fruit, turn their old leaders (well, any we hadn't killed) into "our" leaders, get them to build roads and railways for us, opening up their country so we could nick all their good stuff. In return we'd give them a decent legal system and their own exhibition at the British Museum. It was a corker of a concept, from our POV at least.
It should be noted though that we got our arses comprehensively kicked in Afghanistan, as has everyone who's ever tried to capture and hold that area of the world. The locals are harder than coffin nails and fanatical to boot, the terrain is next to impossible to police from a military standpoint, the supply lines are terribly stretched, and the tribal & factional nature of the inhabitants means that there's no single socio-political "system" to do business with; as soon as you cut a deal with one lot, another lot are lable to win over the power base, and you've just wasted time, money, and soldiers.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Oh and as for the OP, we will have about 50,000 troops in Afghan FOREVER. The lines have been drawn for pipeline across Afghan. from the Caspian Sea (estimated oil & gas larger than Saudi) east.
I can't actually see that working out for the US, or anyone else. The Afghans bled the Russians white through a steady war of attrition, albeit that they were being supplied by the West, but even as we attempt the slowing (but not stopping) of arms into the country from traditional, Western routes, so the Taliban and the like will, and have, opened new ones to the east, and via Pakistan. Unless and until you've got both the Chinese on board, and Pakistan under some sort of control, it's not going to work out, and let's face it, the chances of those 2 nations playing ball are remote, to put it mildly.
On a list of "All Time Cluster Fuck Decisions By Leaders Who Should Have Known Better", George W's decision to go into Afghanistan is right up the with Hitler's Operation Barbarossa.
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RE: Lets Stay in Afganistan permanently - 
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