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We have a tendency to be barbaric and unconscious and not even realize it. A quick trip down through history proves this over and over again.

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And, just wondering - what do you guys think the purpose of prison is? I see it as a punishment for crime, but it seems that some see it as just a way to keep the criminal away from society as long as they are considered a danger to it.

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ORIGINAL: kinkbound

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And, just wondering - what do you guys think the purpose of prison is? I see it as a punishment for crime, but it seems that some see it as just a way to keep the criminal away from society as long as they are considered a danger to it.

In a saner society, the primary purpose would be rehabilitation. The automatic side benefit of rehabilitation is that it removes any threat to others, until if or when rehabilitation has been accomplished.

In a more intelligent and more sane society, every attempt would be made to create an environment that nurtures far less dysfunction of this horrific magnitude.

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ORIGINAL: Marini

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ORIGINAL: kinkbound

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And, just wondering - what do you guys think the purpose of prison is? I see it as a punishment for crime, but it seems that some see it as just a way to keep the criminal away from society as long as they are considered a danger to it.

In a saner society, the primary purpose would be rehabilitation. The automatic side benefit of rehabilitation is that it removes any threat to others, until if or when rehabilitation has been accomplished.

In a more intelligent and more sane society, every attempt would be made to create an environment that nurtures far less dysfunction of this horrific magnitude.

I think the question that has been raised:  "Is prison designed to punish or rehabilitate?", is a good one.
Perhaps that distinction should be made at sentencing, it is often clear when prisoners get the death sentence,
or a life sentence, or a life sentence plus 100 years {which is common}, that they are being sent to prison to be punished.
Perhaps, we need to have a two or three tier system?
The punishment track, the rehabilitation track and the could go either way track.
 
Another question could be, if someone has a life sentence, should they even be eligible for parole?
Or which prisoners that have been given  life sentences, should be eligible for parole?

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Mari, I'm going with the full quote here because I think that kinkbound's post ties into the whole thing.

kinkbound, you aren't a young man by any stretch of the imagination at 55, so I'm really curious as to how you can make the claim that a "saner" society would have prisons for rehabilitation. Do you have ANY idea what is involved in rehabilitation or what studies have shown about the potential for rehabilitation for certain types of criminals?

For instance, studies have shown that pedophiles can not be rehabilitated. There are, at times, ways to prevent them from being able to ACT on their urges, but they can not be rehabilitated.

Now let's move on to serial killers. You believe that we should attempt to rehabilitate them and re-release them into society at large? It isn't quite that simple and I find it amazing that someone of your age should be so naive about the reality of such situations.

Charles Manson can not be rehabilitated. Anyone who has seen interviews of him over the years can tell you that. Any lay person can see the man is totally beyond rehabilitation.

Now Mari, back to what you were saying, the prison system as it currently exists does kind of have that "tier" system you talk about. Minimum/maximum security works pretty much the way you describe. The really violent offenders and people who are habitual re offenders end up in Maximum security, where rehabilitation isn't something that anyone is looking to do. Then you move to the lower security facilities, and inmates are taught trades, given an education, etc. all to help make them better able to function in society. In some prisons, the inmates have begun training service dogs for the disabled, and the program has seen much success. So has equine therapy. But these programs are designed for inmates that have the POTENTIAL for rehabilitation.

Most people talk about overhauling the prison system and the justice system without really having a concept of how it works. They just have an idea of how they think things should work without thinking about what reality is.

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ORIGINAL: kinkbound

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Mari, I'm going with the full quote here because I think that kinkbound's post ties into the whole thing.

kinkbound, you aren't a young man by any stretch of the imagination at 55, so I'm really curious as to how you can make the claim that a "saner" society would have prisons for rehabilitation. Do you have ANY idea what is involved in rehabilitation or what studies have shown about the potential for rehabilitation for certain types of criminals?

For instance, studies have shown that pedophiles can not be rehabilitated. There are, at times, ways to prevent them from being able to ACT on their urges, but they can not be rehabilitated.

Now let's move on to serial killers. You believe that we should attempt to rehabilitate them and re-release them into society at large? It isn't quite that simple and I find it amazing that someone of your age should be so naive about the reality of such situations.

Charles Manson can not be rehabilitated. Anyone who has seen interviews of him over the years can tell you that. Any lay person can see the man is totally beyond rehabilitation.

Now Mari, back to what you were saying, the prison system as it currently exists does kind of have that "tier" system you talk about. Minimum/maximum security works pretty much the way you describe. The really violent offenders and people who are habitual re offenders end up in Maximum security, where rehabilitation isn't something that anyone is looking to do. Then you move to the lower security facilities, and inmates are taught trades, given an education, etc. all to help make them better able to function in society. In some prisons, the inmates have begun training service dogs for the disabled, and the program has seen much success. So has equine therapy. But these programs are designed for inmates that have the POTENTIAL for rehabilitation.

Most people talk about overhauling the prison system and the justice system without really having a concept of how it works. They just have an idea of how they think things should work without thinking about what reality is.

And that's why I clearly suggested that the automatic side benefit of rehabilitation removes any threat to others, until if or when rehabilitation has been accomplished. Rehabilitation efforts should continue until either rehabilitation or death occurs. In cases of rebellious rejection by the prisoner, keep the offer of rehabilitation efforts on the table until he's ready to cooperate. In the meantime, he's off the streets and no threat to the citizenry.

Throwing violent offenders in cages with other violent offenders will not produce an effective environment for rehabilitation, of course.

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Throwing violent offenders in cages with other violent offenders will not produce an effective environment for rehabilitation, of course.

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Once again, there is no such thing as rehabilation. Someone who commits a crime due to poverty or other extreme duress isnt "rehabilitated", just because he doesnt repeat the crime because hes never in that situation again. Thats removing the motivation for crime, not changing the person. give them 50k a year to live on and they'll stay out of jail. Thats not rehabilitation.

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Likewise an addict who commits a crime to feed his habit. His addiction can be overcome, but that is rehab from the addiction, not from being an antisocial fuck who thinks his needs trump societies. If he falls off the wagon or faces some other hardship, he'll commit another crime without a second thought.

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Can they be rehabilitated and released without ever being a danger to society again? Possibly and maybe probably. I don't know and don't care. At the least, they deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison, as a punishment for committing such a brutal act and causing the pain they caused to so many.

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ORIGINAL: kinkbound

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Can they be rehabilitated and released without ever being a danger to society again? Possibly and maybe probably. I don't know and don't care. At the least, they deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison, as a punishment for committing such a brutal act and causing the pain they caused to so many.

Then you clearly believe that the primary purpose of prison should be punishment. You're entitled to your opinion, regardless of whether it is based primarily upon logic or emotion. In light of your horrific personal experience, I doubt many would blame you for feeling as you do.

One thing I do know: I'm in a very different headspace today than I was 30 or 40 years ago. I'm a different man today, and I would hope not to be judged by who I was back then.