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RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 7:26:33 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Even cuter is laurell's profile opening. You folks have such feelings of security and comfortableness in your relationship that you ought to be role models for every sub who thinks being ignored and made miserable is how a power relationship ought to be.



Wow thanks! I'll pass on any role model thing though...I just want us both to be happy.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 6/27/2010 7:27:29 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 7:42:05 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		~FR!

Yeah, we do tend to be bitchy around here... and that is ALL of us, not just the femdoms!

I am one who certainly expects submissives/bottoms to have their own toys, should they so choose. DEFINITELY if they have HepC or something bloodborne.

I will even say that I will be fine with the guy into chastity who BUYS the chastity device and works with the damn thing.

The strap on? THE HARNESS? Criminy. If me and the mister are cruising the blowfish.com site, or some such, and I say, wow, I would love to try that, or my friend C just got that and she loves it... I would be thrilled if it showed up in my mailbox that week. If HE said, oh, I saw those pics with C... same story! Because I am cool with MOST new things, and insertables are personal.

If a TOTAL STRANGER buys me a dildo? That is saying, Hey, fuck me, bitch! And this harness was the cheapest one, so I got it, hope it works out for ya. That takes some serious nerve. No matter how interested in a sub I might be, I am not fucking him in the ass on the first date. Just. Not. Happening. Buying something like that is really an act of utter self interest, not a nice gesture.



_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 7:43:37 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Yes, we collectively on CM jump to conclusions about posters all the time with very little information. However, they're adults on a bdsm site. If they cannot say...wait...that's not true, this is what is true, then I question their ability to gain anything from what we would have said anyway.

I didn't read the entire thread you're talking about, I'm responding in general. It's a nice sentiment to want to hold the hands of new people, it's also unlikely and possibly not even helpful in the long run. Consider again where you.


On this side of CM, I completely agree that we can't be constant handholders. However, I'm talking about the other side. Where communication is started, and the two people begin to talk getting to know each other. When one is new and and begins talking about things they enjoy or would like to do or have in a relationship, we are seeing posts on this side that they are automatically a "do me sub" or topping from the bottom. In reality they are trying to find that common ground, they are trying to communicate (which is repeated over and over on this side). It seems there are more female dominants complaining about such things, although I know I have spoken with male doms that have responded that way as well, just not nearly as frequently.

We are all in this because of the enjoyment we get from it, whichever side we are on. Many of us are also looking for long term, loving relationships. On this side of CM, we have a lot of male subs who are intelligent, witty and from what they write well worth a domme's time. Sure, most of them are experienced, but even given that, they questioned the logic on things being in a toy bag.

The point is where is the sense in starting a conversation with a dominant, male or female, and telling them you enjoy x, y, or z and getting a response that you are topping from the bottom or worse yet (and yes, female dommes have made these statements on this side) that it doesn't matter if you like x, y, or z because she is going to do whatever she wants and he needs to stop topping from the bottom.

Yes, some get off on the "on your knees bitch" mentality, although from what I have seen, that is AFTER they have gotten to know someone and become involved. I have yet to hear from one person who found that to be an acceptable opening line.

Relationships, even in the BDSM world are about two (or more if poly) people. When a dominant, male or female jumps right into the whole control thing before they have even exchanged more than a couple of words, I don't wonder why they are still looking. Yes, as a dominant, one wants respect, but they still need to earn it, not attempt to get it by barking nonsense about how they are in control as I saw in the other post (and many other posts as well).

Both men and women are guilty of doing these things, but it seems that far fewer men who do it spend much time on the boards than the women who do.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 7:51:23 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I am not one of those doms who says it's all about what she wants. But, it IS about what we agree on. I am a SADIST. I can play at a midrange level, but if a person wants fluffy sensuality to me that means... well, it means that they need SOMEONE ELSE. If they want crossdressing, toilet slavery, etc, DITTO.

There are a lot of males out there who are very very persistent in asking for what THEY want, regardless of what they hear. I NEVER use the phrase "topping from the bottom", but I have used the phrase "selfish pest"!

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 7:52:13 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Is that really being dominant? Even as a sub, when I was looking, if someone hit my mailbox instantly talking about sex, it wasn't someone I had any interest in.

I agree it happens here. I'm sure it happens there. Hell people on the boards try to infer all kinds of things based on role all the time. I don't really like the term "topping from the bottom" it seems to be a catchall excuse used by many to be lazy communicators in my opinion. I agree there's no need to use the term with someone that you aren't in a dynamic with. The simple answer on the other side, is not so simple here. They aren't for you, keep looking. Here? Don't agree...I guess. I do get your point, I'm just not sure it's going to change.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 7:53:36 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

If a TOTAL STRANGER buys me a dildo? That is saying, Hey, fuck me, bitch! And this harness was the cheapest one, so I got it, hope it works out for ya. That takes some serious nerve. No matter how interested in a sub I might be, I am not fucking him in the ass on the first date. Just. Not. Happening. Buying something like that is really an act of utter self interest, not a nice gesture.




For the third time, having now gained some understanding of the various issues women have with what they desire in a harness, I completely understand that.

Bringing a toy on a first "date" that was not to involve play, I completely agree it is tasteless, and a really bad move.

But when you get to know that total stranger and he has a dildo? That isn't saying fuck me bitch, that's saying, I want to know my ass is the only one this dildo has been in, a safety issue.

And the major point is that it seems only the femdoms who take such issue with that dildo (forget about the harness, the harness is not the issue). Male dominants don't seem to have that same viewpoint (for the most part).

And again, if you are TALKING with someone and finding yourself genuinely interested and they mention they purchased something like this AND they have no experience, doesn't it make more sense to explain to him why the purchase is not a good idea than to simply dismiss him for an innocent mistake? Yes, there are tons of male subs out there, but also seems to be a lot of female dominants that say most of them ain't worth shit, so why quickly dismiss a newbie for a newbie mistake.

I'm not saying you as in you personally, but you as in general you. And I am talking about subs who lack experience, not guys who have been around for a while and should know better.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 7:59:53 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Is that really being dominant? Even as a sub, when I was looking, if someone hit my mailbox instantly talking about sex, it wasn't someone I had any interest in.

I agree it happens here. I'm sure it happens there. Hell people on the boards try to infer all kinds of things based on role all the time. I don't really like the term "topping from the bottom" it seems to be a catchall excuse used by many to be lazy communicators in my opinion. I agree there's no need to use the term with someone that you aren't in a dynamic with. The simple answer on the other side, is not so simple here. They aren't for you, keep looking. Here? Don't agree...I guess. I do get your point, I'm just not sure it's going to change.


I agree with you that it isn't likely to change. I guess my major point is that often those are the same people who don't understand why they don't get the "respect" they think they deserve and they can't seem to see that their own actions are what causes it.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 8:11:56 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Sorry, that's the danger of the fast reply, I miss the middle bits!!

I went and perved your profile, so am I right in that you haven't been topping a long time? Because I have. Decades Have Passed. For people like me, and many of my friends, the do-me male "submissive" so outnumbers the GENUINE (eep!~) male submissive, that it's almost too easy to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Me, I am always offering random advice, because I am Auntie. There's a local guy who blogs about his (spare me) buttplug training. I started writing to him in response to what HE wrote, offering the helpful hints about lube, and prostate irritation, and bless him he was all nice!! Not knowing that you really really should not wear the three inch plug ALL FREAKING DAY is an innocent newbie mistake. That his "mistress" should have told him about, but that's another story. He is enjoying himself tremendously, and that's the important part.

If a guy that I genuinely want to fuck already has a dildo, I am certainly going to check it out, and if it's appropriate, I will certainly use it! If it isn't, then we get to toy shop, and he gets the What Really Works lesson, based on my years of experience, and that of my friends. Just like if someone has a cheesy flogger, or whatever, I will show them what works, what I have, and how the dollar store is the festival of perversion. It's part of that whole passing it forward thing. Lots of mistakes are made in the name of enthusiasm, and that's not a big deal, just a waste of money sometimes.

MANY males get their knowledge of femdom from PORN,which involves giant strap on dildos, evidently. (No, I have never seen any femdom/malesub porn. That's okay, thanks!) For that reason, lots of men seem to think that "oral service", "queening", "smothering", and strap on play are par for the course and NOT SEX ACTS. I am NOT sorry that when someone comes on with that approach, or decides to be all sneaky and spring it on me after a few days, they are not accepted kindly. I am not a fucktoy. They get the lecture on what BDSM is NOT, and are advised to straighten up their act if they want my interest, or the interest of anyone worth their whip.





_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 8:28:43 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Sorry, that's the danger of the fast reply, I miss the middle bits!!

I went and perved your profile, so am I right in that you haven't been topping a long time? Because I have. Decades Have Passed. For people like me, and many of my friends, the do-me male "submissive" so outnumbers the GENUINE (eep!~) male submissive, that it's almost too easy to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Me, I am always offering random advice, because I am Auntie. There's a local guy who blogs about his (spare me) buttplug training. I started writing to him in response to what HE wrote, offering the helpful hints about lube, and prostate irritation, and bless him he was all nice!! Not knowing that you really really should not wear the three inch plug ALL FREAKING DAY is an innocent newbie mistake. That his "mistress" should have told him about, but that's another story. He is enjoying himself tremendously, and that's the important part.

If a guy that I genuinely want to fuck already has a dildo, I am certainly going to check it out, and if it's appropriate, I will certainly use it! If it isn't, then we get to toy shop, and he gets the What Really Works lesson, based on my years of experience, and that of my friends. Just like if someone has a cheesy flogger, or whatever, I will show them what works, what I have, and how the dollar store is the festival of perversion. It's part of that whole passing it forward thing. Lots of mistakes are made in the name of enthusiasm, and that's not a big deal, just a waste of money sometimes.

MANY males get their knowledge of femdom from PORN,which involves giant strap on dildos, evidently. (No, I have never seen any femdom/malesub porn. That's okay, thanks!) For that reason, lots of men seem to think that "oral service", "queening", "smothering", and strap on play are par for the course and NOT SEX ACTS. I am NOT sorry that when someone comes on with that approach, or decides to be all sneaky and spring it on me after a few days, they are not accepted kindly. I am not a fucktoy. They get the lecture on what BDSM is NOT, and are advised to straighten up their act if they want my interest, or the interest of anyone worth their whip.



No, topping is not a frequent thing for me, and I readily admit it.

Here's the thing though, the explanation you just gave about explaining and such is what makes sense to me. Of course you shouldn't be expected to be a fuck toy, but it is the fact that you take the time to lecture them and let them know if they wish to keep speaking with you they need to straighten up that, to me, makes you "respectable." If they don't straighten up, kick them to the curb, but I bet at least couple after their lecture learned from you and maybe even turned out ok.

I did also just perv your profile, only to sadly find out you are no where near me. I would love to learn how the dollar store is a festival of perversion!

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 8:48:00 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The point is that it seems that many of the dommes (typically the single ones) tend to talk as though whatever guy they get involved with should almost have no thoughts of his own. I know I'm not wording this as clearly as I would like, and I am sorry for that, but really, there were women over there who thought just the guy owning the toy bag was inappropriate. As I said, with all of the criteria involved in a harness, I understand the women's point of view in needing to have more say.


Here is the crux. There are women who want men with no thoughts of their own and there are men who don't want to do any thinking.

And then there are women who like thoughtful and proactive men and men who want to be thoughtful and proactive.

I like a proactive guy, but he has to be smart about what he's proactive about.

Take a Domme that is looking for a romantic relationship with a submissive man. The bottom line is that she want to build a relationship which will include D/s intimacy so if a guy is going to approach her with proactive "sex stuff", he's going to fail. Why? Because he's going to be just another guy who treats her like life support for his kink.

If he is just looking for a kinky exchange, then maybe there would be less issue, I'm not sure. Depends on the woman. Some will be offended, some won't. Finding out what the woman likes before getting her something might be a good idea.

quote:

However, if some poor guy is new to all of this, exactly what impression is he getting of female dominants who launch right into him topping from the bottom, questioning who is in control, calling him creepy, etc.


The only time I ever called people creeps is when they acted like one. Bottom line is that some messages are truly creepy. When it seemed someone was simply disillusioned, the best response I give is "no, thank you". If they ask why, I tried to point it out them. They usually don't get it right away and it will take time for them to figure it all out. In the past, when I was searching for a partner, this would be a very good indication right away that someone did not have the emotional maturity level to be with me.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 9:02:04 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		When I saw the thread heading, I immediately thought of Lane Austin's "Sense and Sensibility" Reading most of the replies, two things occur to me:

  1. The view of sense and sensibility can apply to Respect and Respectability. If you have both Sense (Common Sense) and the sensibility to assess both people and the situation without having knee jerk reactions, things can go fare smoother and keep a peaceful atmosphere.
  2. If you want Respect and rather than a futile demand for it, you need to give respect. 
There those who I dislike intently but have my respect for many things they do or what they are. To disrespect iuntelligently you first need to know and understand what they about and why they do the things which your dislike.  Just a thought is a vast ocean of thoughts floating bin cyberspace.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 11:29:58 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Here is the crux. There are women who want men with no thoughts of their own and there are men who don't want to do any thinking.

And then there are women who like thoughtful and proactive men and men who want to be thoughtful and proactive.

I like a proactive guy, but he has to be smart about what he's proactive about.


I would think that anyone who is looking for an actual relationship would prefer a guy who is at least a little proactive. Remember, though, I'm not talking about the guy who has lots of experience and who should know better. For those, I think that they deserve the response they get.

quote:


Take a Domme that is looking for a romantic relationship with a submissive man. The bottom line is that she want to build a relationship which will include D/s intimacy so if a guy is going to approach her with proactive "sex stuff", he's going to fail. Why? Because he's going to be just another guy who treats her like life support for his kink.


Again, when searching for a relationship, things are different. I don't believe that the "sex stuff" should be an "opener" at any time, and typically, yes, those who do are looking for someone to be "life support for his kink."

However, when looking for a relationship that is going to involve kink, at some point the conversation about kink needs to occur. You (general you) could exchange 3-4 emails with a man talking about all the normal vanilla stuff and really be hitting it off, but then when you get to the likes/dislikes in kink, you can find yourselves so far apart that it will never work, not because he is looking for someone to be life support for his kink, but because your kinks are just too vastly different. He shouldn't expect you to give up your "must haves," but at the same time, you shouldn't expect him to give up his either. At that point you reach the inevitable, "I'm sorry we just won't be compatible" talk.

What I AM talking about though is the guy that you have those 3-4 (or however many you want or need) emails and there seems to be some chemistry. You also know he is brand spanking new to BDSM and has never had a real life experience, not even with a pro. Personally, I don't like the brand spanking new inexperienced, and I don't know if you do, but for the sake of this discussion, let's say you do. So in your vanilla conversations, you are feeling some chemistry, some sparks. Then he mentions that he purchased something or is REALLY interested in a particular thing. Remember he is brand new, no experience.

At that point, is it really wise, and even in YOUR best interest to say "no thank you," or to explain to him because you ARE experienced that his purchase was inappropriate because.....or explain that while he may be really interested in "x" as the sub, you would take that into consideration (should the relationship progress) but that as the dominant you would decide when and if "x" would happen?

Because I do read how difficult the dommes are finding it to find someone who is going to be a good fit. So to me it makes no sense if you are talking to someone inexperienced, you had the non kink talks that went great, you feel the spark, the chemistry, but he made a "newbie" mistake, to dismiss him on that alone without at least trying to explain. If you explain and he gets pissy, the hell with him. But if you explain and he listens and makes every effort to correct it, if you were to dismiss on something so silly, you could be dismissing someone who would be a great partner, he just doesn't have the knowledge yet.

quote:


If he is just looking for a kinky exchange, then maybe there would be less issue, I'm not sure. Depends on the woman. Some will be offended, some won't. Finding out what the woman likes before getting her something might be a good idea.


Now in the case of simply a "play partner" with no strings attached, that whole thing changes, in my opinion, because no relationship is sought. At the same time though, I do see (with both men and women) that a few too many dominants aren't the least bit interested in the interests of the submissive, taking the attitude of "I'm in charge, I don't care what you want, you exist for my fun." Now that is fine plot for a scene, but if the submissive isn't getting anything out of the exchange, why bother?

In any case, that wasn't the type of situation I was talking about. I was referring to the former, two people searching for a relationship. I, personally view those two situations very very differently.

quote:

The only time I ever called people creeps is when they acted like one. Bottom line is that some messages are truly creepy. When it seemed someone was simply disillusioned, the best response I give is "no, thank you". If they ask why, I tried to point it out them. They usually don't get it right away and it will take time for them to figure it all out. In the past, when I was searching for a partner, this would be a very good indication right away that someone did not have the emotional maturity level to be with me.

- LA


No doubt, some "opening/introductory" messages are beyond creepy. Some are so completely bizarre, sick, shocking, tjat if you didn't realize the idiot was serious you would find it funny. But again, I'm not talking about those situation either. Although didn't someone recently start a thread on the weirdest introduction letters they had ever received? I seem to remember reading something like that and having to keep picking my jaw up off the desk at the oddness of them.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 11:32:05 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		LL, I do get (I think) what you are trying to say.  I do find it a bit ironic that, even though I didn't post it, on My end of the screen, that was the exact question that I had thought of posting on the harness thread.  How many of you have bought a strap on to be familiar with these things?  Let's face it.  Even kinky folks who are perfectly aware of the strap on kink that don't participate in it themselves, may not know why this is such a personal item and why women have various preferences about it.  Now that the thread is up to 100 or so responses, I'm betting (I haven't caught up with it yet) some of that information came out.

Now, I will readily admit that I take personal issue with males who automatically think that I'm going to want to have sex with them because I'm involved in BDSM.  Sexual acts, that includes strap on play, queening, or any other form of physical sex, are forms of intimacy.  A few days ago, there was what turned out to be a damn funny thread going on around here because one member of the forums thought he had what it took to sleep with Me without even knowing Me.  The people who know Me in real life couldn't help but laugh about it because they already knew that soooooo wasn't happening in My world.  It would seem silly to Me to have to explain that and 'educate the new' to the fact that maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be an automatic assumption that I'm going to want to have sex.

I actually do want people to have their own toys for their own safety.  I don't have anything against anyone who wants to purchase their own insertables with this in mind.  My hang up is making that leap that I'm going to want to do that with him before he even says hello to Me. 

I also don't think that anybody should wait to educate themselves on some matters before I ever come along.  Sure, if a sub gets involved with Me as more than a play partner, he's going to have to learn the particulars about serving Me because I'm a person and there's no way he can know how I like My breakfast.  Still, there is so much out there that he could be learning if he has the initiative and desire to do so.  Even in your own example, you learned more about the difference in harnesses because you read the comments from real people who have experience in the matter.  I don't think that's a lot to ask for from someone.  To have the drive to learn rather than wait for Me to show up and teach everything.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 11:35:45 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

When I saw the thread heading, I immediately thought of Lane Austin's "Sense and Sensibility" Reading most of the replies, two things occur to me:

  1. The view of sense and sensibility can apply to Respect and Respectability. If you have both Sense (Common Sense) and the sensibility to assess both people and the situation without having knee jerk reactions, things can go fare smoother and keep a peaceful atmosphere.
  2. If you want Respect and rather than a futile demand for it, you need to give respect.
There those who I dislike intently but have my respect for many things they do or what they are. To disrespect iuntelligently you first need to know and understand what they about and why they do the things which your dislike.  Just a thought is a vast ocean of thoughts floating bin cyberspace.



Why am I not surprised that you are able to get exactly what I mean? It's those knee jerk reactions to innocent mistakes that I find so odd.

I swear that if I ever am able to make a trip to Australia, I would love to sit and have a beer with you and just chat about all you have seen and done in life. I've no doubt it would be one of the most interesting things I got to do in my life.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/27/2010 11:45:26 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		LP,

Yes, you get exactly what I'm saying. I never meant the idiots who open with "will you fuck me with this strap on I just bought." They deserve all the venom that comes their way.

Because I don't do strap on, I did think they were pretty much all the same. I now know different.

But I will never understand why anyone needs to spew venom when it isn't the "opener" but comes when the time to discuss the kink is approached. No one knows everything, and when it is someone new, neither knows anything at all. I'm sure the venom spewers think I'm naive to believe that it can be politely explained and only go downhill when the person doesn't seem to want to listen.

I don't know you all that well, but even I am laughing my ass off that anyone was enough of an idiot to send you an initial email saying they had what it would take to have sex with you.

You and I have both questioned many times why people seem to think that just because we are kinky, we have no values or morals. I keep waiting for that not to be baffling to me, but it still is.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/28/2010 3:03:39 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		About the strapon harness being such a personal thing to wear... most of them come in a sealed box... it is not like you can actually try them on for size in the shop you know...  the more expensive ones have softer leather and better adjustable belts, but most of them... even the expensive ones still are pretty simplistic made... nothing much to them... not very special.

also collars are just as personal an item to wear but i betcha many people of a certain inclination who have not had the opportunity to collar one have nevertheless a collar and a lead in their possession.

having a strapon in your possession before meeting your mistress does not equate to a vanilla man buying sexy underwear for a prospective partner... as only a KINKY man would do that... which is the whole point...to buy sextoys is kinky...we are on a kinky site... presumably looking for kinky partners... wtf?

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/28/2010 5:01:51 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		In response to the OP, I'm not sure that there -is- a difference between the "on your knees" male dominant individual and the "on your knees and send me tribute" female dominant individual. That being said, the reality is that dominant individuals are inclined to lead, and want to know that the people who are coming into their universe in the guise of submission to that leadership really -are- ready to follow. Some dominant individuals have a much greater need for their "followers" to be -absolute followers- than others do... like anything else, it is a spectrum.

I discount the idea that every "kneel before me" dominant is just a HNG, player, or inexperienced, whether male or female. Especially for those who are accustomed to uncommitted fetish play (dungeons, etc.), those behaviors are, essentially, a common part of the "bdsm play" scene, and many people who do public/club play actually tend to be pretty comfortable with the immediate expression of the dynamic. Under the right circumstances, it can be pretty hot. That being said, I have to say that most of the people I've encountered on CM are -much- more oriented to the "kinky dating" model. They're looking for romance... looking to be wooed... looking for mates and life-partners. For the most part, they're not looking for casual play partners, and the attitude here concerning what is "appropriate" for first encounters reflects that pretty heavily.

It's true, I think, that people who are new coming into the experience tend to be more stereotypical in their behaviors. However, those stereotypes were -shaped- from experienced people who behaved that way with success... so the newcomer who plays the "kneel to me" card has, from hir experience,  seen that that is the way things are done because the commonly portrayed stereotypes everywhere they've seen them behave that way... and really, a not-insignificant number of those folks do manage to learn, over time, how to just be themselves and portray their dominance in ways that are effective and pleasing for them and those who choose them -. For some of them -- especially the ones who are heavily committed to the stereotypical end of the spectrum, that may actually mean that, after -years- of experience and time around, they are -still- "kneel to me" dominant individuals (or "spank-my-butt and send me home" submissive individuals). For the ones who don't learn and who are looking for partners who won't respond to whatever the "inappropriate behavior of the day" issue is by changing that behavior, they find themselves ostracized and shut out. I think, though, that it is a mistake to make sweeping assumptions about how and why people behave certain ways, and to presume that there is "one right way" to approach a submissive individual (or to approach a dominant individual), to react to a given set of choices, or to start off a conversation. Each of us has to find our own way, and, for me, if that means that a potential servant takes the initiative and buys a strap-on, because xhe's exited about the possibilities and that's one thing xhe wants to experience (with the understanding that what xhe got may not fit me and xhe may have to start over once I've explained it), I am not necessarily going to consider hir any "less" of a submissive individual for taking that piece of initiative. Again, YMMV.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 6/28/2010 5:07:45 AM >

_____________________________

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/28/2010 6:01:28 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

That takes some serious nerve.


is it nerve?.... or just desperation? I have found that desperation is not so uncommon by sides of the coin and sexes... particularly from those are new enough not to have learn from those mistakes out of desperation.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 6/28/2010 6:02:06 AM >

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/28/2010 6:07:45 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I NEVER use the phrase "topping from the bottom", but I have used the phrase "selfish pest"!


I call them the "Do ME" people! I have found them to be rather numerous on both sides of the sexes.... and both sides of the D/s coin as well.

It's one thing if one is just looking to hook up ... but if you looking to have a relationship... I have found that mindset to not be very effective.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Respect and Respectability - 6/28/2010 8:14:39 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I've done public, casual play, but I still wanted to get to know the person away from the dungeon first. If someone tried to do the "kneel bitch" routine without any negotiations, or groped me or tried to hit me when we hadn't talked yet, I'd either set him straight on dungeon manners, or bring it up to the organizer, depending on how badly they were acting.

LL, I think that some people are still assuming that the hypothetical submissive brought this up on the first couple of dates. If I'd been seeing someone for say a month or two, we'd done a little light play, the dynamic was in place, and we were interested in a relationship, then saying, "I've dreamed about being taken for years.I bought a strap-on at one point, but have never had anyone I felt comfortable with using it on me." I'd think it was rather sweet, rather than creepy. It's all about the context. I still might not feel ready to use it on him, and if I checked it out, and it was uncomfortable or poorly made, I might get a different one, or ask him to, just as if he'd brought a poorly-made flogger.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 40
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