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security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:24:17 AM   
KnightofMists


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Is it possible in a relationship? FAR more relationships fail that ever suceed or endure for any amount of significant time. I can count on my hand the number or relationship I know in this lifestyle that have last beyond 20 years and it doesn't change to much for 10 years. Seems that 3-5 years is the norm in most cases and these are individuals that been involved in the community for many years besides. Is security and trust really just a myth that we tell ourselves? Are we just fooling ourselves thinking we have security in our relationship or trust? Is it only a matter of time that ground will shake and the trust give will be betrayed?

If you say no..... then why? Is it just leap of faith.. or is there something more concrete than that? If you say yes.. then what is your relationships for? just good time? A place to get what you want while it lasts?

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.
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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:26:18 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		I dont think there is any more security or trust in a bdsm relation than any other human relation...........I am betting 3-5 is the sentence that is average for what we out here often refer to as vanilla as well.

A people and societal norm for americans, I think.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:29:04 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I dont think there is any more security or trust in a bdsm relation than any other human relation...........I am betting 3-5 is the sentence that is average for what we out here often refer to as vanilla as well.

A people and societal norm for americans, I think.



I am not saying there is more or less than vanilla relationships.. But, I am speaking and asking about these lifestyle relationships specifically.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:31:02 AM   
dwedeking


Posts: 13
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Status: offline 		I agree. No different than a vanilla relationship in the probability of survival and the reasons for why it doesn't survive.

Trust and communication are key to any relationship and once damaged it can be hard to recover, whether your into kink or not.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:31:10 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
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Status: offline 		I was going to say roughly the same thing. I can probably count on one hand the number of vanilla relationships that I know that have lasted past the 20 year mark too. I do believe that trust and security can exist. I guess I am ahead of the curve though because my relationships have generally lasted far longer than 3 to 5 years. I don't however, necessarily believe in the "one"...as in someone you will be with for your entire lifetime. I think that we are in relationships generally as long as they continue to fulfill our needs and are right for us for that timeframe, whatever that may be. Of course I do hope that the relationship that I am in will be the one to carry me through the rest of my days, but I also realize that there are variables that I cannot forsee or have any degree of control over.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:31:21 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Is security and trust really just a myth that we tell ourselves?


No, it's not a myth; however it is often misplaced.

People tend to seek trust and security in someone else; however they don't come into the relationship with similar security and trust in themselves. If you don't have the confidence and are not self assured - relationship failure often results.

Not knowing who you are and what you want, is more disastrous to a relationship than not knowing the same information about your partner. The only thing worse is knowing and banking success on changing either yourself or your partner.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:35:26 AM   
leadership527


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Status: offline 		No.

It's partly a leap of faith and partly common sense. I don't know about everyone else, but my crystal ball is out of order. That means that for me, the future is uncertain. All I have is my intent and Carol's intent.

Put slightly differently, I'm damned sure not going to start out with the assumption of failure. That's a really good way to ensure it fails.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:36:05 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		but it is usually not a matter in any one of these relations of some security dropping thru the hole or some trust being vastly betrayed, moreso; a series of small injuries to the self.  I have told her a million times to not buy that shit, we dont need any more, I have told him how desperately I need him to listen to me tell him about my crocheting abilities.......

We become bored and fed up with the small, everyday, mundane life.......no longer any shiney pennies to find 

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:36:51 AM   
dwedeking


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Status: offline 		I don't think you can look towards a kink relationship to overcome the general trend towards shorter term relationships. There is no guarantee of security in any relationship. It's something you have to renew constantly (learned through the school of hard knocks) if your going to make it work.

Just ancedotial (sp?) (not scientific) but 10 years seems to be a magic number in marriages/relationships. People can change a lot over 10 years and if your not constantly re-evaluating where your at as a couple you could wake up one day a realize that the two people are no where near each other (mentally/emotionally)

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:37:56 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Is security and trust really just a myth that we tell ourselves?


No, it's not a myth; however it is often misplaced.

People tend to seek trust and security in someone else; however they don't come into the relationship with similar security and trust in themselves. If you don't have the confidence and are not self assured - relationship failure often results.

Not knowing who you are and what you want, is more disastrous to a relationship than not knowing the same information about your partner. The only thing worse is knowing and banking success on changing either yourself or your partner.



So are you saying that it is often missed placed because of one's own lack of confidence? But does one need to have confidence to get there needs and wants met? Can it be like Erin states... the relationship lasts untill the needs and wants are being satisfied and when that is no longer the case it dies. Is security and trust needed to get the needs and wants satisfied?

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:41:11 AM   
sexyred1


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Status: offline 		I think MercnBeth said it best; if you do not know yourself and what you need or dislike yourself, any relationship you are in will fail. I don't think there is a magic number of years to a successful relationship or when one will fail.

I personally know happy couples who have been together for 20 or more years and I also know couples who break up at the drop of hat.

We are a very disposable relationship society. People expect instant gratification and when they don't get it, they look elsewhere. No one expects to have to actually do work to keep a relationship fresh and smooth. People don't realize that all relationships have peaks and valleys and just because you fell into a valley for a few days, does not mean you will not scale the heights of peak ecstasy with some patience. It takes a rhythm to be in a relationship; the notes don't have to be the same every day.

I think I have used enough metaphors now. :)

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:44:50 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dwedeking

I don't think you can look towards a kink relationship to overcome the general trend towards shorter term relationships. There is no guarantee of security in any relationship. It's something you have to renew constantly (learned through the school of hard knocks) if your going to make it work.



I don't recall caring or making note of overcoming some sort of trend only the existence of it in the specific lifestyle we are a part of.


quote:


Just ancedotial (sp?) (not scientific) but 10 years seems to be a magic number in marriages/relationships. People can change a lot over 10 years and if your not constantly re-evaluating where your at as a couple you could wake up one day a realize that the two people are no where near each other (mentally/emotionally)


It would appear so... but I think alot of that depends on a person's stage of life. I know that the first 10 years of my life with Alandra has changed much more rapidly than these past 10 years. Just for the record, Alandra and I have been together some 23 years. It also interesting to note that with Kyra who has been in our life some 5 years, we have not experience the degree of change in the first 15 years. In fact.. as I get older.. change seems to be less not more in our relationships.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:46:36 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I don't understand why it would be different for kinky folks as non kinky folks.

I do have to wonder what is up with this new trend of setting the new "failure" rate at 3-5 years.  For a while there, nobody would consider anything that someone had to say if their dynamic hadn't hit the two year mark.  You weren't considered in a 'committed' dynamic unless you hit three.  Now, if you don't hit at least five, you're still in the 'potential failure' zone.

I'm 41 years old.  The only way for Me to achieve a 20 successful relationship by this point in My life would be if I had married My high school sweetheart.  I didn't do that.  I guess I'll wait the additional 12 years it will take for Me to hit 20 with MP and 17 more with clip before I can enter these discussions.


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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:50:07 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I think MercnBeth said it best; if you do not know yourself and what you need or dislike yourself, any relationship you are in will fail. I don't think there is a magic number of years to a successful relationship or when one will fail.


I agree that Merc's comments was right on point... and something I agree with. I would also stated that number of years is a rather subject valuation of success on a relationship that I don't particularly agree with. Alandra, Kyra and I have been together just over 5 years and frankly we feel more successful with that than the 20 plus years that Alandra and I been together.

quote:


I personally know happy couples who have been together for 20 or more years and I also know couples who break up at the drop of hat.

We are a very disposable relationship society. People expect instant gratification and when they don't get it, they look elsewhere. No one expects to have to actually do work to keep a relationship fresh and smooth. People don't realize that all relationships have peaks and valleys and just because you fell into a valley for a few days, does not mean you will not scale the heights of peak ecstasy with some patience. It takes a rhythm to be in a relationship; the notes don't have to be the same every day.

I think I have used enough metaphors now. :)


disposable and instant... are two words that jump out at me. In other words... are we a very selfish and me society? Are we becoming worse as time goes on in this regard? is that attitude contrary to building security and trust but maybe not towards getting ones needs and wants met?


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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:51:47 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Not all relationships end because of betrayal.

I have had them end over someone wanting kids while I did not. Sometimes people change but are mature enough to say "hey, sweetie this isn't working for me anymore".

Sometimes they just die a quiet death and neither party even morn their passing.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:53:02 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

Can it be like Erin states... the relationship lasts untill the needs and wants are being satisfied and when that is no longer the case it dies.


I'd just like to clarify and say that it doesn't necessarily have to be the fault of anyone, sometimes it's that the people change therefore their needs and wants change.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 11:54:54 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Put slightly differently, I'm damned sure not going to start out with the assumption of failure. That's a really good way to ensure it fails.



good point.. doesn't make much sense to start with the assumption of failure... so... an assumption of success?... but then what is success? In fact.. what is failure? If one goes with the objective valuation of time... it's easily valued. But yet.. time doesn't reflect those subjective valuations of needs and wants being met.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 12:01:15 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I will also agree with the fact that your needs change more rapidly when young, when still learning about yourself than they do for us older folks. I don't expect most high school romances to last 50 years successfully. And I don't consider my grandparents who stayed married but had a terrible relationship to be an example of success.

Perhaps this is seen more in kink venues simply because as you near 50 or 60 you are less likely to be going out at night? Night driving is a problem for most of my friends, and we have minor children and elderly parents. Therefore perhaps the demographics of the kink scene is skewed towards the under 40's?


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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 12:05:07 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
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Status: offline 		I think that many people involved in BDSM are selfish. They are often more focused on getting their personal kink needs met than they are in building a relationship.

KoM, I think the core of your success is your focus. So many times I have seen you write that the three of you serve your relationship. I believe that is rare.

All of that said, I believe that is a reflection of all relationships. That 'what's in it for me?' mindset.

I am weird in that I would rather a relationship evolve and change than end..............if at all possible.


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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 12:05:20 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
People tend to seek trust and security in someone else; however they don't come into the relationship with similar security and trust in themselves. If you don't have the confidence and are not self assured - relationship failure often results.

I agree with this. If you don't have the courage of your convictions and the confidence in yourself that you can make it happen, then it won't. In my experience, this applies to pretty much any difficult thing in life. Carol and I both went into this marriage with the intent and conviction that we would make it work. That, in and of itself, is not sufficient... but it's a damned good start.

quote:

Not knowing who you are and what you want, is more disastrous to a relationship than not knowing the same information about your partner.

This one though I do not agree with... or at least it doesn't match my own personal experience. Life is full of change. Who I am now is way different than who I was 15 years ago. How can I EVER know who I am or what I want when that is a moving target. God knows I didn't want slave 15 years ago. Carol and I are both vastly different beings from who we were a decade and a half ago.

This is why I often say that compatibility is not a state, it's a state of mind. Carol and I started out with some compatibility, obviously, or we would not have gotten together. But we have clearly gotten WAY more compatible as the years have gone on. That's because both of us value being compatible more than just about anything else. Accordingly, when one of us has zigged or zagged, the other goes with. Our paths have gotten ever closer over the years.

And for those who are interested, I found this


< Message edited by leadership527 -- 6/21/2010 12:11:11 PM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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