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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 5:09:25 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

But does one need to have confidence to get there needs and wants met?

You don't need confidence to get your needs met - you need confidence, secure confidence, to know what your needs ARE. Sometimes, and not as a result of a deliberate act by a relationship partner, getting them met never happens. Sometimes they physically can not happen through any direct effort by your relationship partner. Self confidence is essential to recognize those instances in order to nakedly expose them to your relationship partner.

I pull this out from your post in particular not to discount the rest. but for me this point I find intriguing and bold the point that really hits home and want to restate it so it isn't lost in alot of great points by many people. I wonder what other believe.. but I for one agree that confidence in self is a key to building the fulfilment of those needs and wants. I have to say that a lack of confidence and low self esteem could and would cause a person to settle for less even if they happen to know what they need or want.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 5:14:55 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

I feel a bit of sadness on behalf of anyone who views relationships in a myopic "success/failure" model. I look back over my life and recall with pleasure the rich memories of the relationships I have had. Using your yardstick I would be an utter failure.

I don't discount that you have a valid point. I am sure many can reflect on rich memories of past relationships. But... do you live in the past? What about now? How do you believe a relationship should be viewed? Is it only a transitory experience to get what one can for as long as it lasts? Is it something else?

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 5:18:44 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublizzie

I think a long-term relationship is more than security and trust. I believe it is about the partners in that relationship being actively involved in working ON that relationship. Security and trust are there, of course, but it's the active work by the ones in the relationship to keep that relationship going that makes it work.

Security and trust is a result of efforts put into a relationship. .. Not the only result I am sure. It seems the desire to want the relationship can have all sorts of postive effects.

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 7:45:44 PM

LadyHibiscus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25

In my opinion, relationships that fail were more often than not entered into for the wrong reasons to begin with. This applies to the vanilla relationships as much as it does to relationships in the lifestyle.

In other words, if your interest in someone (or someone's interest in you) is based on superficial grounds (e.g., their level of attractiveness, what they can "provide" to you), then it shouldn't surprise you when things fall apart. You shouldn't be in a relationship with someone because the person "turns you on," because you "worship" the person, because the person is "very intelligent," or because the person entertains you.

In terms of building trust and security within a relationship, there's no secret formula for that either. It takes time, patience, and an openness on both sides. Too often people jump into things without asking the right questions first.

Excellent points---and tying in to my post, too. After that honeymoon period is over and the human masks are tossed aside, we find that we don't always LIKE the strangers we are partnered with. And why go to the wall for someone that you don't like?

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RE: security and trust - 6/21/2010 7:53:42 PM

NuevaVida

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There are a lot of good and interesting points in this thread, which have sparked some thoughts in me. Some of these have already been stated here, but I'll go for it anyway.

First, I don't believe the duration of a relationship denotes its success. If that's the case, entering the 20th year of my marriage would have been seen a success. It was not. It was my own failure to have let it continue so long. Sometimes "we didn't get divorced" isn't a good enough reason.

I do like what Merc said, about knowing oneself and having confidence in oneself. I think when people have a healthy self confidence, there is a less likely chance of co-dependence, and less drama occurs when needs aren't met. There is a risk to relying on someone else for identity and/or self image, versus if one enters a relationship with self knowledge and self confidence.

As for why relationships fail, I am a believer in "The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse", with regard to marriage/relationships:

Criticism
Contempt
Defensiveness
Stonewalling

No matter how much love, trust, respect, chemistry, things in comment, etc., may reside in a relationship, those Four Horsemen will break a relationship apart, and those in that relationship won't even understand what happened.

I am just a year into my relationship, and I came into it a much wiser and more self aware person than when I came from my last relationship. He and I have both decisively progressed forward very slowly, with communication doors wide open. We both have learned an incredible amount from our histories, and bring that knowledge together to create the healthy and loving relationship we both desire. We are both confident this will be our successful relationship, and are planning for that. But we also know our relationship is still extremely young, and because we value it and its possibilities, we will continue to move slowly and carefully.

Neither of us had this wisdom in earlier days, and our lack of our own self knowledge was the foundation for our previously failed relationships.

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RE: security and trust - 6/22/2010 7:34:56 AM

Andalusite

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I still trust all but one of my ex-boyfriends. They didn't betray me or treat me badly, things just didn't work out for other reasons. They're wonderful, intelligent, and caring people, who I've been blessed to have in my life. I do want a relationship that lasts a lifetime, but I don't view the relationships I've had so far as failures. I would never enter a relationship knowing that it was short-term, or knowing that the person didn't want to get married, or if he felt he was settling for me even though he wouldn't be able to be serious, or if I felt that way about him. Sometimes the emotions just don't develop, or reality interferes in some way, or people grow apart.

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RE: security and trust - 6/22/2010 7:49:28 AM

leadership527

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Thank you for mentioning that Andalusite. I was thinking the same thing. I myself have had a marriage end and it was not for any grandiose melodramatic reason. It was two competent, capable, alpha types... both of whom were very intent on making it work and both of whom were very used to succeeding at what they set their hand to. That means we were both more than a bit frustrated that we were not able to make it work. There were some subtle compatibility things that were obscured in the beginning but came out over time. Nobody was the bad guy. We both loved each other.

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RE: security and trust - 6/22/2010 11:13:45 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Is it possible in a relationship? FAR more relationships fail that ever suceed or endure for any amount of significant time. I can count on my hand the number or relationship I know in this lifestyle that have last beyond 20 years and it doesn't change to much for 10 years. Seems that 3-5 years is the norm in most cases and these are individuals that been involved in the community for many years besides. Is security and trust really just a myth that we tell ourselves? Are we just fooling ourselves thinking we have security in our relationship or trust? Is it only a matter of time that ground will shake and the trust give will be betrayed?

If you say no..... then why? Is it just leap of faith.. or is there something more concrete than that? If you say yes.. then what is your relationships for? just good time? A place to get what you want while it lasts?

I think there is a measure of security that we can obtain in our lives, however, if we examine below the surface of every relationship, and of life itself, it's pretty apparent that the whole concept of "security" as any kind of permanent state is a myth.

Trust, too, isn't something that is static and permanent. It requires continuous reinforcement, and is subject to occasional "slipped stitches", which we then must deal with in the best way we know how. In an ideal world, we'll be able to forgive, and eventually forget, provided that the party who slipped does what xhe says xhe's going to do for a period of time that is meaningful for the one who was slipped upon.

I think that it is very possible to have long, strong, healthy relationships that are secure because everyone involved in the relationship is honest and up-front about where xhe's at. I believe that it is possible to have -trust- in a relationship, but that it is a 'sliding scale' issue where trust takes time to be established, and failures of integrity require starting the building process all over again, hobbled by the philosophical equivalent of a bushel of bricks tied around one's neck... but for those who are willing to do the work, even in the face of such a burden, it -is- possible to restore a measure of trust that will, once again, expand over time.

I am honest with people that I am not looking for a "lifelong" relationship. I am fortunate that, because of my allegiance to our House, there are people around who -are- looking for those longer relationships--but all of our members know that I can be trusted, because I will not make a promise unless I know that I am in control of the circumstances that will allow me to fulfill it... and so, if I promise I will do something or be somewhere or act a certain way in certain circumstances, they know that I will. Keeper or servant, they know that I can be taken at my word -- in the loving things, the stern things, and the harsh things. That, IMO, is the reason that those in our household -do- feel secure, despite the reality that "security" is subject, always, to the whims of the Fates.

I've had relationships end, and have had that be a mutually beneficial thing for everyone involved. I've also had relationships end because it was the best thing for the group. In most of the cases, even when members of our household move on to other things, they are -still- family, and we share each others' nests -- and when that isn't the case, it is often due to a betrayal that was either repeated or so damaging to our house or one of its members that the removal of the damaging person(s) is a surgical excision to allow us to heal. I get along well with my exes, and that, in part, is because we strove to be honest with one another, and that, to me, is the key to trust, which is, in turn, the key to security.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 6/22/2010 11:17:24 AM >

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RE: security and trust - 6/22/2010 1:50:02 PM

cassandria

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"Love is a decision"

I think we decide, in our world today, to love those who meet our criteria. Unlike my grandparents' criteria, which was to struggle through their marriage at all costs, irregardless of personal happiness, unlike my parents who did the same, and were often extremely unhappy - and those around them suffered at times because of that, in both marriages - mine is to find a balance.

Commitment matters hugely within that balance, because whether it lasts forever (obviously it hasn't, since I'm single) or not, that commitment is still very important to me. It grounds me, gives me a sense of security. A collar around my neck binds me to the life of another person. That is my security.

In my perfect world, I would be bound to that of another for the rest of my life. Loving, laughing, growing together. I can see what is possible, and I want it. I want it badly. I feel like if I was given the opportunity, what wouldn't I give?

But I know that it takes two, and you have to have the same vision for what you want. And I think those visions change sometimes, and then you part ways. I hope that whatever future Master comes into my life, that his vision and mine are so intertwined, from the beginning, that it grows together. And continues that way.

I saw the graph that Jeff posted, and was curious about it...because I think that subsequent marriages (or more 'serious' commitment-based relationships) have a higher success rate than say, a marriage entered into as a young adult. The self-knowledge factor alone is significant, I would think. And I, too, would be *very* interested in seeing the rate of success within a bdsm committed relationship vs vanilla. I personally think they're probably similar, but I'd still love to see the data..

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